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Author Topic: Patriot SAM replacement  (Read 101786 times)

Offline sferrin

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #30 on: December 04, 2015, 05:03:21 pm »
They'll have to do a cost analysis for those situations. Given the Patriot replacement magnitude, it all comes down to what capability gets in and what has to be delegated to the THAAD and its future iterations. It may just be better to buy some extra THAAD batteries for those instances that requires patriot augmentation with something that is higher capability. I don't think they are looking at taking out fighters from 200 km away from ground launchers but if the air-superiority capability is reduced then it may become an option that they'd explore. At the moment the PAC 3 MSE will pretty much be the main weapon but it comes in at around $3 Million iirc so a stunner at around $500,000 is an excellent choice to pair with the MSE given that Raytheon is a sub-contractor, we paid a portion of its development and that it is significantly mature and de-risked.

Er, PAC-2 is used all the time. 





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Online bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #31 on: December 04, 2015, 05:05:00 pm »
^ I meant the main weapon as far as modernization thrust is concerned..
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Offline sferrin

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #32 on: December 04, 2015, 05:11:51 pm »
^ I meant the main weapon as far as modernization thrust is concerned..

But they just modernized the PAC-3 missile.  That's what the PAC-3 MSE / MEADS missile is.  ???  PAC-2 is getting long in tooth.  It's had warhead and guidance upgrades over the years but that's about it.
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Offline lastdingo

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #33 on: December 04, 2015, 05:20:20 pm »
It doesn't make sense for the U.S. to develop naval and land-based SAMs in parallel.
The Russians/Soviets used the same missiles in both land-based and naval applications for decades (while NATO had at least widespread dual use of surface and air-launched missiles; Sparrow/Sea Sparrow, Aspide, Sidewinder/Chapparal).
The French and Italians do the same with Aster/SAMP-T.

The USN so far merely mated a modified AMRAAM seeker to a Standard missile (SM-6), after developing ESSM instead of using some modified AMRAAM (which is also used in HUMRAAM).

The diversity should rather be in seekers (to make countermeasures more difficult) than missile families.

Online bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #34 on: December 04, 2015, 05:21:28 pm »
I know but I doubt they'll somehow find money to modernize the PAC-2 beyond just upgrades. I don't see a serious need to develop a significantly longer ranged A&MD weapon when they don't have the money to fully fund the system modernization with the highest capability systems (unless the army makes more money available). The fastest option would be to just add THAAD batteries and perhaps procure a few more of them when money becomes available. Stunner has a better chance if Raytheon can demonstrate the $500,000 claimed sticker price.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 06:14:24 pm by bring_it_on »
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Offline sferrin

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #35 on: December 04, 2015, 05:27:59 pm »
It doesn't make sense for the U.S. to develop naval and land-based SAMs in parallel.

Different requirements.  (environmental, physical etc.  Same reason using a SAM as an AAM isn't a slam dunk.)


The USN so far merely mated a modified AMRAAM seeker to a Standard missile (SM-6), after developing ESSM instead of using some modified AMRAAM (which is also used in HUMRAAM).

ESSM has WAY more kinematic capability than SLAMRAAM.   (SLAMRAAM-ER isn't in service.)

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #36 on: December 04, 2015, 05:40:34 pm »
Well ESSM has enough kinetic performance over the AMRAAM for Raytheon to base their AMRAAM-ER on it..
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Offline sferrin

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #37 on: December 04, 2015, 05:45:53 pm »
Well ESSM has enough kinetic performance over the AMRAAM for Raytheon to base their AMRAAM-ER on it..

I think you meant SLAMRAAM-ER.  There is no air-launched version.
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 05:47:52 pm by sferrin »
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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #38 on: December 04, 2015, 06:02:34 pm »
Technically speaking, Raytheon calls the missile  AMRAAM-ER ;) although SLAMRAAM-ER would definitely be more appropriate way to market it .

http://www.raytheon.com/news/feature/air_and_ground.html

Its an AMRAAM ESSM hybrid..

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23897.0
« Last Edit: December 04, 2015, 06:18:01 pm by bring_it_on »
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Offline sferrin

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2015, 06:28:07 pm »
Technically speaking, Raytheon calls the missile  AMRAAM-ER ;) although SLAMRAAM-ER would definitely be more appropriate way to market it .

http://www.raytheon.com/news/feature/air_and_ground.html

Its an AMRAAM ESSM hybrid..

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23897.0

Huh.  Wonder when they changed it.  Wish they'd stayed with the original design (though the new one with the grafted on AIM-120 airframe section is probably cheaper).

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Online bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2015, 06:32:27 pm »
I think it was just the cheapest way they could improve the SLAMRAAM. They may just use it as a backup for the Stunner for those nations in the Middle East that can't buy the stunner for political reasons. In all their US Army targeted material they have showcased the stunner as an optional add on weapon but I do recall some of their marketing stuff to poland included options for SLAMRAAM or the stunner.
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Offline Steve Pace

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #41 on: December 04, 2015, 09:16:19 pm »
Technically speaking, Raytheon calls the missile  AMRAAM-ER ;) although SLAMRAAM-ER would definitely be more appropriate way to market it .

http://www.raytheon.com/news/feature/air_and_ground.html

Its an AMRAAM ESSM hybrid..

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=23897.0
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Offline fredymac

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #42 on: December 05, 2015, 05:21:24 am »
I thought SLAMRAAM was for Surface Launched AMRAAM.

Raytheon's choice of background music is not for everyone but the 2nd half of this video shows it being used.


Online bring_it_on

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #43 on: December 05, 2015, 06:15:06 am »
Quote
I thought SLAMRAAM was for Surface Launched AMRAAM.

Yes it is
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Offline bobbymike

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Re: Patriot SAM replacement
« Reply #44 on: December 05, 2015, 09:37:35 am »
http://breakingdefense.com/2015/12/cyber-ew-are-secret-missile-defense-weapons-too-secret-to-use/

Maybe not a missiles at all?

Quote
There are so many different technological means available,” said Macy, at various levels of classification: “the black programs, the grey programs, the white programs.” When a launch occurs — or, better yet, when you get intelligence a launch may happen — which techniques do you use, in what combination and what order, under what circumstances against which adversaries? The tactical and technical complexities must be thought through, field-tested, and practiced well in advance, Macy said, because there’s no time to jury-rig defenses once a missile’s in the air.
« Last Edit: December 05, 2015, 09:39:25 am by bobbymike »
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