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Author Topic: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions  (Read 15767 times)

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2008, 03:11:54 pm »
On the 380 I have the background info and some drawings, but not detailed

I have a small drawing of the Corsaro that I believe is the same that has been published once and again.
I am also adding some information on the Caproni Vizzola MCT. It is a very interesting fighter design. It could either have the Alfa 101, D.B. 605 or Reggiane L.105 engines located behind the pilot with a Bugatti style lateral power shaft

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2008, 11:47:37 pm »
Justo you're great!!!! (Justo tu es mas grande!!!!).

Offline red admiral

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2008, 04:05:19 am »
Mr Miranda,

I'm curious as to why in the section view of the Ca.183 you included a radial engine behind the pilot. Most sources state that it was a Fiat A.30 inline.

Included is a piece of an article on the Ca.183/Re 2007 in Italian. It includes more details of the powerplant system, allowing the DB 605 to produce 1250hp at 15000m!

Also, do you happen to have any information on the Alfa-Romeo 101 engine pictured?

Thanks
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 04:09:03 am by red admiral »

Offline Andrewjs2007

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2008, 05:13:48 am »
Justo

Could you re-post the 3rd image in your post on the Caproni-ZVizzola FCM?

I get only the top of the image when I try to view/download it

Cheers

ANdrew

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2008, 06:01:51 am »
The Vizzola fighter is the famous Trigona project... drawings has been lately published in "Gente dell'Aria 4".
The 101 is the Alfa 1101. Extensive coverage in Ali Antiche June and December 1996. Interesting engine, BTW, an unconventional design. Have photos. Planned for use in the mysterious Alfa Pomigliano 1902, probably a re-elaboration of the AU MB-902 by Bellomo. The L-105 was a high-altitude derivative of the L-103, the compressor rating at a normal altitude of 10000 mts. Have drawing.
Italian high-altitude fighter designs late in the war are an interesting topic. The DB-605 was involved in two different configurations, one with a A30 driven compressor with burner (like in the Re-2005SF and R), the other with an exhaust gas turbocompressor, like in (perhaps) the Caproni Vizzola (again) Sagittario I of march 1943; that was probably the 605 D.
Ahah, Nico is one of the major responsibles of the Re-2007 legend... even if now is backing down, a little at a time... ;)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 01:49:10 pm by Skybolt »

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2008, 06:14:32 am »
Found it ! I knew I had it ! An inboard and plan of the 183. Will post this night, stay tuned. Don't have scanner here.

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #21 on: January 17, 2008, 01:42:25 pm »
Mmmmm Justo, I think you'll have to rework your drawing..  ;). Start new thread.
And the colour camouflage is all wrong: first, by the time the Ca-183bis would have been flying it'd be 1944, and already in 1943 the camouflage was dark green overall. Besides this, fantasy for fantasy, a high altitude fighter would have gained little from a mediterranean low-altitude camo...  ::)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 01:52:28 pm by Skybolt »

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #22 on: January 17, 2008, 03:10:32 pm »
I think you'll have to rework your drawing..  ;).

That is what usually happens when working with insufficient information. All the articles I have read on the Ca-183 bis say that it had a RADIAL engine A-30. As the A-30 is an in line, I assumed that it was a typo and that the author actually meant A-80. That and the diagram of the first Campini project lead me to thinks that the air-intakes were to refrigerate the back engine.

It does not matter, thruth is always best. I will gladly rebuild the drawing.

Thanks for your valuable information!

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #23 on: January 17, 2008, 03:13:00 pm »
Most sources state that it was a Fiat A.30 inline.

I have three different sources saying that the Fiat A.30 was a radial engine with 700 h.p. and all of them were wrong. The Fiat A.30 was an in-line V-12 water cooled engine!

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2008, 03:15:06 pm »
Could you re-post the 3rd image in your post on the Caproni-ZVizzola FCM?

Sure, I repost the third drawing

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #25 on: January 17, 2008, 03:18:06 pm »
The Vizzola fighter is the famous Trigona project...

I could not find the Spanish publication that was the original source for the MCT drawings.
I bought the drawing from Bon Banka http://www.bobsairdoc.com code Sb5553/OD a couple of years ago.
Perhaps our friend Pometablava may help identify the source........

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #26 on: January 17, 2008, 03:19:27 pm »
(Justo tu es mas grande!!!!).

That is not Justo, my friend. I am out of my turf in this forum, I just came here to learn.

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #27 on: January 17, 2008, 04:19:46 pm »
Drawings and data of the Caproni Vizzola MCT (Monoposto Caccia Trigona) come from IARB (Italian Branch of Air Britain) 1/1974 written by Rosario Abate who in turn found them in the Caproni archive (where they remain). The entire collection on CD of IARB (which was the ancestor of Aerofan, and completely written in English, heroic times of the Italian aviation history research) is available on my friend Giorgio Apostolo site (www.apostoloeditore.com) . In Gente dell'Aria 4 there is an additional couple of drawings, an inboard profile and a 3-view of the MCT  with the L-105 engine, from Rosario too.
Augh !

Offline borovik

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #28 on: January 18, 2008, 12:11:54 am »
Most sources state that it was a Fiat A.30 inline.

I have three different sources saying that the Fiat A.30 was a radial engine with 700 h.p. and all of them were wrong. The Fiat A.30 was an in-line V-12 water cooled engine!
Confirm the rightness Mr. Miranda. From abovementioned me (p.1) of the source follows that FIAT A.30 (700 hp) was radial.
Express ALL gratitude for extensive material.!
« Last Edit: January 18, 2008, 12:29:48 am by borovik »

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Caproni Ca.133 unbuild versions
« Reply #29 on: January 18, 2008, 01:21:39 am »
This is definitive: the A30 was an inline. Period. See attached and here (if you really need it):http://www2.polito.it/strutture/cemed/museovirtuale/memoria/4-02/4-201/42010306.htm, the A30 is the last down on the right.