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Author Topic: Various Arado projects  (Read 29786 times)

Offline hesham

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Various Arado projects
« on: October 29, 2007, 11:24:25 am »
Hi,

The Arado SO-Geret a piloted version of
E.377 flying bomb project.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_aircraft_of_Germany_by_manufacturer
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 05:42:18 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline lark

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2007, 11:44:24 am »
SO Geret must be: SO Gerät -  selbst opfer -Self sacrifying device.

Deutsche Geheimwaffen 1939-1945.
Fritz Hann. Erich Hoffmann Verlag.Heidenheim.1963. u.a.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2008, 03:24:38 am »
Hi guys,

I have this projects pounding my mind for several years, without perspective to have them revealed:

Arado Radial Engined Fighter - Refered by Rudiger Kosin in "The German Fighter since 1915", a response to the soviet Polikarpov I-16, around 1938/39.

1940 project for a carrier-borne torpedo bomber sporting a single DB601, refered by Jorg Armin-Kranzhoff in his book "Die Arado-Flugzeuge: Vom Doppeldecker zum Strahlflugzeug". Does anyone knows more on these?

I wonder if the book from Volker Koos mentions these projects.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2008, 03:39:23 am »
Hi, guys,

I guess this projects are really secret. No one has the Volker Koos book "Arado Flugzeugwerke"»?

Kosin says in his book of the radial engined fighter project: "We then proceeded to draw up a german version ( after inspectiong the "Rata", my note) - a fighter with the air-cooled fourteen-cylinder BMW radial engine ( BMW 139). The aircraft did look something like the the later Focke-Wulf Fw190".
He adds that Walter Blume, as well as the LC II office ( aircraft development ) of the RLM were not enthusiastic, especially regarding the speed given by Kosin ( and I believe Nes): 600-650 km/h.

Bye.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2008, 05:13:51 am »
I have the book "Arado, history of an aircraft company" (J. Kranzhoff, Schiffer pub., 1997). Do you know it or should I check something inside?

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #5 on: June 02, 2008, 03:25:43 am »
Hi Tophe,

many thanks for your reply.I would appreciate that, althoug I think it is just an earlier version of the one I have from the same author. Anyhow, congratulations on your great work on the "fântomes fourchus".

Best regards,

Wurger

Offline Tophe

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2008, 11:06:03 am »
I checked the book but found nothing about your 2 ones. Sorry... :-[

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2008, 12:01:04 am »
Hi Tophe,

thanks anyway. I have another challenge for you guys:

what about the Arado E380? It was a Ar 196 on steroids ( BMW 801, heavier armament ). Does anyone have a drawing, or other technical specifications?

Bye.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2008, 08:29:51 pm »
In the book "Arado, history of an aircraft company": Arado E380 = Ar 196 follow on with folding wings. No drawing of this one.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 03:36:06 am »
Hi everyone,

on the Arado E 380, from "Secret German Aircraft Projects of 1945", Toros Publications, 1997, p.24:

" A low-wing floatplane with faired float attachments intended to replace the Ar196 and powered either by one As402, one BMW 323R-2, or one BMW 801A engine. There are two versions, one armed like the Ar196, the other with 2xMG151/20 (front)+1xMG131(rear)".

From "German Aircraft of the Second World War", Smith/Kay, Putnam, 1972, p.727:
"Floatplane development of Ar196 with folding wings, one 1600hp BMW 801A"

My german is still sketchy, but Kranzhoff`s latest book on Arado refered to a projected started in 1942, closely related to the aerodinamically improved ( with bigger twin floats and already with MG151 ) Ar196 C, intended as a carrier plane ( traegerversion ), with better protection and armament. An Argus As411 was to power this bird at 383km/h. Project of 1943.

Some of this data does not match entirelly, but it would be interesting to know more on the Ar196C and the Ar E380.


Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2013, 04:54:47 am »

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2013, 01:05:54 pm »
Hi Hesham,
 
not exactly what I had in mind... ;)
 

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2013, 05:00:35 pm »
Topics merged.

Here is the Arado E 580, the company's proposal for the "Volksjäger" competition (from the MBI book on the He 162).

Quote
The E 580 concept was quite similar to the winning proposal from Heinkel, however, it was a low-wing aircraft with significantly higher technological demands.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 05:19:28 pm by Stargazer2006 »

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #13 on: November 21, 2013, 04:59:17 am »
Hi,


here is from Waffen-Arsenal 56,the Arado Ar.240 fitted with jet engine.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2013, 03:34:26 pm »
Hi,


here is the first prototype for Arado Ar.240,please note the location of the cockpit,it
was over the wing center-section.




Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2014, 06:04:07 am »
Hi,


from Luftfahrt 3/1980,here is the landing gear system for Arado TEW 16/43-13
and TEW 16/43-15 projects.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2014, 04:02:39 am »
From Projekt, Kleinst-Jager report,


here is the Ardao E.580 drawing with some details.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2015, 06:04:04 am »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2015, 11:16:55 am »
Just splendid!

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2015, 11:47:58 am »
Interesting document, many thanks indeed !

Just a side note, but I recently got an issue of Flugzeug Classic (Special 5), featuring an article
about the Ar 232 and one point caught my eye: The landing gear. Most photos and drawings
(in that document, too) show the main wheels and the nose wheel on the same level with the
row of small supporting wheels under the belly. But actually the landing gear already was lowered
then. When fully extended, the supporting wheels had no contact to the ground, as can be seen
on the attached photo from the mentioned mag.
 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #20 on: March 13, 2015, 02:34:58 pm »
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 02:40:18 pm by hesham »

Offline Johnbr

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2015, 03:23:01 pm »
 ;)
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 03:29:36 pm by Johnbr »

Offline Bill Walker

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2015, 04:20:54 pm »
My understanding was that the Arados used the conventional tricycle gear for takeoffs and landings, and lowered themselves onto the multiple small tires for loading/unloading, and manuevering on less than ideal surfaces for said loading/unloading.
Bill Walker

Offline shaba

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #23 on: March 13, 2015, 07:50:41 pm »
http://www.flying-things.ch/RESERVE2/arado248.gif

Hello i found this unknown design said to be an arado design does anybody have any knowledge of a pusher aircraft by arado?
http://www.flying-things.ch/RESERVE2/arado248.gif
« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 02:15:00 am by Jemiba »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #24 on: March 14, 2015, 02:08:10 am »
My understanding was that the Arados used the conventional tricycle gear for takeoffs and landings, and lowered themselves onto the multiple small tires for loading/unloading, and manuevering on less than ideal surfaces for said loading/unloading.

Honestly, I haven't thought about it before and most documents show it lowered to the auxiliary wheels.
But take-off/landing certainly only were possible with the legs fully extended.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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« Last Edit: March 14, 2015, 04:50:52 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2015, 05:51:19 am »
From; Secret Nazi Aircraft 1939 -1945 Luftwaffe's Advanced Aircraft Projects


it's the first time to know that,the Arado Project II,had a V-tail early variant ?!.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2015, 05:24:11 pm »
And I don't understand,


there was a V-tail variant or not ?.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2015, 04:57:06 am »
Thank you Newsdeskdan.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2015, 11:38:58 am »
Fabulous document, newsdeskdan! Thanks a lot for sharing.

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2015, 01:47:49 pm »
No problem. You a fan of the Arado E.340 Skyblazer?

I generally love the Arado projects and this one is no exception. Thanks!

Offline Felda

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2015, 12:34:55 am »
And what about Arado Ar-440? Was this plane ever built? Some drawings can be found, bud no photos ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2015, 04:39:37 am »
And what about Arado Ar-440? Was this plane ever built? Some drawings can be found, bud no photos ...


Hi Felda,


yes,it was built,and here is its picture and drawing.

Offline Flitzer

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #33 on: August 31, 2015, 07:11:09 am »
Hi all.
I'm back. Added a few old profile plates.


Cheers
P
"Madness is the normal condition, only interupted by spells of sanity"

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #34 on: August 31, 2015, 10:45:27 am »
Welcome back your return my dear Flitzer

Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #35 on: August 31, 2015, 10:46:31 am »
Good work as always!
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #36 on: June 30, 2016, 03:38:31 pm »
Oh flying wing aircraft. It's breathtaking. Is this a dinosaur of an undiscovered new kind? ;D
I can't find vertical tail stabilizer. :o
justo-san, do you know this design?
I can see complicated wing plan view, radar, foreward 4 cannons, rear 2 cannons, 2 jet engines, two seats(perhaps side by side forward looking two seats and side/backward looking one seat), landing gears, fuel tanks and 2 rectangler engine air intake located wing root leading edge.
Three seats night/bad weather interceptor?

Can you see Schräge Musik between jet engines?
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 12:16:53 am by blackkite »

Offline Apteryx

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2016, 08:36:28 pm »
Wow--really impressive. Looks to be outfitted w. the usual HeS011 engines.

Offline Avimimus

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2016, 08:39:56 pm »
Oh flying wing aircraft. It's breathtaking. Is this a dinosaur of an undiscovered new kind? ;D
I can't find vertical tail stabilizer. :o
justo-san, do you know this design?

Isn't this "P.1"? If so it may have small triangular stabilisers on the wing (just outboard of the images).

Offline Zizi6785

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2016, 01:32:03 am »
Beautiful plane!

Similar to Project 1., but different air intakes and engines, and no vertical tail stabilizer!

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #40 on: August 17, 2016, 11:42:26 am »
From my file,with now source up to now,

Arado Zerstorer was a twin engined attack jet aircraft Project of 1943,powered by two Jumo 012
jets,mounted at the front of the fuselage,has anyone hear about it ?,it was little known design.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 11:45:55 am by hesham »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2016, 02:30:49 pm »
Interesting!! Thanks a lot.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #42 on: August 26, 2016, 11:01:24 am »
Wow,oh my God,

many thanks my dear Dan,and something wrote on fifth drawing,what was it ?.

Offline Zizi6785

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #43 on: August 27, 2016, 08:22:54 am »
Hi Dan,
Thank you for drawings!
Now you can write a new book with these pictures :)

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #44 on: August 27, 2016, 10:14:36 am »
My dear Dan,

it's Arado Entwurf I exactly,I have a drawing to Ent I in detail,what's the different?.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #45 on: August 28, 2016, 05:43:30 am »
Many thanks my dear Dan.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2016, 08:55:01 am »

here is from Waffen-Arsenal 56,the Arado Ar.240 fitted with jet engine.

In my files,also Arado Ar.440 was fitted with one jet engine as Ar.240,but all those ideas were rejected by RLM in 1943.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #47 on: December 04, 2016, 04:36:20 am »
Here is the Arado E.381/III.
(from Waffen-Arsenal 118 - Bachem Ba 349 Natter)
« Last Edit: December 05, 2016, 12:35:36 am by Jemiba »

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2016, 07:54:45 am »

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2017, 01:26:53 pm »
Arado E 208. Presumably a forerunner of the Ar 96. This is the least weird version.

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2017, 02:19:13 pm »
Arado E 208. Presumably a forerunner of the Ar 96. This is the least weird version.

Wow,you made my day.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2017, 02:39:06 pm »
Least weird? Keep pumpin´ oddities, please!

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2017, 03:12:47 pm »
I don't want to post up everything but here's a taster. You'll notice the unusual prone observer position...

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #53 on: March 23, 2017, 01:57:16 am »
Does any of the drawings field an arrester hook? Arado proposed a carrier-borne trainer based on the Ar96.

Offline Hood

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #54 on: March 23, 2017, 02:16:38 am »
Would the version with a prone observer be a forerunner of the never-built Ar 96C? I believe that was meant to be a dive-bomber trainer (if my memory is correct).

Offline Foo Fighter

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #55 on: March 23, 2017, 02:47:27 am »
Is therer a clearer version of those pictures please?

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #56 on: March 23, 2017, 04:53:12 am »
Is therer a clearer version of those pictures please?

Nope. These are slightly scaled down (due to secretprojects.co.uk's upload filesize limit) versions of pin-sharp 600dpi scans of the only known paper originals. These were buried in the back of the pristine condition original brochure so I can only presume that the original standard of reproduction just wasn't that good. Bear in mind this is a 1936 brochure, when repro tech was fairly primitive in some instances.

Offline Zizi6785

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #57 on: March 23, 2017, 06:37:41 am »
Little ps

Offline elmayerle

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #58 on: March 24, 2017, 08:42:54 pm »
1940 project for a carrier-borne torpedo bomber sporting a single DB601, refered by Jorg Armin-Kranzhoff in his book "Die Arado-Flugzeuge: Vom Doppeldecker zum Strahlflugzeug".
This sounds more like the Fi-167 that the Ar-195 lost out to for equipping the Graf Zeppelin and follow-on aircraft carriers.  Arado's design had a radial engine while Fiesler's winning design used a DB601.  The AR-195 was a biplane while the Fi-167 was a strut-braced high-wing monoplane (I'd argue that neither looked as good as the contemporary SBU-1).

Offline Arjen

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #59 on: March 25, 2017, 01:46:54 am »
Fi 167 was a biplane. Fi 156 Storch was a high-wing monoplane.
<edit> At some time during 1943/1944, three Fi 167s had most of their lower wings removed.
From 'Warplanes of the Third Reich' by William Green:
Quote
The Fi 167s were returned to Fieseler for overhaul, three subsequently being delivered to the Fahrwerkserprobungsstelle der DVL [Deutsche Versuchsanstalt für Luftfahrt], the DVL's undercarriage test centre at Budweis [České Budějovice], where they were used for measuring landing shocks under various load conditions, flying both in standard biplane configuration and as highly-loaded sequiplanes, the lower mainplanes being detached immediately outboard of the undercarriage, additional struts supporting the upper mainplanes.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2017, 08:57:51 am by Arjen »

Offline sienar

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Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #61 on: March 25, 2017, 12:30:01 pm »
Hi

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #62 on: March 25, 2017, 02:22:13 pm »

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #63 on: March 26, 2017, 08:42:39 am »
From; Arado - Geschichte eines Flugzeugwerks

here is a picture for Arado J 1,a little known torpedo bomber monoplane prototype of 1929.

Offline richard

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #64 on: March 26, 2017, 12:05:53 pm »
This was not a prototype : Only a project .
The picture shows a (well done) model .

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #65 on: March 26, 2017, 02:30:03 pm »
Thank you my dear Richard,

and here is a more Info about it;

Quote
In early 1926 the Arado company built a so called "Streuflugzeug" = Crop Duster. It was a special low wing plane with a thick profile and a prominent V-shape, A.J.I.. The containers for the chemicals  was housed in the wings to achive a wide pattern of spraying and to avoid to hit the fuselage. This aircraft was however not further developed. In 1929 a mockup for a single seat torpedo bomber, the J 1, was made with a similarity with the former crop duster. It should have a BMW engine. The low wing design was suitable for two torpedoes under the wing.. The attachments for the wingstruts were used for the suspension point for the torpedoes. This design was not demanded by the military. During the development work the cover name was "Streuflugzeug".

http://histaviation.com/ar_j_1.html

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #66 on: March 28, 2017, 05:42:20 am »
Also from Arado - Geschichte eines Flugzeugwerks,

I don't know if that design was a Project to Arado or just illustrated drawing ?,it created by W. Blume.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #67 on: March 28, 2017, 07:11:01 am »
The upper drawing (in attachmen t 3)  shoes a design from 1930 by W. Blume for gun mount powered
by air vanes, to be used in a twin seat fighter.
Next drawing is remote controlled tail turret, designed by Kurt Bornemann, with electric booster and sight
outside of the pressure cabin
Next drawing is a design by W. Blumefor a remote controlled tail gun.
Next is a gondola for two 20 mm Rh.Lb.202 guns and the last drawing shows a remote controlled tail gun
with periscope sight. all by W. Blume.
In no case the type of aircraft is mentioned.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #68 on: March 28, 2017, 08:58:34 am »
Thank you my dear Jemiba,

but the drawing itself was not a Project for Arado right ?.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #69 on: March 28, 2017, 09:19:07 am »
The drawing shows typical characteristics of Arado types, especially the rudder and
shape of the cowling, similar to the Ar 66. But the Ar 66 was built as a trainer from
1932 onwards, so I don't think, that there are relations to this drawing from 1930.
The shown twin seat fighter would have been in a class with the Hawker Demon and
I don't know of a similar type designed by a German company, so I suppose, that just
a "typical Arado type" was drawn to show this weapon installation.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #70 on: March 28, 2017, 09:52:05 am »
Many thanks to you my dear Jemiba.

Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #71 on: May 04, 2017, 12:55:20 pm »
The upper drawing (in attachmen t 3)  shoes a design from 1930 by W. Blume for gun mount powered
by air vanes, to be used in a twin seat fighter.
Next drawing is remote controlled tail turret, designed by Kurt Bornemann, with electric booster and sight
outside of the pressure cabin
Next drawing is a design by W. Blumefor a remote controlled tail gun.
Next is a gondola for two 20 mm Rh.Lb.202 guns and the last drawing shows a remote controlled tail gun
with periscope sight. all by W. Blume.
In no case the type of aircraft is mentioned.


All from the same 1941 report, which has Walter Blume's name on the cover, about Arado gun position designs. I'm not sure that he actually designed any of them himself. Here's a selection from among the many illustrations - some you've seen, others maybe not.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2017, 12:59:07 pm by newsdeskdan »

Offline hesham

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2017, 02:48:02 pm »
Thank you my dear Dan,

and as I know,Mr. Blume designed anther Project for Arado in about 1930,do you know it ?.

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2017, 02:52:25 pm »
Thank you my dear Dan,

and as I know,Mr. Blume designed anther Project for Arado in about 1930,do you know it ?.

I'm not sure anyone knows that much about Arado's early projects. This report had 'Walter Blume' on the cover but covers several years of work by the whole Arado team (and some of the images are actually of British aircraft for comparison - Blume didn't design those!). Exactly what Blume did or did not design personally is going to be very difficult to determine, I think. What did you make of the Arado 1941 flying wing design (last image)?

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #74 on: May 05, 2017, 02:10:53 am »
That`s exactly what I was thinking about: the flying wing bomber in the last picture! 1941? Super! Does the report include other power operated turrets?

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #75 on: May 05, 2017, 02:54:41 am »
That`s exactly what I was thinking about: the flying wing bomber in the last picture! 1941? Super! Does the report include other power operated turrets?

It includes a ton of turrets. Those photos of the E 500's turrets are in there too.

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #76 on: May 05, 2017, 03:31:20 am »
Is there a chance to have it (partially) published in one of your future publications?

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #77 on: May 05, 2017, 04:16:24 am »
Thank you my dear Dan,

but that means there was Arado flying wing bomber Project,at first I thought it was E.500 fuselage only.

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #78 on: May 05, 2017, 05:12:49 am »
Thank you my dear Dan,

but that means there was Arado flying wing bomber Project,at first I thought it was E.500 fuselage only.

Some of the images do show the E 500 fuselage, but others don't. That one is labelled Studie über die Profilabmessungen eines Nurflügel- Kampfflugzeuges mit Ikaria Kanonen or 'Study of the profile dimensions of a flying wing bomber with Ikaria cannons'.

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #79 on: May 05, 2017, 05:33:19 am »
Thank you my dear Dan,

but that means there was Arado flying wing bomber Project,at first I thought it was E.500 fuselage only.

Some of the images do show the E 500 fuselage, but others don't. That one is labelled Studie über die Profilabmessungen eines Nurflügel- Kampfflugzeuges mit Ikaria Kanonen or 'Study of the profile dimensions of a flying wing bomber with Ikaria cannons'.

That's new Info for me,thank you my dear Dan,and here is the same drawings from Arado book.

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #80 on: May 05, 2017, 05:45:35 am »
Thank you my dear Dan,

but that means there was Arado flying wing bomber Project,at first I thought it was E.500 fuselage only.

Some of the images do show the E 500 fuselage, but others don't. That one is labelled Studie über die Profilabmessungen eines Nurflügel- Kampfflugzeuges mit Ikaria Kanonen or 'Study of the profile dimensions of a flying wing bomber with Ikaria cannons'.

That's new Info for me,thank you my dear Dan,and here is the same drawings from Arado book.

The fact that the E 500 fuselage drawing is shown alongside that Ar 240 drawing makes me think that they both come from the same source - that 1941 turrets report. Otherwise, it'd be tempting to believe that somewhere out there is a dedicated E 500 report.
Meanwhile, here are some more of the report's many illustrations.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2017, 05:50:42 am by newsdeskdan »

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #81 on: May 05, 2017, 01:48:47 pm »
Is it just me or the turrets with Ikaria(MG FF) and Rh 202 were intended to have a rangefinder? I browsed the Zeiss Archiv and found this:

http://www.archive.zeiss.de/hzeig.FAU?sid=56F634D4165&dm=3&dokref=3&ref=3495&auft=Raumbildentfernungsmesser+1+m+mit+Wandermarke+%28Disimi%29%2C+1939++

a 1m base stereo rangefinder in a turret mount, without gun/guns.

I knew about the intention to mount a Zeiss steroscopic telemeter in the Henschel HS 124 to help aiming a 37mm cannon. I guess it still are at the same above website.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #82 on: May 06, 2017, 09:46:15 am »
The link provided does not led us to the right page. I will try to upload the pictures from the impressive Zeiss Archiv, located here:

https://www.zeiss.com/corporate/int/history/archives.html

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #83 on: May 06, 2017, 12:30:49 pm »
The link provided does not led us to the right page. I will try to upload the pictures from the impressive Zeiss Archiv


That does look very much like the device shown in Abb 26!

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #84 on: May 07, 2017, 03:25:46 am »
I reckon it would be a hard task to locate and aim using such a device B).

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #85 on: June 30, 2017, 02:14:20 pm »
I don't know if this is a commonly known about thing - Messerschmitt Bf 110 C/U1 with Arado Ar 240-style upper and lower remote control turrets fitted.

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2017, 03:24:10 pm »
I don't know if this is a commonly known about thing - Messerschmitt Bf 110 C/U1 with Arado Ar 240-style upper and lower remote control turrets fitted.

I don't remember if it is new for me or not,I will check.

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #87 on: July 01, 2017, 01:32:26 am »
New to me, although the Me110 was used to test the Me 210 gun side barbettes. The caption says it also had reinforced wings and smaller radiators.

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #88 on: July 01, 2017, 11:46:52 am »
I'm sure I have seen a photo of a Bf110 with these turrets...or is my mind playing ricks on me? :o

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #89 on: July 01, 2017, 01:24:00 pm »
I'm sure I have seen a photo of a Bf110 with these turrets...or is my mind playing ricks on me? :o

I've seen a photo of a Bf 110 with an upper turret and if I recall correctly it was labelled as a Bf 110 D. It wasn't evident from the photo that the aircraft also had the lower turret fitted but it might well have done. This document has a werknummer on it, so it's entirely possible that the photo does in fact depict this design. Maybe more photos exist showing the lower turret as well?

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #90 on: July 01, 2017, 03:09:45 pm »
I would love to see a photo of that Me110 with turrets. My sources (Smith/Kay) mention a Bf 110C-2/U1 with the said Me 210 barbettes. Griehl states a Bf110 V5 prototype used by Arado from July 1940. No mention on "Willy Messerschmitt - Pionier der Luftfahrt...".

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #91 on: July 01, 2017, 05:53:33 pm »
I've seen photos of the 210 style barbettes apparently on a front line aircraft for combat trials.

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #92 on: July 02, 2017, 02:45:15 am »
Found via Google Image Search.
Quote
Zeigt eine Versuchsbewaffnung an einer Bf 110 D/U1 (RB+GL), an der die ferngesteuerte Abwehrbewaffnung mit zwei MG 81 Z für die Arado Ar 240 getestet worden...
The original source on the server is temporarily suspended.
Link: http://www.germanluftwaffe.com/archiv/Dokumente/ABC/m/Maschinen%20Gewehre/MG%2081/mg%2081%20z%20maschinen%20gewehr.html
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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #93 on: July 02, 2017, 08:22:52 am »
Very interesting stuff, thanks!

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #94 on: July 02, 2017, 11:04:09 am »
From Mankau and Petrick Bf110, Me210,Me410

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #95 on: July 02, 2017, 11:50:11 am »
Thanks Jon - those were the ones I was thinking of.  Glad to see it wasn't my brain playing tricks on me... :)

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #96 on: April 04, 2018, 12:08:19 am »
Something on the arado E.381

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #97 on: April 04, 2018, 12:43:44 am »
... and again: Please ALWAYS mention the sources for pictures !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #98 on: April 04, 2018, 01:35:29 am »
Something on the arado E.381
[...]
... and again: Please ALWAYS mention the sources for pictures !
Picture: http://www.flying-things.ch/RESERVE2/e381%20schnitt.jpg
Source: http://www.flying-things.ch/Giftzwerge.htm
Unfortunately no information regarding the primary source.  :-|
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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #99 on: April 04, 2018, 01:42:50 am »
Something on the arado E.381
[...]
... and again: Please ALWAYS mention the sources for pictures !
Picture: http://www.flying-things.ch/RESERVE2/e381%20schnitt.jpg
Source: http://www.flying-things.ch/Giftzwerge.htm
Unfortunately no information regarding the primary source.  :-|

Just another sketchy copy of the Arado original (attached). Source: My Luftwaffe: Secret Jets of the Third Reich bookazine.
« Last Edit: April 04, 2018, 01:50:26 am by newsdeskdan »

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #100 on: April 04, 2018, 02:24:07 am »
Slightly offtopic: armament of Arado Ar-240.

I wonder, if the Arado considered to design or build unarmed version of Ar-240?

IMHO, with it's very clean aerodynamic shape and relatively small size, this aircraft in recconnaissance role could be used in the same mode, as Mosquito. Also, most that I knew about this type, represent the implementation of quite sophisticated (and space and weight consuming) remote-controlled defence system and it's gunner.

For example, Ta-154 (being a fighter) or FW-187 (fighter, too) completely lacks defensive armament. From other hand, messershmitte "family" of Zerstorers have always been equipped with rear-firing guns.


Offline newsdeskdan

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #101 on: April 04, 2018, 02:45:46 am »
Slightly offtopic: armament of Arado Ar-240.

I wonder, if the Arado considered to design or build unarmed version of Ar-240?

IMHO, with it's very clean aerodynamic shape and relatively small size, this aircraft in recconnaissance role could be used in the same mode, as Mosquito. Also, most that I knew about this type, represent the implementation of quite sophisticated (and space and weight consuming) remote-controlled defence system and it's gunner.

For example, Ta-154 (being a fighter) or FW-187 (fighter, too) completely lacks defensive armament. From other hand, messershmitte "family" of Zerstorers have always been equipped with rear-firing guns.

There was a day-intruder version of the Ta 154 with a rear turret (see attached) and I seem to recall a version of the Fw 187 with one too. Arado tried pretty much every role for the Ar 240 so there was probably an unarmed version. Then again, Arado developed the virtually unassailable Ar 234 reconnaissance platform fairly early on, so they may have thought there was no need for an Ar 240 in that role.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2018, 05:07:44 am by newsdeskdan »

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #102 on: April 04, 2018, 01:35:58 pm »
Slightly offtopic: armament of Arado Ar-240.

I wonder, if the Arado considered to design or build unarmed version of Ar-240?

IMHO, with it's very clean aerodynamic shape and relatively small size, this aircraft in recconnaissance role could be used in the same mode, as Mosquito. Also, most that I knew about this type, represent the implementation of quite sophisticated (and space and weight consuming) remote-controlled defence system and it's gunner.

For example, Ta-154 (being a fighter) or FW-187 (fighter, too) completely lacks defensive armament. From other hand, messershmitte "family" of Zerstorers have always been equipped with rear-firing guns.

I thought several were stripped of armament and used in recon over England?

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #103 on: April 05, 2018, 05:03:59 am »
According to Kranzhoff, Ar 240 V3-V6, A-04/U2, V7, V8, V9, V10 and V11 were all eventually used for reconnaissance in one form or another. The status of their armament is unclear but it looks as though they might have kept their lower turrets, though not the upper ones?
He quotes Blume as saying the Ar 440 could be shifted "to clean recon role with BMW 801 J".

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #104 on: August 20, 2018, 03:28:53 am »
This looks like an Arado 234 Bomber?

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Re: Various Arado projects
« Reply #105 on: August 20, 2018, 03:36:57 am »
Yes, Ar 234 C with RATO units and a bomb under the fuselage, a scale model of course. :)