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Author Topic: Patriot SAM replacement  (Read 76307 times)

Offline bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #405 on: August 23, 2017, 02:33:51 am »
Any idea on AN/TPQ-53 array dimensions?

9.3 ft by 9.3 ft as per Kelvin Wong at Jane's IDR although I'm not sure since it does not appear to have equal sides..If you adjust for the FMTV width you get a height of 9.3 ft (based on reporting below) and a width of 7.5-7.8 ft. This makes sense and is quite close to where I could ballpark based on vehicle dimensions.

 Assuming that Lockheed offers a fully populated array based on the Q-53s size, the Patriot AESA array will be approximately 60% larger while the TPS-80 would be about 20% larger than it. It is however quite likely that Lockheed offers multiple sizes much like the AMDR, EL/M-2084, and Giraffe 4A/8A. An extended FMTV could be considered ( like on MEADS MFCR) allowing for a larger radar and associated equipment to be fitted.

http://www.janes.com/article/73271/singapore-acquires-an-tpq-53-counter-fire-target-acquisition-radars

Quote
The radar unit itself is 6.93 m long, 2.84 m wide,2.84 m tall, and weighs 8,889 kg.


Edit - Kelvin has now edited the article to reflect the  the correct dimensions -

http://www.janes.com/article/73337/singapore-acquires-an-tpq-53-counter-fire-target-acquisition-radars
« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 08:13:04 am by bring_it_on »
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Offline fredymac

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #406 on: October 09, 2017, 09:09:49 am »
Raytheon pushing modernized command electronics/software for Patriot including a "gaming style" interface for the operators.  If they're going that route they might just use the real thing.



Full blown gaming interface display

Offline bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #407 on: October 10, 2017, 06:21:35 am »
Soldier test of anti-missile command system deemed a success
[/url]

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IBCS has had successful flight tests in 2015 and 2016, which proved the system “could do what was previously thought to be undoable — that IBCS could provide the [command and control] for sensors and weapon systems never intended to work with each other,” he added.However, a Limited User Test last year found deficiencies with the system mostly related to software.

But Verwiel declared in the statement the software deficiencies identified in the 2016 LUT, “have been resolved.”

He said lessons learned from the LUT “resulted in a substantially improved system.”

Bringing IBCS to life is no easy endeavor by nature. It involves complicated software development, and the plans for IBCS on the battlefield have expanded, resulting in the need for more development.

The soldier checkout event took place at Tobin Wells in Fort Bliss, Texas, with soldiers from both Fort Bliss and Fort Sill, Oklahoma, over the course of three weeks in August.IBCS was used across battalion and battery-level operations using Sentinel and Patriot radars and Patriot Advanced Capability (PAC)-2, PAC-3 and PAC-3 Missile Segment Enhanced interceptors.

The system fought “26 simulated air battles against hundreds of tactical ballistic missile threats,” according to the company statement.

Then the event wrapped up with a 72-hour endurance run of IBCS that included 18 additional air battles, the statement adds.

“This SCOE is an enterprise-level integration and test of IBCS and Army IAMD assets and capabilities with soldier operators,” Barry Pike, the Army’s Missiles and Space program executive officer, said. “The event allows air defense warfighters the unprecedented opportunity to provide relevant system performance and interface feedback when the system is integrated with actual tactical hardware and software.”

While IBCS’ initial operational capability is delayed by four years, according to a Defense News assessment of budget request documents, there are signs the system is making a turnaround.

[US Army anti-missile command system’s initial capability delayed four years]

Brig. Gen. Randall McIntire, the Army Air Defense Artillery School commandant and the Air Defense Artillery chief, said, “I am very pleased with the significant progress made on IBCS over the last year. It is going to open up the aperture in terms of how we will be able to fight in the future. What we are working on today will be key for decades to come in our ability to combine offensive and defensive fires into one entity that is fast and agile.”

The event also proved that IBCS is relatively easy to use. The soldiers who used the system in the checkout had never used it before and received only four weeks of training leading up to the event.

“Even with simultaneous targets reaching hundreds during some of the air battles, the soldiers performed exceptionally well,” the statement reads.

IBCS and the Army will go through the second phase of the soldier checkout at Yuma Proving Proving Ground, Arizona, this month, which will focus on live-air operational performance in a joint environment, according to the statement.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2017, 06:23:11 am by bring_it_on »
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Offline bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #408 on: October 10, 2017, 07:58:58 am »
Going 360 degrees: Patriot radar concept awards due out soon

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The Army is planning to award up to four efforts to generate concepts for a missile defense radar capable of seeing 360 degrees within weeks, according to Barry Pike, the Army’s program executive officer for missiles and space.

“Before the end of the month, we should have four concept definitions contracts underway and those should help inform our risk reduction and prototyping phase that we will go into next,” Pike told Defense News in an interview at the Association of the U.S. Army’s annual convention.

“We expect or hope to carry at least three vendors into that depending on how things shake out into that prototyping phase,” he added.

The Army decided earlier this year — after analyzing whether it would upgrade or replace the Patriot Air-and-Missile Defense system’s radar — that it would hold a competition to procure a new 360-degree, lower-tier air-and-missile defense sensor.The plan is to begin analysis of materiel solutions in fiscal year 2018, a service spokesman told Defense News back in June.


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Offline totoro

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #409 on: October 18, 2017, 03:00:50 am »
Perhaps a bit off topic but does anyone have a single image of an Egyptian Patriot battery component?

Or a news article mentioning either delivery of Patriot to Egypt or cancellation of the 1999 agreement?

www.youtube.com/c/binkovsbattlegrounds - military analysis videos 

New video available: F-35 vs Su-35, the verdict (part 2/2)

Offline bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #410 on: October 18, 2017, 03:25:46 pm »
Army awards concept design contracts for Patriot radar replacement


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Because of their previous involvement, it’s no shock both Raytheon and Lockheed received contracts, awarded last Friday to conjure up concepts for the new radar. Northrop Grumman also confirmed to Defense News that it “is participating in the TMRR phase of LTAMDS competition,” according to a company spokesman.

But, according to several sources, another company Technovative Applications, based in Brea, California, just popped up on the radar, receiving a contract from the Army as well.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 03:32:01 pm by bring_it_on »
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Offline bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #411 on: October 20, 2017, 02:45:06 am »

AUSA 2017: US Army to get mobile Patriot C2 system by end of 2017



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Raytheon has most recently demonstrated the capability in mid-2017 in a European exercise. During that demonstration, a prototype of the dismounted system was deployed forward with a battery to Lithuania. Kelley said the system integrated seamlessly with the full truck-mounted versions of the Patriot systems that stayed behind in the rear.

Three weeks after the Lithuanian demonstration, Sweden requested an opportunity to test the mobile unit. The same battalion deployed a Patriot battery to Sweden taking only the prototype unit, and leaving the truck-mounted capability behind.

“One thing you will hear, in the environment of the future, commanders need to be flexible, they have to be able to scale capabilities, move them quickly, or use them in [a] manner that the systems were not always built for,” Kelley said. “This gives commanders in the field that capability to scale up or down, and split operations between multiple countries.

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Offline bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #412 on: October 20, 2017, 07:35:49 am »
Lockheed Martin Next Generation Missile Defense Sensor Technology Receives Prototyping Contract

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SYRACUSE, N.Y., Oct. 19, 2017 /PRNewswire/ -- The Department of Defense Ordnance Technology Consortium (DOTC) awarded Lockheed Martin (NYSE: LMT) a contract for the technology maturation of Lower Tier Air & Missile Defense Sensor (LTAMDS) prototypes. DOTC, commissioned by the Under Secretary of Defense for Acquisition, Technology and Logistics, is a DoD initiative intended to facilitate collaboration between the government, industry and academia for technology development and prototyping. The funding from DOTC is used for technology development efforts that will further define performance requirements, mature technology and reduce risk for the LTAMDS program.

"Receiving DOTC funding is indicative of the rapid capability need the LTAMDS will fill for the U.S. Army," said Mark Mekker, director of next generation radar systems at Lockheed Martin. "Lockheed Martin is ready to leverage our significant experience, Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) technology and sensor capabilities in the LTAMDS concept definition phase to accelerate much needed enhanced capability to the warfighter."

Lockheed Martin is using its AESA Radar for Engagement and Surveillance (ARES) prototype investment program to mature technology and capabilities necessary for the future LTAMDS mission. Combined DOTC funding and Lockheed Martin investment will continue to mature technology for the prototype, including AESA and dual-band technology. The prototype will include mature Gallium Nitride (GaN) transmitter technology and advanced signal processing techniques including Lockheed Martin's proven 360-degree rotational capability.

"Technology is maturing at such a pace that continuing to incrementally upgrade the heritage Patriot MPQ-65 radar system is no longer the most efficient and cost effective option," said Mekker. "A next generation LTAMDS radar will leverage recent advances in radar technology to provide a cost effective, scalable, long term solution that can address current threats and adapt to emerging and future threats."

Lockheed Martin has developed and produced ground based radar systems for more than 40 years, and our latest open-architecture prototype leverages building blocks from several other successful radar products, including the Q-53, Long Range Discrimination Radar and Space Fence. Lockheed Martin's low-risk solution is based on decades of development, backed by demonstrable technology and will be the first sensor specifically designed to operate within the Army Integrated Air & Missile Defense (IAMD) framework.
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Offline bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #413 on: November 07, 2017, 10:52:48 am »
Seems Sweden is moving along on its Air Defense modernization plan -

The Government authorises FMV to enter into negotiations with the United States on the purchase of a new medium-range air defence system

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The aim of the negotiations is for delivery to have commenced in 2020 and for the system to be operational within the next defence framework period, i.e. by 2025 at the latest. The basis for the decision is the agreement on defence between the Government parties, the Moderate party and the Center party, of 16 August 2017.

The Armed Forces have advocated Patriot as a new air defence system, as it is a proven system with good delivery reliability and anti-ballistic missile capability. The acquisition is also in line with what is expressed in the Defense Policy Bill and adheres to the implementation of the Statement of Intent (SOI), signed by Sweden and the United States in June 2016.

The decision means that the negotiations with the United States can formally begin. A formal tender through a Letter of Offer and Acceptance is expected in spring 2018. Based on this tender and the decision of the Riksdag (the Swedish Parliament) on the proposal to acquire a new medium-range air defence system in the 2018 Budget Bill, the Government will make a final decision on the acquisition during 2018.
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Offline JakobS

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #414 on: November 07, 2017, 12:09:39 pm »
Yup, I'm a very happy man today!

Seems we are planning on reduced batteries with "only" three firing ramps per battery in order to afford the system. 4 of these reduced batteries will make up a battalion. The plan is to have two battalions of the system to 2030, this decision covers only the first one.



If were doing like Poland and buying PAC-3 and Stunner then it's not a problem since they hold 12-16 missiles each. If we throw in PAC-2 into the mix however...

Offline bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #415 on: November 07, 2017, 12:20:30 pm »
You can always mix and match since even if you have one PAC-3 launcher and 2 PAC-2 launchers you still get between 20 and 25 interceptors. It appears that Sweden will be picking the standard Configuration 3/3+ system. Unfortunately for them their program requirements and delivery dates likely mean that they will have to upgrade later to an AESA radar, IBCS and perhaps even a new launcher. Perhaps the second battalion can feature the upgrades. IBCS would have allowed them to work in their own surveillance radars into the system more affordably.
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 12:25:43 pm by bring_it_on »
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Offline JakobS

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #416 on: November 11, 2017, 08:07:06 am »



You can always mix and match since even if you have one PAC-3 launcher and 2 PAC-2 launchers you still get between 20 and 25 interceptors.

Some info from the recent days says that nothing is set in stone with the deal when it comes to number of batteries, launchers and the missile mix. The photo released by FMV showing three ramps is only to show the system of to the general public. The only thing being stated is that the maximum number of batteries will be four per battalion, maybe even three depending on the price negotiations with Raytheon.

I'm guessing we will eventually land in four ramps per battery. First two PAC-2 launchers and one PAC-3 launcher and then later on a ramp with Stunner will be added as well.

Our current government is highly anti-Semitic, so that's probably why the israeli missile isn't featured already. The first thing they did when they took office was to recognize Palestine, being the only EU-member to do so. The socialist government is however as popular as the late french socialist government with Hollande was, so they are out on their asses next fall.

It appears that Sweden will be picking the standard Configuration 3/3+ system.

When the Patriot battery was here for the first time a few months ago, as part of the exercise Aurora 17, the Swedish Army specifically specified that only the new C2 fire control station was brought along. I'm guessing we won't be getting the bigger more stationary fire control station.

Unfortunately for them their program requirements and delivery dates likely mean that they will have to upgrade later to an AESA radar, IBCS and perhaps even a new launcher.

I think that the first four batteries will be upgraded with IBCS later on. That way we can still keep the old radar and the already existing Giraffe radars can cover up for it when the need arises.

Perhaps the second battalion can feature the upgrades.

That would be my guess as well, the deliveries for these units is not until 2025-2030, so they should come with both IBCS and 360 degree radar.

Offline bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #417 on: November 11, 2017, 10:03:06 am »
Please resize those images.
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Offline bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #418 on: November 12, 2017, 04:16:24 pm »
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Offline marauder2048

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #419 on: November 13, 2017, 10:49:02 pm »
I'm also surprised there has been more discussion about what else can fit in the THAAD launcher (aside from THAAD-ER).

Like what?  Do you have any links?

Purely my own (probably unoriginal) thinking.  How about PAC-3 MSE with a 16 inch diameter x 3 ft long booster (might resemble the booster for Stunner) ?  I think that would still fit and stay within the canister weight limits.

from FBO October 27, 2017

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THAAD/ PAC-3 MSE Integration and PATRIOT Launch of Remote
Solicitation Number: W31P4Q-17-G-0001

The proposed action is for the procurement of THAAD/PATRIOT Advanced Capability (PAC-3)
Missile Segment Enhancement (MSE) Integration (TMI) and PATRIOT Launch on Remote (LOR)
development.  The action is to accomplish the development of capabilities in support of THAAD
MSE Integration and PATRIOT Launch on Remote; design and implementation of an updated
Fire Solution Computer software and architecture; Launcher Interface Network Kit software development activities;
and a trade study to assess feasibility of launching a PAC-3 MSE from a THAAD launcher.

https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportunity&mode=form&tab=core&id=d2548a71b43a12746d3332d8fe8f7eb9

my emphasis