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Author Topic: Messerschmitt Me 309/509 Projects & Prototypes  (Read 11529 times)

Offline Wurger

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Messerschmitt Me 309/509 Projects & Prototypes
« on: November 07, 2008, 09:32:12 am »
hello :),

does anyone knows about other proposed Me309 versions? I post here the Me309Z/Me609( taken from "Geheimprojekte der Luftwaffe", volume 3, by Herwig/Rode ), a "zerstoerer" and high-speed bomber.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2016, 05:31:33 am by Skyblazer »

Offline toura

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2008, 09:45:38 am »
hello wurger
something at "www.luft 46.com
but certainly you know
bye

Offline Justo Miranda

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Offline Wurger

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2008, 02:49:18 pm »
Hi Toura :),

yes, I already knew it from Luft`46 site. Some months ago in "Le Fana de L`aviation" there were a full article on this interesting little fighter, who came close to series production, but no allusion to advanced versions.

Wow :o, I just saw what Justo have posted. A flush fuselage Me 309? What was its intended role? The text tells about another version. Can you please shed more on this, Justo? Thanks for sharing

Offline toura

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2008, 02:31:05 am »
hello Wurger.
I know the me 309 from V1 to V4
I know the flush fuselage only by the same source than you
and i've see about an other study, a Me 309 without tricycle undercarriage
and with winglet ????
Bye

Offline Wurger

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2008, 02:51:46 am »
Hi toura and Justo :),

any chance of posting images relating those projected "birds"? Cheers.

Offline toura

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2008, 05:42:10 am »
hello Wurger
I've no scanner but i've a photo !
If no answer, with your adress, Icould send you a copy
Bye

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2008, 07:16:56 am »
sorry unknown source ...

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2008, 07:55:23 am »
Found source as "Luftahrt-Lexicon 8140-100-2" pp 3983

Offline frank

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #9 on: November 08, 2008, 10:12:52 am »

    I suppose the Me 509 could be considered a mid-engined variant of the 309, couldn't it?
   


ote author=Wurger link=topic=5609.msg45013#msg45013 date=1226079132]
hello :),

does anyone knows about other proposed Me309 versions? I post here the Me309Z/Me609( taken from "Geheimprojekte der Luftwaffe", volume 3, by Herwig/Rode ), a "zerstoerer" and high-speed bomber.
[/quote]

Offline blackkite

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2016, 10:10:47 pm »
Hi! Me309V1 and V4.
Me309 had a retractable radiator and a pressurized cabin.

Me309 troubles were...
①Shimmy
②Over heat
③Landing was very hard.(rapid nose down at reverse propeller pitch when decrease landing speed)
④Require heavy force to move rudder
⑤Poor directional stability at take off run and high speed straight flight
⑥Poor maneuverability compared with Bf109G

This fighter seems to have been the airplane which doesn't become true at all.
What is the pod on the wing?
I can't find this pod in any picture.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_309

(cutaway was replaced with higher res version posted by johnbr)
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 09:26:21 am by Jemiba »

Offline blackkite

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Messerschmitt Me 309/509 Projects & Prototypes
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2016, 11:08:17 pm »
Hi Me509. Midship engine same as recent racing car!! Me509 looks like Keiun.
Radiator concept is same as Me309.
Me509 is good design except heavy weight long propeller shaft. So...

(a cut-away drawing can be found here https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,29902.msg242181.html#msg242181 )

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_509

« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 07:03:56 am by Jemiba »

Offline sienar

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309/509 Projects & Prototypes
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2016, 07:17:01 pm »
Didn't a good number of the lippisch designs occur without the knowledge of Willy himself?

And when some of these designs ended up in competition with his own he was furious?

Offline windswords

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309/509 Projects & Prototypes
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2016, 04:42:38 am »
Hi Me509. Midship engine same as recent racing car!! Me509 looks like Keiun.

As soon as I saw the images and before I read your saying it looks like the R2Y1 Keiun, I had the same thought exactly! A true example of the saying "form follows function".
Frank

Offline blackkite

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309/509 Projects & Prototypes
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2016, 04:12:16 pm »
Hi Me509. Midship engine same as recent racing car!! Me509 looks like Keiun.

As soon as I saw the images and before I read your saying it looks like the R2Y1 Keiun, I had the same thought exactly! A true example of the saying "form follows function".
Yes I think so. I also think that.....
Messerschmitt tried to develop Me509 fighter may be because Messerschmitt was estimating an achievement in the actual fighting of bell P-39 and P-63.
Specifications (as designed)
General characteristics
Crew: 1
Length: 9.94 m (32 ft 7 in)
Wingspan: 11.27 m (37 ft)
Height: 3.98 m (13 ft 1 in)
Powerplant: 1 × Daimler-Benz DB 605B, 1,085 kW (1,455 hp)
Performance
Maximum speed: 760 km/h (472 mph)
Armament
Guns: 2 × 13 mm (.51 in) MG 131 machine guns
2 × 20 mm MG 151/20 cannons

High speed fighter with pressurized cockpit!!
Perhaps Messerschmitt thought that this nose wheel landing system might be works well because of light nose weight.
Rerturn match of Me309 failure. ;D Some document says that Me509 was a delivative of Me309.
I feel that Me509's engine, propeller,radiator, spinner, wing, horizontal tail stabilizer and landing gear were almost same as Me309's one.
Any original drawing or document survived still now?

http://www.hyperscale.com/2013/galleries/me50948rs_1.htm
« Last Edit: January 29, 2016, 01:03:28 am by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2016, 06:28:57 pm »
Hi! No problem. ;)

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #16 on: May 23, 2016, 05:26:16 am »
There were two types of Me209 fighter.

Isn't this a topic about the Me 309? Don't we have a topic elsewhere on the Me 209 already? Just asking.

Offline hesham

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2016, 08:55:27 am »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #18 on: October 07, 2016, 09:01:22 am »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #20 on: October 07, 2016, 11:13:35 am »
I suppose  that Messerchmitt 309 was inspired by North American P-51 Mustang !
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Offline sienar

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #21 on: January 15, 2017, 12:17:54 pm »

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #22 on: September 11, 2017, 12:21:35 pm »
A very interesting article about the Messerschmitt Me 309 is published in the August 2017 issue of the German magazine Klassiker der Luftfahrt. IMHO some unseen new pictures of the the flight tests are featured in this article.
You can also buy and download the article at their website.
Link: http://www.klassiker-der-luftfahrt.de/geschichte/flugzeuge/messerschmitt-me-309-die-letzte-09/734200/paidattachment
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Offline sienar

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #23 on: October 09, 2017, 04:49:14 pm »
A very interesting article about the Messerschmitt Me 309 is published in the August 2017 issue of the German magazine Klassiker der Luftfahrt. IMHO some unseen new pictures of the the flight tests are featured in this article.
You can also buy and download the article at their website.
Link: http://www.klassiker-der-luftfahrt.de/geschichte/flugzeuge/messerschmitt-me-309-die-letzte-09/734200/paidattachment

Thanks for the recommendation. This issue includes and original drawing that appears to show the new sheet metal work required for the twin design.

Offline hesham

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2017, 05:14:54 am »
A very interesting article about the Messerschmitt Me 309 is published in the August 2017 issue of the German magazine Klassiker der Luftfahrt. IMHO some unseen new pictures of the the flight tests are featured in this article.
You can also buy and download the article at their website.
Link: http://www.klassiker-der-luftfahrt.de/geschichte/flugzeuge/messerschmitt-me-309-die-letzte-09/734200/paidattachment

Thanks for the recommendation. This issue includes and original drawing that appears to show the new sheet metal work required for the twin design.

As I expected and displayed before in anther topic,it was a real Project.

Offline sienar

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #25 on: December 12, 2017, 02:13:43 pm »
There was a swept wing derivative of the 309 that was expected to have a 30% increase in top speed. Work on this design was farmed out to Caudron, who also took over wind tunnel testing, in late 42.

Offline GTX

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #26 on: December 12, 2017, 02:17:39 pm »
There was a swept wing derivative of the 309 that was expected to have a 30% increase in top speed. Work on this design was farmed out to Caudron, who also took over wind tunnel testing, in late 42.

Anymore details?

Offline sienar

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #27 on: December 12, 2017, 04:02:06 pm »
Sorry, that's all Die Deutsche Luftfahrt; Willy Messerschmitt has to say about it

Offline sienar

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309 versions
« Reply #28 on: January 08, 2018, 10:32:16 pm »
Ejection seat for the 309v1

Source: Die Deutsche Luftfahrt; Willy Messerschmitt

Offline sgeorges4

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309/509 Projects & Prototypes
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2018, 04:41:14 am »
Any real document regarding the me 509?

Offline sienar

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Re: Messerschmitt Me 309/509 Projects & Prototypes
« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2018, 01:29:44 pm »
.