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Author Topic: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed  (Read 40285 times)

Offline Dynoman

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #30 on: June 03, 2010, 06:59:58 am »
From Schratts website:


Offline Dynoman

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #31 on: June 03, 2010, 07:11:01 am »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #32 on: June 03, 2010, 07:23:01 am »
At long last!!! Thanks for making my day, Dynoman! Been looking for pics of that bird for 5 years now! Well, it looks like a standard Rutan VariEze type at first glance, doesn't it?

Offline Dynoman

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #33 on: June 03, 2010, 07:40:24 am »
Stargazer...it sure does. Schratts three view drawing from the video post also looks accurate. The canopy is larger with a higher pitched faring that blends into the engine cowling. The two tubes (looks like from the shadow a similar arrangement on both wings) are unknown to me. The rest of the configuration is very 'EZ.'

Offline The Artist

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2010, 07:55:23 am »
And these....



Scott - do you recall what Image11 is supposed to be?

This:
http://www.rense.com/general57/f19.htm



Another pumpkin seed design. So. Which pumpkin seed was it that flew over St. Louis at about 00:20:00 on 01-01-2000? I'm being serious - I saw the thing.
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Offline The Artist

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2010, 09:16:00 am »
Here are the details and the attached image is one of my attempts to recreate what I saw.

For many (too many) years I worked in the Master Control for a cable TV company. One of the regular tasks for the person on the evening shift was to confirm that the tower lights were on then sign off on the verification in the Tower Lights Log. Because of the Y2K scare the tower lights had to be checked twice that night - the second time being after midnight to confirm that Y2K had not knocked them out. (It's an analog photocell that interrupts the circuit during daylight hours so it shouldn't have been on the list but some manager decided that it needed to be checked.) Also. Because of the Y2K scare we had almost as many people there at midnight as we normally had during an average business day.

I waited until about 20 minutes after midnight to check the lights because people in that neighborhood tend to fire guns into the air for New Year's. The Headend Techs were out back taking a smoking break when I checked the lights. My attention was drawn from the tower by what my mind had at first accepted as The Pleiades constellation - it was moving! As I studied it I realized that it was not an average aircraft so I called it to the attention of the others. They had no interest and their general response was "So, it's an airplane."

I heard no sound and saw no visible exhaust or vapor trail. It flew straight line from south to north at an apparent speed that seemed close to the apparent speed of high flying airliners and military aircraft. The bright spots were what caught my attention first then as I studied the thing I could make out the outline of the vehicle. Apart from the bright points, the form was only slightly different in value and color from that of the night sky. Somewhat rusty-brown-grey looking against the deep blue-green of the night sky.

My first attempt to document or recreate what I saw was to try painting it on a small canvas panel but I could not get it to look even close to what I had seen. I took that attempt with me to one of the ASAA Artist Forums and showed it to the Aviation Week editors who were attending. They lost interest as soon as I said that I had no photographs of the thing. For my next attempt I took a night exposure of the sky from where I saw the thing and I've been playing with it in Picture Publisher - trying to get something close to what I saw. My feeling is that this current attempt is still a bit exaggerated in value and contrast.

I'll let you make of this what you will but I know I saw something that night.
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Online Orionblamblam

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2010, 09:48:45 am »
Somewhat rusty-brown-grey looking against the deep blue-green of the night sky.

The coloration indicates that what you were seeing was the city lights below being reflected off of a low-flying aircraft, not an aircraft at airliner altitudes. Something at most a few thousand feet up. Could have just as easily been the Goodyear Blimp. Which might explain the rows of lights you indicate; not full-fledged messages on the , but perhaps just a few "pixels" lit up as running lights.

Determining the speed and altitude of an aircraft is essentially *impossible* without proper scale references. And a vaguely visible aircraft of undiscernable configuration at night with nothing near it to indicate size? It could be a thousand feet up flying at 50 knots, or 50,000 feet up flying at 2,500 knots.



Imagine this with the main message shut off, just a few lights on to avoid collisions, cruising around 2,000 feet up. Not a chance in hell you'd hear it over city traffic.



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Offline RanulfC

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2010, 09:52:06 am »
Ok, I'm sure someone will correct me on this but isn't the "deltoid/pumpkin-seed" design less than stable? By the illustration it (not your's Artist :) ) I don't see how the "control-surfaces" would give much control authority as they would tend to be shadowed at higher speeds. (And personally I'm not seeing HOW you get "high-speed" from "B-17-like" verticals so it may be beside the point entirely on that design) Thrust-vectoring might be possible I suppose.

I am of course MORE than a bit skeptical when someone links "Pulsed" propulsion systems with the "donuts-on-a-rope" effect since it immediatly shows a total lack of knowledge on HOW pulsed anything actually operates :) (Having had personal experiance with seeing a duel-contrail become a "donuts-on-a-rope" {Ok, anyone else ever have problems with that and write "soap-on-a-rope" instead?} contrail I've haven't been able to take anyone seriously who still believes they are "evidence" of some advanced propulsion system)

Dynoman? At first glance those pods under the wings of the Vantage aircraft struck me as simply twin 2.75-inch rocket pod-look alikes, for a movie or TV show maybe? But they also could easily be smoke generators. I recall Rutan's "Veri-Viggen" had a role in the original "Deathrace:2000" as an attack aircraft with a pod fitted to the fuselage :) I suppose that's of little help though...

Not sure what the idea of building a highly modified Long-EZ was for 'testing' especially since Long-EZ's are being fitted with jets, rockets, pulse-detonation engines, and even ducted-fan propulsion so what was the purpose of the "Vantage" and "Sneaky-Pete" in the first place?

Randy

Offline Dynoman

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2010, 10:50:08 am »
For the Artist...there is a lot that the picture does not show, for example: How close are you to an airport/air base? Where was the sighting, in the city, suburbs, outskirts, etc.? How long did you track it? Did you wait around to hear any sound after the object passed overhead? As Orionblamblam says, it "could have easily been the Goodyear Blimp," considering it was New Years. In these cases it's usually best to eliminate the 'most likely suspects,' before considering the unlikely.

My interest is in the lights on the vehicle. The shape at night can be confusing, however the light pattern does not look like a landing light configuration, anti-collision, nav, etc. There are stealth technologies that rely on diffused lighting systems (USAF has used a blue light diffusion systems in the past) that could explain the light pattern.

The basic shape is similar to the Strela below. So the configuration is not impossible.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #39 on: June 03, 2010, 11:17:26 am »
Not sure what the idea of building a highly modified Long-EZ was for 'testing' especially since Long-EZ's are being fitted with jets, rockets, pulse-detonation engines, and even ducted-fan propulsion so what was the purpose of the "Vantage" and "Sneaky-Pete" in the first place?

The TASK Vantage was built in 1982 by Jim Kern's TASK Research as c/n 1 and received the FAA registration N3142B. It is not to be confused with the eponymous prototype developed by Scaled Composites for VisionAire a few years later. The TASK company was a subcontractor for the military and for many aircraft companies such as Lockheed, Northrop and many more; they also built parts for Rutan—notably for the Voyager, of which they were one of the eight original sponsors. In this case the subcontracting work was apparently done on behalf of Northrop.

The TASK Vantage is not properly documented yet, due to its classified lease and evaluation by the military. I do not know what the initial research program was about, but what I can say is what the Vantage became after that. In 1993, it was experimentally fitted with a Williams F107 jet engine, a small turbofan engine made by the Williams International company. It was derived from the Williams WR19 and designed to power cruise missiles and was used as the powerplant for the AGM-86 ALCM, BGM-109 Tomahawk, and AGM-129 ACM, as well as the experimental Williams X-Jet flying platform. Of course the exact purpose of that research program is not known.

An interesting point is that the TASK Vantage appears on the civil register as being owned by none other than Scaled Composites... but it's apparently not in Mojave, and its current whereabouts are unknown.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2010, 11:20:39 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #40 on: June 03, 2010, 11:19:32 am »
Also, be careful not to mistake Rutan's "Sneeky Pete" (a modified EZ) and General Dynamics's "Sneaky Pete" (a sub-scale flying-wing demonstrator for the A-12 Avenger II).

sublight

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #41 on: June 03, 2010, 11:44:24 am »
I'll let you make of this what you will but I know I saw something that night.
It was the stealth blimp.

http://www.thestealthblimp.com/

Online Orionblamblam

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #42 on: June 03, 2010, 11:52:49 am »

It was the stealth blimp.

So stealthy it was lit up and visible to the naked eye at night, and so top secret it was flown over a major metropolitan area at at time of night on a "party night" when it was assured that many more people than usual would be outside looking up.
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Offline RanulfC

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #43 on: June 03, 2010, 12:02:55 pm »
Also, be careful not to mistake Rutan's "Sneeky Pete" (a modified EZ) and General Dynamics's "Sneaky Pete" (a sub-scale flying-wing demonstrator for the A-12 Avenger II).
Thanks Stargazer, I'll TRY and keep myself straight.... (Memory like a stainless steel sieve, Ya... that'll happen I'm sure  ;) )
Actually I'm on rather "familiar" terms with the F107, nice engine as long as you don't actually have to work on it  ::)

Quote
Orionblamblam wrote:
So stealthy it was lit up and visible to the naked eye at night, and so top secret it was flown over a major metropolitan area at at time of night on a "party night" when it was assured that many more people than usual would be outside looking up.
But of course! How else are you going to be able to tell how well your stealth works unless you count the number of "UFO" reports on a given night?
 ;D

Randy

sublight

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Re: "Sneeky Pete" Revealed
« Reply #44 on: June 03, 2010, 07:55:57 pm »
Apparently another guy saw the same thing as "the artist" last night:
"About 1:05 am June 3, 2010 severe thunder / lightning storm moving in from the Northwest and I saw a single plane like bluish light moving through the very bad lightning and watched it wondering what the heck a plane was doing flying directly through the storm. The storm had to be at least 10 miles away and the light I first saw moving through it was behind it coming towards my direction, but it came on very fast. Fast enough that before I realized it had gotten closer I could see something that at first appeared to be a triangular shape or diamond shaped outline against the approaching storm clouds. It looked like it stopped and I guess made a complete 90 degree turn and then flew right over my head. As it flew over I could distinctly see it was a rectangular shaped craft and see the lines of it's construction as well as markings underneath (couldn't quite make the markings out but they looked like something an aircraft would be marked with). In the center of it I could still make out the bluish light and could lightly see what looked like red squares in each corner and still faintly make out the square outline of the craft but if I hadn't been so curious about seeing a 'plane' flying through a bad lightning storm it pretty much completely blended in with the sky. Doubt anyone else would be able to make it out unless they spotted it by chance and were watching. It was fast and silent. Couldn't estimate how high up it was since I am not sure what type of aircraft you could compare it to but judging by how high it was coming through the storm I'd have to say pretty big for me to see that much detail as it went overhead. Bigger than any kind of aircraft I have ever seen. When I realized I was looking at something strange I went to get my cell phone to take a picture or something but it was way gone. Last heading towards the direction of Galveston Bay. I'm sure it was military. Confident of it. Just had a familiar kind of 'feel' to it as it went overhead. Would love to know what it was though, and would like them to explain how they got that kind of technology in the first place."