Tier II Plus UAV competition

hesham

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Loral, Frontier Systems, Fairchild Systems is believed to be W570.

So there are two remaining competitors:

Raytheon, Lockheed, Allied Signal and Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical, E-systems, GDE systems, Adroit systems.


Does anybody have any additonal material. Also - is anybody able to identify this design, that seems to be the Tier II Plus proposal?
 

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Matej said:
Loral, Frontier Systems, Fairchild Systems is believed to be W570.

So there are two remaining competitors:

Raytheon, Lockheed, Allied Signal and Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical, E-systems, GDE systems, Adroit systems.


Does anybody have any additonal material. Also - is anybody able to identify this design, that seems to be the Tier II Plus proposal?

E-Systems also paired with Grob on an Egrett variant for Tier II+
Read here:
 
Although the Global Hawk and the two Rutan collaborations (Northrop Grumman and Orbital Sciences) are generally known, there were quite a few interesting Tier II+ contenders that sank into oblivion. My favorite is this, from Mission Technologies of Hondo, Texas. According to Flight International 1-7 June 1994, this "twin-wing, twin-boom, twin-engine aircraft would have 24h endurance. With a 28m wingspan, the take-off weight would be 1,600kg".
 

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Cool. I had never seen this. :)
Isn't 1,600 kg a little bit light for this class of vehicle? I mean, the latest Global hawk block 40 carries 1,600 kg of payload.
 

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Awesome find, by all means!!! :eek:
Thank you so much! ;)
 
quellish, that's a GREAT document. Thanks for sharing :)
 
AeroFranz said:
quellish, that's a GREAT document. Thanks for sharing :)

The NG flying wing model is pretty cool :) I wish the 3 views were a little more detailed for the modelers, but you take what you can get.
 
From PDF...

Matej's design above is similar to the Northrop Grumman proposal.
 

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Excellent my dear Overscan,thank you very much.
 
What a great weekend this has been on the forum! Thanks for sharing these Overscan.
Do you confirm that these photos all depict Northrop Grumman proposals? The one at the bottom is very different from the rest.
 
Matej said:
They are the extract from the PDF document - just click the link and take a look.

Oops... I'd stopped halfway through the document (too much to read already!). Wow!
 
quellish said:
Found this today, which should be of extreme interest to anyone on this thread:
http://www.nps.edu/Academics/Institutes/Meyer/docs/A%20study%20of%20reconnaissance%20surveillance%20UAV.pdf

one of the greatest finds for the story of forum, thanks!
 
That Northrop-Grumman proposal... Does it remind anyone else of the YA-9?
 
overscan said:
Matej's design above is similar to the Northrop Grumman proposal.

Similar but not exact. Now I can identify my first image as the IAI HA-13 - early Tier II+ proposal.
 

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The sketch of the Loral bid doesn't show the radomes...a big one on the top and the bottom. Roughly tripled the thickness of the fuselage at that point.
 
There are other significant differencies. For example original W570A had straight trailing edge (only with the end of the wing in angle), while this proposal has the sawtooth.
 
Hi. Wired just posted today a story with early sketches of iconic products ranging from coke bottle to iphone blended with Alfredo Ramirez's Global Hawk project proposal


For those among you interested, the story's here
http://www.wired.com/design/2012/10/early-sketches-of-iconic-objects/?pid=937


and the related image there:


http://www.wired.com/design/wp-content/gallery/ff_patent_ss/ff_patent8_ss.jpg
 
Yes, but the Wired article gets one big fact wrong. Grumman had nothing to do with that aircraft. It's a Teledyne Ryan product (Model 367).
 
Tier II+ proposals from Northrop Grumman, Orbital Sciences and... Martin.

All with Burt Rutan/Scaled at the design helm... ;D
 

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Nice compilation Stephane!


the second picture shows a tail configuration that would later resurface on the Firebird, with the distinctive canted vertical fins.
 
...
 

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Thanks a lot, flateric! Didn't realize the Martin Marietta design had ever been published at the time...

One thing I find interesting is this sentence: "Additionally, one of the designs is a B-2 lookalike".
Since we haven't seen the Loral entry, and since Loral is known to have produced a flying wing UAV later on, can we see this as an indication that the "B-2 lookalike" might be the Loral proposal? Just a thought.
 
current state of NG/Scaled Tier II+ entry mockup
photo (c) David Wirth
 

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Tier II+ competition

1 stage - 14 teams

2 stage - 5 teams

• Loral Western Development Labs; Loral Defense Systems (radar) and Fairchild Systems (EO/IR camera); and Frontier Systems (airframe).
• Northrop Grumman; Westinghouse (radar); Scaled Composites (airframe); Aero-Vironment and PAR Government Systems (sensor integration).
• Orbital Sciences; Westinghouse (sensor payload and the ground station); and Scaled Composites (air vehicle).
• Raytheon Missile Systems; Lockheed Advanced Development (airframe); Task Research and AlliedSignal Aerospace Guidance & Control Systems Group.
• Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical; ESystems; GDE Systems and Adroit Systems.
 
Somewhat on topic: Page 10 has a comparison of real world use of the U-2 vs GlobalHawk
Love that spiky, star-shaped graphic.

Interesting how manned versus unmanned only intersect on targeting accuracy (on the left side of the graph), but the exact targeting accuracy ratio appears on the right side of the graph????????

Also enlightening is the note about 10 pilots getting "bent.".
 
Tier II+ competition

1 stage - 14 teams

2 stage - 5 teams

• Loral Western Development Labs; Loral Defense Systems (radar) and Fairchild Systems (EO/IR camera); and Frontier Systems (airframe).
• Northrop Grumman; Westinghouse (radar); Scaled Composites (airframe); Aero-Vironment and PAR Government Systems (sensor integration).
• Orbital Sciences; Westinghouse (sensor payload and the ground station); and Scaled Composites (air vehicle).
• Raytheon Missile Systems; Lockheed Advanced Development (airframe); Task Research and AlliedSignal Aerospace Guidance & Control Systems Group.
• Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical; ESystems; GDE Systems and Adroit Systems.
1 stage
1). Mission Technologies Inc. (Valkyrie)
2). Motorola / Boeing / Hughes
3). Teledyne Ryan / E-Systems Elpar Division
4). E-Systems Greenville Division / Grob
5). Lockheed / Raytheon
6). TRW / IAI
7). General Atomics
8). Loral / Frontier Systems
9). Martin Marietta / Scaled Composites
10). Northrop Grumman / Scaled Composites
11).
12).
13).
14).
 
Tier 2+ (Tier 2 Plus) -- Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical (TRA)

DARO/ARPA/US Atlantic Command program for a semi-autonomous long endurance surveillance UAV.

The Winning Team Comprises:

- Teledyne Ryan Aeronautical, San Diego, CA (team leader, overall design)

- E-Systems Melpar Div. (ground stations)

- Rockwell International (wings)

- Loral Communications Systems (formerly Unisys)

- Allison Engine Co.

- Hughes Aircraft's Radar Systems and Electro-Optical Systems Divisions

- GDE Systems (mission planning software)

- Heroux Inc., Canada (landing gear)

Some of the Losing Teams were:

- Raytheon/Lockheed Martin

- E-Systems Greenville/Grob Aircraft, (with its EVER drone, based on the Grob D 500)

- Motorola/Boeing/Hughes

- Northrop Grumman

Other Offers:

Competitive offers for less sophisticated, but much cheaper vehicles were made by:

- TRW/IAI, Sierra Vista, AZ
offering the 'E-Hunter', a modified 'Hunter' UAV, equipped with the bigger wing of IAI's 'Heron' long-endurance UAV.

- Mission Technology Inc, Hondo, TX
offering its Valkyrie twin-engined, joined-wing, concept, with a range of 4,500 miles and a speed of 220 kts.

Costs and Schedules:

The Phase Two contract of $164 million (the amount is subject to negotiation) was awarded to Teledyne Ryan by the DoD's Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA) on behalf of the Pentagon's Defense Airborne Reconnaissance Office (DARO).

The complete program may cost up to $500 million.

The unit flyaway price is supposed to be $10 million in FY 1994 dollars.

Phase Two comprises a 31-month, advanced development and flight test program, including the design, building and testing of two advanced development air vehicles and a ground station, followed by a 12-month flight and systems test program.

this is followed by Phase Three, which includes up to eight additional demonstration aircraft and two ground stations, which would undergo a two year operational demonstration.

Congress wanted to add $60 million in FY 1996 to the Tier 2+ program, but the Senate Intelligence Committee (or the House Permanent Subcommittee on Intelligence) now wants to cancel it in favor of more Tier 3- vehicles.
They always wanted to join or consolidate the two projects (Tier 2+ and Tier 3-).

Proposed Technical Data for the Teledyne Ryan Design:

Purpose: non-stealthy, heavy-payload, long-endurance, near real-time battlefield surveillance UAV.

Construction: standard aluminum frame with composite secondary structures, and all composite wing.

Wing Span: 116 ft.

Length: about 40 ft. (compared to 6 ft. person in drawing)

Height: about 12 ft. (compared to 6 ft. person in drawing)

Gross Takeoff Weight: 20,000 - 25,000 lb.

Performance: 24 hours endurance at a range of 3,000 nm. from its base, flying at an altitude of 65,000 ft.

Engine: one modified Allison AE 3007 turbofan, with 7,200 lbf. static thrust at sea level -- currently rated only up to 50,000 ft.

Payload: 1,800 lb, comprising: threat warning and detection, countermeasures (jamming capability and reel-out/reel-in decoy deception system), 48-in. satellite dish for data link (like C-Span), operating in the Ku and UHF frequencies for wide-band data links of near real-time images, video, and targeting data, SAR (Synthetic Aperture Radar, EO (electro-Optical) and IR (InfraRed) sensors.

Source:
http://www.ais.org/~schnars/aero/tier.htm#tier2p
 
Hmm...TRW/IAI entry details in this source is far, far away from HA-13 as described by IAI in their own presentation as Tier II Plus offer and shown above in this thread.
 

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