Register here

Author Topic: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants  (Read 48234 times)

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2012, 04:49:14 am »
Saved from an old split topic, this Focke-Wulf Fw 190 V19 project:

Offline Madoc

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2014, 07:50:45 am »
Hello all!
 
I thought I'd ping the folks here to check this out.
 
Do any of you know if the Luftwaffe ever experimented with Lorin ramjets by mounting them on the wingtips of a FW-190?
 
Thanks!

Offline Justo Miranda

  • Secret Projects Master
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 3369
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #32 on: February 12, 2014, 11:44:06 am »
Here...

Offline Michel Van

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 4055
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #33 on: February 12, 2014, 12:55:09 pm »
What was the Idea behind this concept ?
just like P-51D with Marquardt ram engine, getting more speed ?
and is this the origin for the P-51D Ramjet test in 1946 ?
I love Strange Technology

Offline Justo Miranda

  • Secret Projects Master
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 3369
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #34 on: February 12, 2014, 01:05:08 pm »
Hight altitude performance ,Fw 190 A-10 variant

Offline Bill Walker

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 482
  • Per Ardua ad Nauseum
    • Canadian Military aircraft Serial Numbers
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #35 on: February 12, 2014, 02:09:05 pm »
Were the engines ever used in flight?  You would want to be really REALLY sure both engines came on at exactly the same time, and went off at exactly the same time.
Bill Walker

Online martinbayer

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 382
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #36 on: February 12, 2014, 02:41:13 pm »
What was the Idea behind this concept ?
just like P-51D with Marquardt ram engine, getting more speed ?
and is this the origin for the P-51D Ramjet test in 1946 ?

This site claims the plan was to test the engines intended for the Triebfluegel concept: http://paralympic-ph.com/germanvtol/tribflugfolder/drawing3.html

Martin
« Last Edit: February 12, 2014, 02:45:50 pm by martinbayer »
Would be marching to the beat of his own drum, if he didn't detest marching to any drumbeat at all so much.

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7872
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #37 on: February 12, 2014, 09:34:52 pm »
Seems nevertheless to be quite an immature idea to me. As Bill pointed out, small delays in
starting an engine, or differences in the produced thrust would have been very dangerous,
probably fatal. And what I once read about testing of the Lorin engines (on the back of Do 17/
Do 217) thrust setting wasn't very sensitive. Putting a single engine under the belly probably
would have been safer for the test pilot.
 
But many thanks for that link, Martin.   
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Online CJGibson

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1107
  • GSATH is coming
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #38 on: February 12, 2014, 10:25:29 pm »
A ramjet for the Spitfire was looked at in 1940, again in 1944 and the RAE flew a Mustang I with twelve RAE PD.1 ramjets in 1944. See BSP.4 Ch.10.

A lot of parallel evolution went on in this field, so suspect that was the case with the US Mustang project. Plus US ramjet effort was ahead of everyone else in 1945 anyway.

Chris 

Offline Justo Miranda

  • Secret Projects Master
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 3369
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #39 on: February 13, 2014, 07:50:19 am »
Hi

Offline Madoc

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #40 on: February 13, 2014, 01:08:42 pm »
Okay, so, it was real, then?
 
At least "real" in concept, right?
 
I ask as I just picked up a model kit of such a configuration and the other items by the same manufacturer, Bird Models, seemed more like post-war "Luft 46!" inventions than anything actually worked up during the war.

Offline Justo Miranda

  • Secret Projects Master
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 3369
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #41 on: February 13, 2014, 02:02:33 pm »
Real project,please see attached microfilm with Focke Wulf logo and 1/144 model from Paul Malmassari.

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7872
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #42 on: February 13, 2014, 09:53:09 pm »
As Martin found on that site about that site mentioned above, this installation was meant as a test
for the Triebflügel project. If that's correct, the model with its armamnet and paintwork would be more a "whif",
not to disparage the skill of the modeller.
I would think, with regards to shape and size of that ramjet, it was the same type, as envisaged for the Triebflügel
and probably more powerful, than those actually fitted to the wingtips of the P-51 and F-80 (The former test aircraft
is mentioned as having been lost here http://www.enginehistory.org/f-80tj.shtml, anybody knows the reason ?).
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Online martinbayer

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 382
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #43 on: February 14, 2014, 07:37:21 am »
There's a bit more alleged background information (mostly in German, without a source quote) in the item description at this Ebay sale of a corresponding model kit modification: http://www.ebay.de/itm/Focke-Wulf-Fw-190-A-10-Lorin-1-72-Bird-Models-Bausatz-/231096384882

Relevant (translated) text passages:

"Model kit of a projected but not realized research aircraft for high speed flight, the Focke Wulf FW 190 A-10 Lorin"

"When
Focke Wulf was designing its Triebflügel, it began the development of small, powerful ramjet engines. In order to test them, a high-performance airplane was to be used, since ramjets begin to work only at a minimum speed of 300 km/h. For this purpose, it was decided to convert a Focke Wulf FW 190 A-10 series aircraft, so that an engine would be mounted on each wing tip. Thus, it was hoped to bring the engine to series production, and this construction was also seen as an important milestone in the development of the actual Triebflügel design. The project failed partly due to the lack of availability of the engines, and on the other hand, the RLM did not want to provide a test aircraft."

"
This airplane had been projected in 1944 for testing the ramjets for the FW Triebfluegel. Because ramjets are [sic, obviously a 'not' missing] working until a speed of min. 300 km/h, it was planned to test the ramjets on a high power airplane like the FW 190."

Martin
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 08:10:47 am by martinbayer »
Would be marching to the beat of his own drum, if he didn't detest marching to any drumbeat at all so much.

Offline Madoc

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: Focke Wulf Fw 190/Ta 152 Projects & Variants
« Reply #44 on: February 14, 2014, 01:15:25 pm »
Good.  I'm feeling better about my purchase then!  I like "what ifs" and all manner of paper projects - but they have to be real paper projects and not some imaginings conjured post-war.
 
As to armament on the test aircraft, would an unarmed German plane - even one conducting test flights - be a wise choice?