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Author Topic: NASA HL-20 lifting body  (Read 14183 times)

Offline Orionblamblam

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NASA HL-20 lifting body
« on: June 15, 2008, 01:03:58 am »
I've posted a bunch of artwork and mockup photos of the HL-20 lifting body over on my blog...

http://up-ship.com/blog/
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 03:30:30 pm by PaulMM (Overscan) »
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And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline archipeppe

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2008, 11:44:58 am »
Many thanks Scott, as usual, your contribution are always very welcomed...  :D

Offline Archibald

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2008, 04:46:30 am »
Hmmm I feel some 3-view of the HL-20 coming...
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Offline archipeppe

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2008, 06:20:23 am »
Hmmm I feel some 3-view of the HL-20 coming...

It's easer than you think, I've already done HL20 3 views.
Stay in touch....  ;)

Offline flateric

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2008, 05:35:31 am »
Can someone say why actually HL-20 and HL-42 designs, (based, AFAK, on data aquired from WT tests of models made to match aerodynamic shapes of BOR-4), were abandoned?

Why, returning to lifting body CRV idea, NASA went back to SV-5D PRIME/X-23A shapes instead of playing with BOR-4 ones?
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #5 on: April 04, 2009, 09:20:22 pm »
Why, returning to lifting body CRV idea, NASA went back to SV-5D PRIME/X-23A shapes instead of playing with BOR-4 ones?

Because the X-23/X-24A shape was far more proven than the BOR-4 design. It also provides a somewhat smaller vehicle for the same small passenger capability. HL-20 makes a better vehicle if you need built-in propulsion capability, since you can put propellant tanks in the flattened body.
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Offline The Artist

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2010, 06:42:11 pm »
This seems to be the place to post these.

I was lucky to have been at the Virginia Air and Space Museum on the day the HL-20 mock-up was delivered then again the next day when it had been placed on display. I just checked the floor maps on their website and it seems to no longer be on display there.

I'm not claiming that these are great pictures but I think they may be of interest to some here. The pics were scanned from the 4x6 inch prints. If I can locate the negatives I may be able to come up with better details.

So, anyone interested?

Mike
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Offline flateric

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2010, 06:48:32 pm »
absolutely yes!
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline The Artist

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2010, 07:08:47 pm »
Again, these were scanned from the 4 x 6 inch prints. I'll look for the negatives. Maybe they are still in with what I let Mark Nankivil borrow to scan - I'm still working my way through what he has returned.
"Thank you for summing that up."

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Offline The Artist

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #9 on: January 07, 2010, 07:24:06 pm »
Second batch.
"Thank you for summing that up."

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Offline The Artist

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2010, 07:39:29 pm »
Third batch
"Thank you for summing that up."

Hiccup Horrendous Haddock III

Offline The Artist

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #11 on: January 07, 2010, 07:55:10 pm »
Last batch.

Mike
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Offline Triton

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #12 on: January 07, 2010, 07:56:38 pm »
Awesome! Thank you The Artist;D

Offline flateric

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #13 on: January 07, 2010, 08:10:26 pm »
absolutely thank you, Mike!
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2010, 08:26:49 am »
I loved that museum! Used to go there when I was stationed out in VA. Thanks for bringing back some memories.
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline Steve Pace

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2010, 08:49:43 am »
Check these...
When you know you're right, go ahead.

Offline archipeppe

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2010, 12:27:54 pm »
As previously promised here it is a small presentation, with all new full color mine artwork, about the HL-20.

Offline archipeppe

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2010, 12:28:50 pm »
More slides....

Offline archipeppe

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2010, 12:29:26 pm »
The last slides.

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2010, 01:08:09 pm »
Brava!
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline archipeppe

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2010, 01:37:58 pm »
Brava!

Many thanks (emh...."brava" in Italian is for a female, for a man is "bravo"....I know this odd Italian language.....  ;) ).

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2010, 01:55:37 pm »
Bravo! My bad!  ;D
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline The Artist

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2010, 09:27:08 pm »
Very nice! Thanks for sharing.
"Thank you for summing that up."

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Offline CFE

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2010, 10:04:46 pm »
Is there any detailed info on OSC's attempts to bring back HL-20 for OSP in 2001-2002?  Their initial artwork looked very much like the traditional HL-20 layout.  As the project progressed, the HL-20 outer fins got bigger and lost their dihedral, essentially becoming wings.

Offline archipeppe

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #24 on: January 09, 2010, 12:01:54 am »
Is there any detailed info on OSC's attempts to bring back HL-20 for OSP in 2001-2002?  Their initial artwork looked very much like the traditional HL-20 layout.  As the project progressed, the HL-20 outer fins got bigger and lost their dihedral, essentially becoming wings.

Not so much.

In effect the original HL-20 proposal was recycled twice: the first time for the OSP proposal, around 2000, and the second time for the DreamChaser second layout for COTS (taking into account that not fresh new are about it since a couple of years).

Offline Archibald

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #25 on: January 09, 2010, 04:15:27 am »
Archipeppe did it again ! Wonderful ! Pictures already stored on my HD. Somewhere I've created a WORD file with Mark Wade and Archi' spaceship profiles.

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Offline Byeman

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #26 on: January 09, 2010, 06:15:56 am »
More slides....

Only a comment, it would have been tested on a Titan IV.  Titan III production was long ended by this time

Offline Nik

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #27 on: January 09, 2010, 06:18:54 am »
Seems a bit inadequate, but I gotta say, "Isn't it so *cute* !!"

I followed the Lifting Body saga as best I could, was bitterly disappointed by the Shuttle's many comprimises. Still, looks like X37, Japan, China, India, even the ESA are winging that way again, as the next rung after crew-rated capsules & expendable launchers. FWIW, a lifting body as crew-cab / escape capsule for a Skylon may be a sweet-spot in tech...

;-( Please excuse my mithpelling and garrulosity (sic) due left arm in plaster after a not quite good enough break-fall on icy path. At least radius is hairline instead compound...)

Offline archipeppe

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #28 on: January 09, 2010, 06:26:04 am »
Only a comment, it would have been tested on a Titan IV.  Titan III production was long ended by this time

I wondering the same by myself, anyway my reference (based upon NASA material) clearly speaks about Titan IIIC, please look at the following image.

Offline Byeman

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #29 on: January 09, 2010, 07:15:10 am »
Only a comment, it would have been tested on a Titan IV.  Titan III production was long ended by this time

I wondering the same by myself, anyway my reference (based upon NASA material) clearly speaks about Titan IIIC, please look at the following image.

It has 5 1/2 segments on the solids, which would mean Titan 34D.

Edit:  Actually it could be a Commercial Titan III (no transtage and therefore no "C" designation)  NASA did buy one for Mars Observer
« Last Edit: January 09, 2010, 07:17:19 am by Byeman »

Offline archipeppe

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #30 on: January 09, 2010, 07:45:25 am »
It has 5 1/2 segments on the solids, which would mean Titan 34D.

Edit:  Actually it could be a Commercial Titan III (no transtage and therefore no "C" designation)  NASA did buy one for Mars Observer

Aha, this makes the things clearer.
I could also arrange a drawing with a Titan 34D....

Offline CFE

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #31 on: January 09, 2010, 10:10:05 am »
My nitpick with the drawings (as beautiful as they are) is seeing only two engines on the NLS core vehicle.  I suppose that NLS would have looked like a stretched Shuttle ET with six engines on the core (the four around the perimeter dropped off like the booster engines on the Atlas.)

Offline Archibald

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Offline Byeman

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Offline FutureSpaceTourist

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #34 on: May 09, 2010, 10:41:40 pm »
In effect the original HL-20 proposal was recycled twice: the first time for the OSP proposal, around 2000, and the second time for the DreamChaser second layout for COTS (taking into account that not fresh new are about it since a couple of years).

Although DreamChaser didn't win an initial COTS award, it has been granted some more recent funding (some details in the DreamChaser thread at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4389.0).

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #35 on: June 28, 2014, 03:30:00 pm »
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline sferrin

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #36 on: July 03, 2014, 12:23:06 pm »
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2014, 03:06:25 am »
Inasmuch as I loved the Dyna-Soar, M2 and X-24 lifting body designs, I always hated this bugger. Looked like a badminton shuttlecock to me!

Offline Triton

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2017, 11:06:35 am »
"HL-20 as a Personnel Launch System"


Offline John Frazer

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2018, 12:51:32 am »
Not at all accurate to say it came from any NASA work originally. It was from the USSR Cold War era space interceptor, the Uragan ("Hurricane"). The competitor to the USAF X-20 Dyna-Soar.

A model was flown to test heat-shield materials for the Buran ("Blizzard") Space Shuttle copy, and the HL-20 was designed from seeing that model. Langley found that it had good stability & control across the needed speed ranges and good landing handling. "Exceptionally benign" thermal characteristics during re-entry.

Lozino-Lozhinsky, working for the MiG design bureau invented the lifting body, named "Lapot" or wooden shoe, for the nose. NASA said it created a stand-off layer in front which kept the intense heat away and everything else was swept behind the Mach cone, as usual for MiG.
MiG-105 test plane made drop tests onto dirt strips with extendable skids, and it made hop flights with fixed wheels under its jet power.
Altogether with the Soviet and NASA Langley work, the HL-20 was very conservatively engineered, very thoroughly worked out and well-understood. It would have put the Shuttle industry out of business, and that's why we didn't use it after the Challenger accident.
It was most definitely "Not Invented Here".

Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-105

Offline Archibald

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2018, 02:58:37 am »
Mostly right, except for THIS

Quote
It was from the USSR Cold War era space interceptor, the Uragan ("Hurricane")

This never existed, and has been long debunked as a blunder by the CIA, that single-handedly invented a spacecraft and a mission (space interceptor) that never existed in the first place.
The BOR-4 and Avion 105 were the offsprings of the Spiral program (1965 - 1977) where the lifting body was stuck to an expendable NK-33 powered rocket booster, itself attached to a mach 5 airbreathing piloted aircraft. The later was later dropped for an An-124, then the An-225, and evolved into System 49, Bizan, and finally MAKS, the tripropellant air launched mini-shuttle.

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Offline John Frazer

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #41 on: April 18, 2018, 03:46:22 am »
"Spiral" was the early name, for what they later resurrected as Uragan, correct? For them, it never progressed beyond that, before the succession of other planes up to the Buran and then MAKS as the intended survivor.
What mistake did the CIA make? Calling it a space interceptor in the '60s instead of a single-orbit bomber in the '80s?
Small matter of difference. They envisaged it with nuclear missiles for targets in the North Atlantic for instance, so it could presumably have functioned as either.

 The fact remains that the USSR early-on did work on a small manned military spaceplane for which the MiG-105 flew tests, and the BOR-4 was a remainder of it, later flown to test TPS for the Buran. That test was the origin of the HL-20 and Dream Chaser


http://www.russianspaceweb.com/spiral_development.html

Offline flateric

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #42 on: April 18, 2018, 05:37:43 am »
"Spiral" was the early name, for what they later resurrected as Uragan, correct?
Not. It never 'resurrected as Uragan'.
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stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: NASA HL-20 lifting body
« Reply #43 on: April 22, 2018, 10:57:06 pm »
Uragan rears it's ugly head again.
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p