Speculative/theoretical Japanese aircraft from WW2 publications

hesham said:

Nakajima AT-27 twin engined single seat fighter.

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hesham,

Be careful with so called Japanese secret projects.There is a lot of
"creative phantasy is this field.
For exemple the AT-27 is pure fiction...

hesham said:

Mitsubishi A8M twin boom fighter.
are you have a more informations ?

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A Mitsubishi A8M1 is mentioned at http://www.geocities.co.jp/Colosseum/2610/twinzero.html
This is a what-if fantasy, joking, about a Twin-Zero. The illustration is no more on the Web it seems, but a drawing is still in my book "Supplement Nr.1 to Forked Ghosts".

Another Mitsubishi A8M1 is illustrated at http://forums.acecombatskies.com/lofiversion/index.php?t26-400.html
This is another what-if fantasy, joking, about a Japanese P-38 Lightning with external fins. I did not know this one, thanks to you (and Google) for having made me discover it... ;D

Heshem shows a Flight sideview of "a normal torpedo bomber" with tandem engines (with the cockpit between the two V-12s) driving contra-rotating propellers.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4840.0.html

The Flight writer also mentions the Japanese "A.T.27" design with a similar layout (the source was an unnamed German writer). That "design" is described in the 25 Dec 1941 edition (p469):

http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1941/1941%20-%203105.html

No manufacturer is given but other sources list a fictional "Nakajima AT-27 Gus". The design may be purely notional but this A.T.27 does bear a strong resemblance to the Kawasaki Ki-64. Takeo Doi's 1939 design has an identical layout to the "A.T.27" and the Ki-64's details are close:

Type Speed Wt(empty) Wt(loaded) Wing Area Range

A.T.27 410 mph 8000 lbs 11600 lbs 237 sq ft 1250 mi

Ki-64 429 mph 8929 lbs 11245 lbs 301 sq ft 620 mi

So, the Ki-64 is somewhat larger and the range much less (Ki-64 range was 1000 km, perhaps a transcription accident from the original German report?).

The A.T.27. was said to be powered by "two steam-cooled V-12 engines of 1,250 h.p. each." Obviously the Ki-64's Ha-201 (twin Ha-40s, 1175 hp each) wasn't steam-cooled.

With the Ha-40 being a licence-built DB 601Aa, the German writer would know that service versions of this engine were glycol-cooled. But Doi planned the Ki-64 to have steam evaporation cooling (using wing condensers à la the He-100 as tested on a Ki.61 Hein).

So, the question is: was the design described by this German writer (and ascribed to Nakajima as the AT-27) actually a basically accurate verbal description of the Kawasaki Ki-64 at an early stage of development?

Barrington Bond said:

Umm, Flight(Global) hasn't suggested anything.
These are submissions by its readers who we do not even know have anything to do with the aircraft industry.

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Sometimes their musings do lead to questions about real projects/aircraft though. Eg: related to Hesham's tandem-engined torpedo bomber -- AT 27 'Gus' - Nakajima or Kawasaki?

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4848.msg38328/topicseen.html#msg38328

I'm afraid that the AT-27 is a pure fictional aircraft.
It was the result of a would be-designer competition in a
pre-World War II Japanese magazine.

Thanks for the AT-27 clarification, Lark.

That was one prescient "would be-designer"! He/she anticipated both the Ki-64 and the more technically successful Arsenal VB 10.

Lark answered the question in another section:

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4840.msg38336.html#new

"I'm afraid that the AT-27 is a pure fictional aircraft. It was the result of a would be-designer competition in a pre-World War II Japanese magazine."

The Mitsubishi Type 0 was a fictional fighter. It was described in the O.N.I. 249 publication as a Japanese version of the Fokker D.XXIII but no illustration was provided. As such, it was code named "Harry". There was another Type 0, the Mitsubishi T.K.4 Type 0 which appeared in a Japanese magazine as a more conventional twin-engine design looking much like a Bf 110. It was code named "Frank" until this Type 0 was dropped from the name list and the name reassigned to the Ki-84.

I've never heard of the Nakajima Toka. The Showa Toka was to be the Navy version of the Nakajima Ki-115 but the Toka used a radial engine.

hesham said:

Thanks Chuck,

but I found nothing,there are a more interesting propjects:

Mitsubishi type O push-pull twin engined single seat fighter.
Nakajima AT-27 twin engined single seat fighter.
Nippon Ta-go experimental suicide attack aircraft.
Nakajima Toka suicide attack jet aircraft.

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Justo Miranda said:

Good fake
From "Zany Afternoons" by Bruce McCall´s
Alfred A. Knopf ed. 1982

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Why do I get the feeling it says "ACME" somewhere on this thing ;D

Regards & all,

Thomas L. Nielsen
Denmark

Hi guys,

I have a question on the Mitsubishi T.K.4 Type O which gets a brief mention in the Midland Counties Japanese Secret Projects. The side view in the book shows it as a radial powered Fokker D.XXIII, I wondered if anyone has more information on this? Only only online source I found suggested it was a mistake due to confusion with a fictional project from a Japanese aviation publication from 1941?

Any help appreciated, apologies if trhis has been asked before elsewhere.

Colin

freightdog862 said:

I have a question on the Mitsubishi T.K.4 Type O which gets a brief mention in the Midland Counties Japanese Secret Projects. The side view in the book shows it as a radial powered Fokker D.XXIII, I wondered if anyone has more information on this? Only only online source I found suggested it was a mistake due to confusion with a fictional project from a Japanese aviation publication from 1941?

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Hopefully this answers your questions:
http://www.j-aircraft.org/xplanes/hikoki_files/type0.htm
It's fictional in any case...

Also check out this link:

http://www.daveswarbirds.com/Nippon/aircraft/Harry.htm

and from this very website (fifth comment down):

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=6205.0


I call these "fictitious" aircraft, that is, aircraft from that period that were never built and never had an official designation from the military, let alone an active project. Aircraft that did get a designation but were never built (like the Ki-62) I call paper projects. A real project to me is anything from a mockup on up. Some websites have aircraft depicted that were not dreamed up till after the war period ("what ifs"). I call these imaginary aircraft. That's just how I classify them. YMMV.

Hi! Japanese text says that tear drop canopy Raiden's drawing is from Jane's all the world's aircraft 1945 and 1946.
Obviously Jane's mistake. Jane got the information of only canopy modification of Raiden（雷電）, and based on this information, they made this drawing.
Beautiful modification, but mistake.

Gerhard, what is the aircraft in the middle of the right hand page on the second PDF? I don't read kanji but the adjacent writing seems to mention the Ki 60, Ki 61 the Bf109E and the He 100D but I don't recognise the aircraft in the drawing as being any of those.

Hi Nick

Sorry cannot read Kanji either. I do not know.
Cheers

Nick Sumner said:

Gerhard, what is the aircraft in the middle of the right hand page on the second PDF? I don't read kanji but the adjacent writing seems to mention the Ki 60, Ki 61 the Bf109E and the He 100D but I don't recognise the aircraft in the drawing as being any of those.

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Looks like a Heinkel-based design, but I could be wrong.

At any rate, if you zoom in, you'll find it has a caption in English, which probably proves it to be a period Western interpolation of a Japanese fighter, probably fictitious.

Hi! It's a liquid cooling engine Zero fighter based on U.S. military pilot's information.
Of course it's a illusion or ghost fighter. ;D
U.S. thought it's engine was 1400hp class, feared it very much.

Thanks Blackkite!

Hi,


early speculated drawing to Kawasaki Ki-61 Hien (Tony),from British magazine "Aeronautics",
page 72;


http://books.google.com.au/books?id=p-2xTWVql1gC&pg=PA72#v=onepage&q&f=false

From, Western_Aviation_Missiles_and_Space 1942,

what was this Aichi design,a fake one ?.

I would love to see more evidence of a WW2 Japanese trimotor, because that would be a first for me. I am very skeptical about this one.

Arjen said:

I would love to see more evidence of a WW2 Japanese trimotor, because that would be a first for me. I am very skeptical about this one.

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If you have a look to whole page,you will see one real project ?!.

hesham said:

If you have a look to whole page,you will see one real project ?!.

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See: https://www.daveswarbirds.com/Nippon/aircraft/Ione.htm

Aichi AI-104 Type 98 ("Ione")

This aircraft never existed in the Japanese inventory or plans. The Allies believed that such an aircraft was available to or in use by the Japanese Navy, and so assigned it the Allied codename of "Ione" ...

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Yep both the AI-104 and the B-97 are misidentifications/misunderstandings by military intelligence.

I'm even surprised that such questions should arise in 2024, as these have been debunked for DECADES in many articles and books!!!