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Author Topic: Air-launched missile defence concept  (Read 23799 times)

Offline marauder2048

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #45 on: January 18, 2018, 01:58:56 pm »
Griffin interested in airborne missile defense
By: Aaron Mehta 

WASHINGTON – The man poised to become the first ever undersecretary of defense for
research and engineering supports investing heavily in airborne missile defense and directed
energy weapons, as well as new ways of moving technology from theory to production.

Michael Griffin, the former NASA administrator up for the R&E job, faced few tough questions
during his nomination hearing Thursday, but did give insight into some of the areas he may
focus on after what appears to be an inevitable confirmation.

Asked about the feasibility of airborne boost-phase missile defense, Griffin expressed strong
support for the idea, calling it “very feasible” to develop the technology, which he said would
be particularly useful against a country like North Korea.

“It was feasible many years ago to do it. What we have lacked in the missile defense arena
until recently was the will, not the technology, not the means,” Griffin said.


The idea of airborne missile defense systems has become more popular in recent months,
with members of Congress pushing the Pentagon on such ideas as arming drones with lasers
that, in theory, could take out a just-launched ICBM. Analysts have questioned how feasible
such technology is, and the Pentagon appears to be in just the early stages of experimenting
with the concept.

Griffin acknowledged that interest from the Hill outstrips that from inside the Pentagon,
saying  “Congress is leading the department, ahead of the department on this. And if confirmed
you will not be ahead of me in your advocacy for this capability. I strongly support such [technology].”

He also showed support for directed energy weapons, saying that laser technology has been
“given that less priority, by far, than I think it deserves.”

...

https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2018/01/18/griffin-interested-in-airborne-missile-defense/

Offline sferrin

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #46 on: January 18, 2018, 04:27:18 pm »
"he idea of airborne missile defense systems has become more popular in recent months,
with members of Congress pushing the Pentagon on such ideas as arming drones with lasers
that, in theory, could take out a just-launched ICBM. "

When I read this I can't help but think, "if a 747, with it's megawatt+ laser and giant beam director couldn't make the case, what hope does a Reaper-esque drone have?"
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #47 on: January 18, 2018, 08:55:27 pm »
"he idea of airborne missile defense systems has become more popular in recent months,
with members of Congress pushing the Pentagon on such ideas as arming drones with lasers
that, in theory, could take out a just-launched ICBM. "

When I read this I can't help but think, "if a 747, with it's megawatt+ laser and giant beam director couldn't make the case, what hope does a Reaper-esque drone have?"
Scott, has there been any studies on 'tail chase' missile technologies from an air launched platform that includes missile size, weight, speed, etc. requirements. I know a lot would depend on range from target and many other factors but curious if you've seen anything?
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

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Offline sferrin

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #48 on: January 19, 2018, 10:41:07 am »
"he idea of airborne missile defense systems has become more popular in recent months,
with members of Congress pushing the Pentagon on such ideas as arming drones with lasers
that, in theory, could take out a just-launched ICBM. "

When I read this I can't help but think, "if a 747, with it's megawatt+ laser and giant beam director couldn't make the case, what hope does a Reaper-esque drone have?"
Scott, has there been any studies on 'tail chase' missile technologies from an air launched platform that includes missile size, weight, speed, etc. requirements. I know a lot would depend on range from target and many other factors but curious if you've seen anything?

I've seen very little in the way of actual hardware concepts for air-launched boost phase intercept.  NCADE wasn't meant for launching against large ballistic missiles (mostly because it's range was relatively short and the targets would be too far away at launch).  Then this one but I don't know if it went anywhere:


"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline bobbymike

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Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline DrRansom

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #50 on: January 25, 2018, 11:43:24 am »
"he idea of airborne missile defense systems has become more popular in recent months,
with members of Congress pushing the Pentagon on such ideas as arming drones with lasers
that, in theory, could take out a just-launched ICBM. "

When I read this I can't help but think, "if a 747, with it's megawatt+ laser and giant beam director couldn't make the case, what hope does a Reaper-esque drone have?"

I think the theory is a largish missile, perhaps PAC-3 size, but mounted on a stealth aircraft orbiting above the mobile missile operating region. I suspect the CONOPs is to surge Boost-Phase-Intercept drones into the enemy airspace while ground attack aircraft seek out the launchers. The missile interceptors give some protection against any launchers that escape the TEL hunt.

Offline sferrin

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #51 on: January 25, 2018, 12:14:05 pm »
"he idea of airborne missile defense systems has become more popular in recent months,
with members of Congress pushing the Pentagon on such ideas as arming drones with lasers
that, in theory, could take out a just-launched ICBM. "

When I read this I can't help but think, "if a 747, with it's megawatt+ laser and giant beam director couldn't make the case, what hope does a Reaper-esque drone have?"

I think the theory is a largish missile, perhaps PAC-3 size, but mounted on a stealth aircraft orbiting above the mobile missile operating region. I suspect the CONOPs is to surge Boost-Phase-Intercept drones into the enemy airspace while ground attack aircraft seek out the launchers. The missile interceptors give some protection against any launchers that escape the TEL hunt.

Except that by the time the decision to even move drones out of their hangars is made the missiles in question will be GONE.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline marauder2048

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #52 on: January 25, 2018, 12:29:25 pm »
Except that by the time the decision to even move drones out of their hangars is made the missiles in question will be GONE.

The mobile missile threat was so acute in the 80's that the Regan administration authorized overflight of the Soviet Union
prior to the outbreak of hostilities; no reason that authorization couldn't make a comeback.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 12:32:53 pm by marauder2048 »

Offline sferrin

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #53 on: January 25, 2018, 01:43:07 pm »
Except that by the time the decision to even move drones out of their hangars is made the missiles in question will be GONE.

The mobile missile threat was so acute in the 80's that the Regan administration authorized overflight of the Soviet Union
prior to the outbreak of hostilities; no reason that authorization couldn't make a comeback.

You'd need something with a lot of stealth and very high speed weapons.  And a lot of them.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline DrRansom

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #54 on: January 25, 2018, 01:45:41 pm »
You'd need something with a lot of stealth and very high speed weapons.  And a lot of them.

Something like the Skunk Works Persistor? Mach 2 flight into enemy airspace and then high altitude stealthy loiter. That's a wildly expensive program.

The BPI drone use case is, I think, a counter-force strike launched in an escalating crisis against North Korea. The problem is that such a system only increases the pressure on KJU to launch earlier.

Offline sferrin

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2018, 03:54:44 pm »
I never really understood the notion of B-2s flying over the USSR looking for ICBM-carrying trains.  The missiles would be long gone before the B-2s arrived, and how much endurance would they have overhead anyway?  IMO you either need a long-endurance drone with very high speed, long range AAMs operating at the edge of the country's airspace (and it needs to be a SMALL country), or lasers in space. 
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline marauder2048

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2018, 04:20:23 pm »
I never really understood the notion of B-2s flying over the USSR looking for ICBM-carrying trains.  The missiles would be long gone before the B-2s arrived, and how much endurance would they have overhead anyway?  IMO you either need a long-endurance drone with very high speed, long range AAMs operating at the edge of the country's airspace (and it needs to be a SMALL country), or lasers in space.

Wasn't AARS supposed to provide targeting data for depressed trajectory SLBMs (possibly with a terminally guided MaRV) ?

We can add to that the other ICBM-based counter-strategic relocatable target weapons
which IIRC, were PBV bi-static radar guided MarV and an ICBM deliverable cruise missile .
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 04:32:32 pm by marauder2048 »

Offline DrRansom

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2018, 05:49:37 pm »
I never really understood the notion of B-2s flying over the USSR looking for ICBM-carrying trains.  The missiles would be long gone before the B-2s arrived, and how much endurance would they have overhead anyway?  IMO you either need a long-endurance drone with very high speed, long range AAMs operating at the edge of the country's airspace (and it needs to be a SMALL country), or lasers in space.

Or a Mach 3 air launched cruise missile...

Offline sferrin

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #58 on: January 26, 2018, 04:31:46 am »
Or a Mach 3 air launched cruise missile...

Doubt even that would make a difference. 
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline George Allegrezza

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Re: Air-launched missile defence concept
« Reply #59 on: April 11, 2018, 09:00:53 am »
https://www.aps.org/units/fps/newsletters/201804/north-korea.cfm

Long (12,000 word) treatise by Ted Postol on North Korean ballistic missile capabilities and a potential BPI system using Reapers equipped with 600 Kg, 4 km/s interceptors with an additional 2 km/s divert capability in the KV.

Scroll to the end for the BPI info.  In terms of preamble, there's a lot on rocket science, the potential sources of the North Korean technological advancements that underpinned the 2017 ICBM "breakout", and a discussion of how those various technologies were combined and adapted, plus some characteristic shade for GMD and, delightfully, the Grey Lady.