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Author Topic: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"  (Read 108594 times)

Offline flateric

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #30 on: October 17, 2007, 02:38:09 am »
Patch was sold (not to me) at eBay recently by a person who was say...highly involved in YF-23 flight tests. This is eBay lot photo, sorry, I haven't higher resolution. Person - on certain reasons - didn't want give any detailed information on Ninja project. Project Ninja discussion thread is here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2245.0.html
« Last Edit: October 17, 2007, 02:40:09 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #31 on: November 10, 2007, 02:10:54 pm »
I would tend to think of this program as Senior Citizen as well. But I do recall that for a while, Steve Douglass used to have a picture of a "stealthy" transport plane on his site that sort of looked like a jet powered C-130. It's engines were mounted in the fuselage, but on top of it and the intakes, IIRC, were just around the wing trailing edge. Another way of llooking at it, the engines were sort of a dorsal mounted pod that was blended with the fuselage. The tail was mounted above it.

I think I downloaded the drawing, but I don't know if I can find it now. I'll look.

From another source "...nowhere in there was there any talk about a special [С-130] series that had wing-tip "whisper" jet engines...the props were turned off, and they just circled for many hours....used in Vietnam a great deal...not shown..."

Was it glitch or someone have heard rumors like this?

"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline hesham

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #32 on: January 14, 2008, 09:51:15 am »
Hi,

the McDonnell Douglas VSTOL transport and VSTOL tilt-prop aircraft.

http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1988/1988%20-%200934.pdf
« Last Edit: March 15, 2011, 04:57:20 am by hesham »

Offline flateric

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #33 on: February 02, 2008, 09:34:34 pm »
From

STOVL aircraft for shipboard operation
Yackle, A.R. (Lockheed Advanced Development Co., Sunland, CA)
AIAA-1992-4215

Now it's clear what has that PopSci artist as a starting point...apart from LM patent posted by LO
http://www.popsci.com/military-aviation-space/article/2006-10/top-secret-warplanes-area-51
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 11:52:16 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline hesham

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #34 on: April 02, 2008, 05:39:57 am »
Hi,

here is the Northrop B-2 in vertical lift concept.
http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/2002/2002%20-%201596.html

Offline flateric

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #35 on: April 29, 2008, 11:25:45 am »
Found it in another FATE-related program paper ca.1997
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline quellish

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #36 on: March 23, 2009, 01:51:58 am »
I've read somewhere on the net that Senior Citizen scetch on which Matej made his beautifuk drawings, was made by anonimous Boeing employee...any details of this story? Where first info of tht stuff appeared, does anyone know?

I have seen the line drawing which I assume Matej based his renderings on in official Northrop documents. I know of one occasion where they even appear in AvWeek (early 1990s article on Northrop's Hawthorne "skunk works").

Offline quellish

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #37 on: March 23, 2009, 01:59:12 am »
Little more job for Matej...Lockheed Skunk Works SOA study - again 1990...of course, I must mention Lockheed's patent that LowObservable posted here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,413.msg21595.html#msg21595  ;)

Nicolai, L.M., et al
“Special Operations Aircraft (SOA) Design Study”, Technology Exploitation Directorate
WRDC-TR-W-XXXX, January 1991

Lockheed USED to have a photo of a variant of this on their PR/Media site, I may have a copy somewhere with a cryptic file name. It was not described on the PR site with anything related to the above study.

Offline Matej

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2009, 04:51:03 am »
I hope that you will find this copy  :)

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline flateric

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2009, 07:06:13 am »
copies, I'd say
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Desert Dawn

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #40 on: March 24, 2009, 05:46:22 pm »
Who other than Matej knows  :D  There is a problem, because we are talking about two different designs. I made my drawings from scetch that I received from my reliable source in USA. Similar but smaller I later found here: http://members.macconnect.com/users/q/quellish/Other/other.html

Info about "employee cause" can be found in another Skunk Works Digest (v05.n395):

"The picture is of a turbofan powered, low-observable ('Stealth') V/STOL advanced tactical transport design, and is taken from the technical paper "Technology and design considerations for an advanced theater transport", 1990, by Richard Wible, Technology Exploitation Directorate, Wright-Patterson AFB. This may be similar or very close to Program Element 0401316F, SENIOR CITIZEN. In the same GIF is a picture of a Boeing "Advanced Theater Transport" aircraft design, provided by Rick Pavek (kuryakin@arn.net)."

This is the reason why I was so surprised, when you sent me bigger one with name that suggests, that it is not Boeing but Lockheed design.


Well, now that would be quite a surprise... (!)  I have seen drawing of that aircraft quite a number of times (something badly reproduced line drawing which looked difformed) but with 2 major differences: the underside and wing as well as propulsion system looked like it was a waverider !!  There was a clear engine module typical of hypersonic aircrafts underneath (no over-fuselage inlet nor fans). And, guess what.. ? When i was quizzing Prof. Cszyz several years ago during my research about 'Aurora' and what the shape of a true hypersonic aircraft looks like, after exchanging many little drawings and reference paper titles, he pointed me to that one and said: THAT is the shape of a typical hypersonic aircraft. I was dubious at first, because i know his answers are often like Russian dolls, dubious because i thought this project was too recent and might have been conceived After Aurora..  Well... now i see the same shape all over again, but now with VTOL fans and what not.. surprising. Why would they use a waverider shape to propose a VTOL stealth transport... One of those two must be disinformation if you ask me.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 05:54:26 pm by Desert Dawn »

Offline flateric

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #41 on: March 24, 2009, 08:34:39 pm »
interesting, that giant VTOL SOFA promoted in 'Monsters vs. Aliens' ;)






« Last Edit: March 24, 2009, 08:36:35 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline OM

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #42 on: March 25, 2009, 04:45:31 pm »
...A stealth Super Guppy! You'd think only Gerry Anderson would have tried something like this  ;D

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Secret Stealth VTOL Transport - "Senior Citizen"
« Reply #43 on: March 26, 2009, 09:29:30 am »
We should start attibuting the more fanciful designs to OKB Andreyevich.

Offline flateric

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"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works