Register here

Author Topic: AvPro Projects  (Read 76226 times)

Offline GTX

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2511
  • All hail the God of Frustration!!!
    • Beyond The Sprues
AvPro Projects
« on: May 13, 2006, 07:54:34 pm »
Hi folks,

Does anyone have detailed information upon the AVPRO Proteus Modular ulti-Role (MMR) standoff weapon?



Any detailed information on other AVPRO proposals would be appreciated as well.

Regards,

Greg

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10785
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2006, 11:39:07 am »
I believe Avpro was a concept company mainly consisting of Mike Ryan? I don't recall they produced anything except pretty oil paintings of impractical ideas...
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline TinWing

  • What-if addict
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 861
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2006, 05:39:24 am »
I believe Avpro was a concept company mainly consisting of Mike Ryan? I don't recall they produced anything except pretty oil paintings of impractical ideas...

Air International has occasionally used some to that interesting oil-on-canvas artwork.


Offline Golfus

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Lo que diga Don Manué
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2006, 03:40:45 am »
A long, long time ago, I found this conceptual artwork of a proposed "Super Harrier" in the excellent site navy-matters.beedall.com, It was, in fact, a faceted AV-8, but is a design that can boost one´s imagination. If anyone has more drawings/illustrations and data of this lost project, it would deserve a post.


Offline flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8551
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2006, 03:46:14 am »
That's UK company called AVPRO (RIP) concept. In common, practically all the company did were graphic concepts of what-ifs aircraft systems, some very pretty.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2006, 03:48:06 am »
I know this picture from "Warplanes of the future", more or less an Avpro
public relations brochure. When I got this book, I tried to make a 3-view
of this design, but IIRC it was hardly metioned in the text, so I think, it
was more a designers phantasy ...
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Golfus

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 44
  • Lo que diga Don Manué
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2006, 04:37:48 am »
Really cool drawing. Thanks a lot!

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2057
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2006, 04:57:49 am »
Vraiment bien! Now I know what to do of this Airfix Harrier T-10 I bought three months ago  ;D. Thanks again!!!
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline elmayerle

  • Aerospace Engineer
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1204
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2006, 11:35:55 am »
I'll have to do some digging, but I think that I've seen some similar concepts float out of St. Louis.  More later after I get home and check the files.

Offline TinWing

  • What-if addict
  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 861
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2007, 09:39:53 am »
Back in early 2000, AVPRO released two CD-ROM discs containing artwork of various "design studies."  AVPRO produced a number of very speculative oil-on-canvas paintings of UAVs, stealth and VSTOL aircraft. 

Today, even the former www.avpro.co.uk domain name seems to have been sold on, and the company is apparently defunct?

Does anyone out there have AVPRO Volume 1 and Volume2 CD-roms?

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22001
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2007, 10:09:40 am »
Hi Tin Wing,

I don't have those CD,but for two projects to AVPRO see this;
http://www.aiaa.org/tc/vstol/unbuilt/index.htm

Offline GTX

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2511
  • All hail the God of Frustration!!!
    • Beyond The Sprues
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2007, 11:01:40 am »
Hi folks,

I too am after these CDs and am willing to pay money for them if need be.  I have a couple of the books with AVPRO's designs in them:

"Warplanes of the Future"  by Mike Ryan (Former AVPRO CEO) and David Oliver; and
"X-Planes" by the same pair

Regards,

Greg

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2007, 12:29:42 pm »
One of the CD's was completely about the Marauder concept, as I was told
via mail, when I asked about infos about this concept. But the price seemed
much to high for me then ...  ::)  All those concepts looked very interesting,
nevertheless, they all were quite far away from realisation .. so I invested in
other material. Nevertheless, I spent quite a time to try to make drawings
of the Avpro designs, but I regard most of this concepts mostly as "art" in
the meantime .   
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline pometablava

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 3306
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2007, 12:59:07 pm »
Great drawings Jemiba, thanks for sharing ::)

Offline gammaslave

  • CLEARANCE: Restricted
  • Posts: 1
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2007, 04:12:59 am »
I recently had a bash at modelling the FOAS-2. At the time I only had one pic to go on.

Here was the result of working from just the one pic.





Enjoy

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2007, 08:01:45 am »
Great !
In "Warplanes Of The Future" is a top and a front view, but even with
them, you couldn't have done much better, as both drawings seems
not to relate to the artist's impression in several respects.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Archibald

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2057
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2007, 10:20:09 am »
I saw this model in the whatif forum some weeks ago. A-WE-SOME !!! :-*
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #17 on: February 18, 2007, 12:47:47 pm »
Some more Avpro drawings...
As the Ryan/Oliver book very often was quite avaricious with dimensions and
even with descritions, I mostly used the captions of the pictures in the book
and tried to get lenght/span from details like armament, often the missiles carried.
As a result, today I see this more as "what-If", than as real concepts.
- FOAS concepts, including one shown in a manned and unmanned variant
- Sea Harrier replacements
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #18 on: February 18, 2007, 12:53:20 pm »
... and a design, described as "interceptor with forward swept wings",
- a stoppable rotor transport
- and three UCAV concepts, including one VTOL UCAV and the best known,
because shown in several publications, the Archangel, which was intended
for air-to-ground as well as for air-to-air missions
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Trident

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 781
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2007, 02:29:20 am »
That FOAS model is great - looks exactly like the kind of thing you might get if you were careless enough to lock a YF-23 and Su-34 in the same hangar unattended ;) Nevertheless, it has a rather pleasant shape.

Offline amsci99

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 238
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2008, 01:52:27 am »
First saw their illustrations of their concept fighters, WIGs and VTOLs with RAF roundels in David Oliver's book, 'Warplanes of the Future'. They later had a website hawking their wares (CD-R) containing illustrations and concepts on their website. Now that their website is gone for good, I wondered what happended to them. Strangely Stavatti of the F-26 Stalma fame is still in business or at least has a web presence.

Offline flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8551
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2008, 02:49:13 am »
Don't know...last traces I've seen are these
AVPRO Limited
PO BOX 9128 ACTON London W3 6GE UK
TEL 44 (0) 207 495 6565
FAX 44 (0) 207 394 5349

Email: mikeryan@avpro.co.uk

Farnborough Office

Avpro Limited
Farnborough Innovation Centre
Northgate Road
Farnborough, Hampshire, GU14 6TW

Tel: +44 (0)1252 550040
Fax: +44 (0)1252 550101

U.S. Office

AVPRO Aerospace Inc.
PO Box 15680
Long Beach
CA 90815 USA

Tel: +1 (562) 420-7488
Fax: +1 (562) 420-7644

Email: avproaerospace@mindspring.com
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline GTX

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2511
  • All hail the God of Frustration!!!
    • Beyond The Sprues
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2008, 01:00:27 pm »
I think they died.  Mind you, if anyone has any of their CDs, I'd be very interested in getting a copy.

Regards,

Greg

Offline Barrington Bond

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 927
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2008, 02:03:29 pm »
Ditto to the CD,s ;D
"It hasn't squeaked in a week!"

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22001

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2008, 01:28:12 pm »
The first 4 are old Avpro designs and the helicopter is from a Popsci article.

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2009, 01:43:39 pm »

While were atsrayed from the path, why not give it some more thought. Instead of LCAC or LCU, the ship could also house Manta or Marauder WIG designs (images from "Warplanes of the Future"):







So, what do you guys think of it.  ;)

What would be the maximum operational ceiling of a WIG vehicle such as the Avpro Manta or Marauder? I have seen photographs of WIG vehicles operating over water, but can they operate over land as well? Do they require open terrain? Is there any serious interest in WIG vehicles?

Offline XP67_Moonbat

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2151
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2009, 03:34:33 pm »
I used to love those AvPro artworks back in the day. ;D
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline hole in the ground

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 238
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2009, 04:08:20 pm »
WIG aircraft mostly I believe can 'fly' out of WIG'E' but it is more efficient for them to stay in it. I would imagine that flying over level ground would be more effective and produce a higher maximum WIGE height as there will be some displacement of water. WIGE is however limited to around 0.1 of the wingspan (that is a value off the top of my head, i stand by to be corrected on that). So operation over land that is not a desert of some description (or siberian esk plains) is probably going to have to be above the height of WIGE.

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2009, 09:48:35 pm »
At least the Marauder wasn't intended as a pure WIG, but as a kind of
Jack-of-all-trades. It was shown as a long range interceptor and an
AEW-aircraft, too
(see http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1492.0/highlight,avpro.html)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2009, 03:18:05 pm »
For those who don't know Avpro was a British company that for the most part produced pretty pictures. There was also a book - "Warplanes of the Future" which - besides an badly orientated picture and some 3-view drawings which didn't match up - was a pretty good read. As far as I know the only product they produced was a mock-up for their EXINT pod.

Since the company is now defunct I don't see any reason not to share these images. The order is the same as on the disks, so here we go.

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2009, 03:19:49 pm »
And more

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2009, 03:21:26 pm »
And more

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2009, 03:22:56 pm »
And more

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2009, 03:24:46 pm »
And more

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2009, 03:27:30 pm »
Some of these are actually very interesting. The transport plane landing is one of my favourites.

Offline Orionblamblam

  • Secret Projects Guru
  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 7071
    • Aerospace Projects Review
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2009, 03:30:17 pm »
So just the hell *was* the story with AvPro, anyway? They cranked out a bucketload of art... but is that all they were? Or were they a serious company with serious people?
Aerospace Projects Review


And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2009, 03:32:45 pm »
If anyone has any idea what is stopping the FSW attack helicopter from spinning let me know. I can't see any tail rotor or other anti-torque device.

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2009, 03:36:10 pm »
As far as I know they were a serious company. They had funding from somewhere. The ideas were good but there were no real products.

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2009, 03:38:40 pm »
And more

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #40 on: March 16, 2009, 03:40:45 pm »
Couple of pics of a really nice trainer in this lot

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #41 on: March 16, 2009, 03:45:10 pm »
Nearly there

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #42 on: March 16, 2009, 03:55:48 pm »
And the last two. 89 images in total. The covers carried discriptions of the images but for the most part they're pretty self explanatory. The book contains more information( http://www.amazon.com/Warplanes-Future-David-Oliver/dp/1840650850/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1237243383&sr=8-1 )

Offline Abraham Gubler

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 3559
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #43 on: March 16, 2009, 04:39:01 pm »
If anyone has any idea what is stopping the FSW attack helicopter from spinning let me know. I can't see any tail rotor or other anti-torque device.

It could be a tip powered rotor that would not generate torque.

I don't know about the legitimacy of AvPros concepts. They all seem to be designed for asthetic appeal rather than actuall engineering. You can always tell a real engineering based concept - it is weight balanced for centre of gravity issues - unlike these tip heavy artist drawn concepts.
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

Offline Woody

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 288
  • Passionate about the advancement of technology
    • http://www.freewebs.com/ian_francis_wood/
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2009, 05:19:30 pm »
Thanks Dragon 72 - fantastic stuff. Though nothing gets old faster that yesterday's view of the future, some these represent wonderful might have beens - a bit like what would have happened if the dinosaurs hadn't become extinct.

It seams incongruous to uses oil and canvas for engineering concepts but beautiful non the less. Were all the paintings by the same artist?

Looking forward to a time when visionaries (not just corporations) become fashionable again.

Cheers, Woody

PS. what exactly is going on with that UAV, ship, flightdeck, fan thingy? Is it sucking or blowing? ;D

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #45 on: March 16, 2009, 07:21:55 pm »
The WIG (wing in ground effect) concepts are pretty cool. IIRC, they are named Manta and Marauder in Warplanes of the 21st Century.

Their future Harrier painting made me believe that McDonnell Douglas and BAE Systems were working on a new Harrier and I was thinking that either one of these companies was the source of the art.

I like the winged attack helicopter.

Thanks for sharing the images dragon72;D

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2009, 10:48:26 pm »
Many thanks dragon !
AvPro, I think, was kind of a "think tank", the only design, that could be
called a "project" probably was the exint pod, or maybe the Proteus modular
cruise missile.
My favourite always was the Marauder, are there any dimensions given on those CDs ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline pometablava

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 3306
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #47 on: March 17, 2009, 12:28:18 am »
Thanks Dragon72, this pics are fantastic!

Offline Merv_P

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 115
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2009, 06:06:48 am »
A really interesting archive; thanks for posting these.


Offline Trident

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 781
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #49 on: March 17, 2009, 10:35:03 am »
Ok, I'll bite: what is the point of transporting a blonde in casual clothes and her beauty case around in a personnel pod on a Harrier?!

Someone had to ask!

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #50 on: March 17, 2009, 12:09:26 pm »
Ok, I'll bite: what is the point of transporting a blonde in casual clothes and her beauty case around in a personnel pod on a Harrier?!

Someone had to ask!

Transporting comfort women to the front lines? Extracting personnel assets involved in honeypot intelligence operations? Joking aside, I wonder if they are attempting to illustrate that the EXINT pod is a comfortable way to fly?  ;)

Offline V8Interceptor

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #51 on: March 17, 2009, 06:14:47 pm »
The Exint pod concept wound up in POPULAR MECHANICS. I once asked a USMC AV-8B driver at an airshow what he thought about it. He told me he had heard of the idea but he said the Corps. would never risk a Harrier with that type of mission...I imagine though the system would have come in handy when the RAF had to send AH-64s to extract some Royal Marine Commandos (the famous photo of Commandos hanging on the stub wings)..

Offline yasotay

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1843
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #52 on: March 17, 2009, 06:55:01 pm »
Wonderful post.  Thanks so much for sharing!

Offline OM

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 753
    • OMBlog
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #53 on: March 17, 2009, 07:55:48 pm »
Quote
He told me he had heard of the idea but he said the Corps. would never risk a Harrier with that type of mission...

...One must remember that refusing to risk a Harrier is not the same as refusing to risk a Jarhead in one of those pods. They're crazy enough to ride in one!  ;D ;D

Offline Creative

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 241
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #54 on: March 17, 2009, 08:20:05 pm »
Thank you for sharing all that dragon :) I had the book once but lost it during a move.

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #55 on: March 17, 2009, 08:32:31 pm »
Ok, I'll bite: what is the point of transporting a blonde in casual clothes and her beauty case around in a personnel pod on a Harrier?!

Someone had to ask!

New way of travelling for the wealthy.

You've tried limos. You've tried executive helicopters. Now try Personal PodTM. Travel into that hot war zone or business meeting in rexaled style via Harrier, attack helicopter or any other craft with a Mil Standard hardpoint. Get yours today.

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #56 on: March 17, 2009, 10:36:46 pm »
"I wonder if they are attempting to illustrate that the EXINT pod is a comfortable way to fly?"

I think, we shouldn't discuss that point too much, otherwise maybe someone could
have an idea ...  ;D
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10785
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #57 on: March 17, 2009, 11:13:22 pm »
Ok, I'll bite: what is the point of transporting a blonde in casual clothes and her beauty case around in a personnel pod on a Harrier?!

Someone had to ask!

A bit of R&R for the troops, perhaps???
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline shockonlip

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 605
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #58 on: March 20, 2009, 11:15:58 am »

Thanks Dragon72 !!

Great stuff !!


Offline RavenOne

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 141
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2009, 02:34:15 am »
Dragon 72

FSW concept from what i saw, would be no different to the NASA / Army S-72 RSRA /X Wing project.

Offline RavenOne

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 141
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #60 on: April 01, 2009, 02:36:32 am »
As far as I know they were a serious company. They had funding from somewhere. The ideas were good but there were no real products.

Funding came from MoD, DoD, the then DERA now Qinetiq. I nearly went for job interview there during my finals at uni when i was studying aerospace systems. Mike Ryan , who was then the joint owner with David Oliver (formerly of Air Forces Monthly) personally rang me up.

Offline donnage99

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 951
  • "Robert Gates, is that you??" sublight
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2009, 01:22:27 pm »
anyone got a better quality or another picture of this "super harrier" impression?
« Last Edit: August 06, 2009, 12:09:00 pm by overscan »

Offline dragon72

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 63
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #62 on: July 03, 2009, 04:10:32 pm »
Here you go.

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #63 on: October 19, 2010, 11:28:30 am »
AVPRO artist's impression representing a BAE Systems Future Offensive Air System (FOAS) strike aircraft concept.

AVPRO artist's impression of Manta WIG landing craft, hydrofoil armored personnel carrier (APC), and umanned reconnaissance aerial vehicle (URAV).

Source:
http://www.zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/fotos-y-videos-de-fuerzas-aereas/11579-fotos-ineditas-y-dificiles-fotos-118.html
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 05:54:51 pm by Triton »

Offline OM

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 753
    • OMBlog
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #64 on: October 20, 2010, 10:30:39 am »
...Excellent finds, Triton! The FOAS one just screams for a FP kit.

Offline mithril

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #65 on: October 23, 2010, 08:43:23 pm »
this is awsome, i've been looking for good images of most of this stuff. in terms of real world, it's garbage..but it make wonderful roleplaying game fodder...

Offline Nik

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 382
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #66 on: October 24, 2010, 05:35:06 am »
I'm still bemused by that WIG (I hope !!) with bow doors and dorsal helipad.

To be honest, most look like concept art for a videogame...

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #67 on: October 24, 2010, 02:57:35 pm »
I'm still bemused by that WIG (I hope !!) with bow doors and dorsal helipad.

To be honest, most look like concept art for a videogame...

Most of the AVPRO concepts look like they might function for the missions for which they are designed, unlike the designs that seem to make their way into computer/video games and motion pictures created by graphic artists, not aerospace engineers. The AVPRO Manta does seem like a credible WIG design to me. The Manta was designed to operate solely in ground effect (IGE) mode.

Quote
Powered by four turbofan engines, the Manta landing craft WIG could travel at speeds of up to 350 mph (565 kmh) carrying a 60-ton payload up to 350 nautical miles. The craft would fly over the sea at an altitude of approximately  15 ft (4.5 m). It can operate in sea states up to level 5.





Source:
Oliver, David and Ryan, Mike. Warplanes of the Future London: Salamander Books. 2003. pp.83-84.

This AvPro Manta WIG craft has the same payload capacity as the Landing Craft Air Cushion (LCAC) hovercraft operated by the US Navy and the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force, but with greater range and speed. This craft can be operated from the well dock of an amphibious warfare ship.

In addition to operating as a landing craft, the craft can also be used for high-speed maritime transport and search and rescue/MEDEVAC.

In comparison, the maximum payload of the Boeing C-17A Globemaster III is 77 tons.

The LCAC can operate at 30 kts at sea state level 3.

Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landing_Craft_Air_Cushion
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 04:51:11 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #68 on: October 24, 2010, 04:40:30 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO Air Support Catamaran (ASCAT).

The Air Support Catamaran (ASCAT) mini-carrier could operate STOVL aircraft, helicopters, and unmanned combat/reconnaissance aerial vehicles (UC/RAV) close to a beachhead. ASCAT can provide a limited air support capability for low intensity conflicts, where a ground attack, reconnaissance, or air defense capability would be desirable for countries that cannot afford the enormous investment in an aircraft carrier.

Source:
Oliver, David and Ryan, Mike. Warplanes of the Future London: Salamander Books. 2003. p. 106.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 04:51:32 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #69 on: October 24, 2010, 04:59:30 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO Stealth Trimaran Aircraft Carrier (STAC) concept.

The 40,000 tonne (44,092 US tons) STAC could operate an air wing of up to 55 aircraft using both ski-jump for STOVL aircraft and a 450 ft (140 m) long diagonal flight deck for launching CTOL aircraft.

The STAC concept has a very low radar cross section (RCS), its profile being that of a small ship, making it extremely difficult to detect. The stealth aspects of the design are meticulous, with every part of the ship's design being scrutinized for maximum effect. To contribute to its low RCS, even the integrated mast on the carrier's superstructure has no exposed moving parts, while exhaust from the ship's engines is vented through the sides of the inner and outer hulls, considerably reducing thermal signature.

The portside flight deck is equipped with an electromagnetic rail launch system for CTOL aircraft operations. At the stern of the ship is a rotating flight lift, known as a Skyrocker, for rapid re-arming and stowing of aircraft, similar in operation to automated car parking systems currently being used in Europe and Japan.

The Trimaran's design allows the STAC to reach speeds in excess of 40 knots and provides greatly stability in high seas, making flight operations safer than currently possible on current monohull carrier designs.

Source:
Oliver, David and Ryan, Mike. Warplanes of the Future London: Salamander Books. 2003. pp. 106-107.






« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 10:25:43 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #70 on: October 24, 2010, 05:27:37 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO Marauder.

The ground attack version of the Marauder used to launch cruise missiles is capable of flying in and out of ground effect even over desert terrain when ingressing and egressing the target.



Powered by two advanced turbofans, the two-seat conventional flight Marauder would be an ideal stealthy maritime strike or close air support platform.



Although the configuration of the Marauder is not suitable to close range dogfighting it could carry stand-off air-to-air missiles such as the AIM-120 or the proposed FMRAAM (Future Medium Range Air to Air Missile).



Source:
Oliver, David and Ryan, Mike. Warplanes of the Future London: Salamander Books. 2003. p. 82.

« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 10:04:16 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #71 on: October 24, 2010, 05:38:46 pm »
A heavy-weight armed version of the Manta powered by four advanced 7,500shp propfan engines would utilize power augmented ram (PAR) to increase lift and gross take-off weight (GTOW).



Source:
Oliver, David and Ryan, Mike. Warplanes of the Future London: Salamander Books. 2003. p. 86.

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #72 on: October 24, 2010, 06:00:38 pm »
Artist's impression of twin-engined AVPRO CVTOL-1 Future Carrier-Borne Aircraft (FCBA) concept. CTOL and VTOL variant can be built from the same airframe like the US Joint Strike Fighter (JSF). Note AVPRO STAC aircraft carrier concept seen in the background.







Artist's impression of single-engined AVPRO CVTOL-2 Future Carrier-Borne Aircraft (FCBA) concept. Note AVPRO STAC aircraft carrier concept seen in the background.



« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 09:19:53 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #73 on: October 24, 2010, 06:12:33 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO FOAS-1 aircraft concept that could be produced in single-seat manned or unmanned versions.








Artist's impression of twin-engined AVPRO FOAS-2 aircraft concept that could be produced in twin-seat manned or unmanned versions.



« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 06:41:09 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #74 on: October 24, 2010, 06:18:05 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO X-wing Titan a notional contender for the US Joint Transport Rotorcraft (JTR).




« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 06:37:00 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #75 on: October 24, 2010, 06:22:59 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO Advanced Future Airlift concept, perhaps a notional competitor to the US Advanced Theater Transport.




« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 09:20:43 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #76 on: October 24, 2010, 06:26:46 pm »
Artist's impression of an AVPRO notional fifth-generation forward-swept wing (FSW) interceptor.






Artist's impression of an AVPRO notional fifth-generation forward-swept wing (FSW) future fighter. I believe that this concept is also known as the AVPRO Rapier.



« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 09:25:06 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #77 on: October 24, 2010, 06:51:32 pm »
Artist's impression of an AVPRO notional concept of an aircraft to replace the Boeing/BAE Systems Harrier II as part of the Future Carrier-Borne Aircraft (FCBA).



« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 09:42:18 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #78 on: October 24, 2010, 07:29:30 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO Marauder.

Source:
http://www.whatifmodelers.com/index.php?topic=12094.0

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #79 on: October 24, 2010, 07:59:10 pm »
Via Internet Archive:

Quote
Avpro is a conceptual design and research company committed to design excellence, and the advancement of aerospace and defence technology.

The company works closely with the UK aerospace and defence industry, and has an excellent working relationship with the UK Defence Evaluations and Research Agency (DERA). These links enable Avpro to offer a custom design service for air, sea and land platforms to customer's requirements and specifications.

The company's conceptual design portfolio ranges from the EXINT Pod rescue system, conceived for the recovery of downed aircrew using the Harrier vertical take off and landing aircraft and Apache helicopter, to the radical stealth trimaran aircraft carrier (STAC) designed to outperform all current aircraft carriers in such parameters as speed, stability, safety and survivability.

Avpro is justifiably proud of its association with the UK armed forces and can offer other governments impartial and professional advice in respect of equipment and military capabilities. The company can also provide direct support to military commanders in developing concepts of operation and tactics for existing and planned forces.

In today's uncertain world Avpro is committed to providing highly innovative concepts which keep defence capabilities ahead of any adversary.

Source:
http://web.archive.org/web/20010214031609/www.avpro.co.uk/Profile.html

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #80 on: October 24, 2010, 09:34:49 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO Marauder in Airborne Early Warning (AEW) configuration. Cruising in ground effect mode is intended to minimize fuel burn. The craft is capable of landing on the water to refuel.



The AVPRO Marauder is modular so that the craft can be reconfigured. For example, an anti-submarine warfare (ASW) version equipped with a sea-going hull can be converted to a strike aircraft by replacing the hull with bomb bay.

Other potential roles of the AVPRO Marauder are:

  • Search and Rescue (SAR)
  • Fire-fighting/Oil pollution at sea clean-up
  • Special forces landing craft
  • Ground attack/close air support
  • AWACS/Stand-off target acquisition
  • Interceptor

Source:
Oliver, David and Ryan, Mike. Warplanes of the Future London: Salamander Books. 2003. pp. 80-81
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 09:47:37 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #81 on: October 24, 2010, 09:41:33 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO Marauder landing special forces.

Quote
Marauder would make a highly effective landing craft. In addition to two crew, the Marauder is intended to carry 12 fully-equipped troops in a bay inside the hull. The ability of the craft to approach a beach at low level and high speed would reduce the probability of detection and the exposure of crew/troops. In addition, because of ground effect, a high speed approach to the drop zone would be terminated by dropping the throttles and allowing the craft to glide/ride hence reducing the acoustic signature and making detection by the enemy less risky.




Source:
Oliver, David and Ryan, Mike. Warplanes of the Future London: Salamander Books. 2003. pp.83-84.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 09:47:17 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #82 on: October 24, 2010, 09:57:37 pm »
Artist's impression of a Royal Navy Manta approaching a beachhead at low speed, being escorted by a Royal Marine Commando WAH-64D Apache helicopter, and Fleet Air Arm Marauder combined-attack capability WIGs.

Source:
http://www.zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/fotos-y-videos-de-fuerzas-aereas/11579-fotos-ineditas-y-dificiles-fotos-118.html
« Last Edit: October 24, 2010, 10:01:59 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #83 on: October 25, 2010, 12:44:59 am »
Artist's impression of AVPRO supersonic jet trainer aircraft concept.






« Last Edit: October 25, 2010, 10:56:03 pm by Triton »

Offline royabulgaf

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 385
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2010, 02:28:49 pm »
OK-1.  The perspective on that WIG landing craft is screwed up.  The truck is way too small compared to the cockpit.
2.  The AEW cruising in ground effect would of course save fuel, but what is it to warn against?  Geese?  Doesn't flying in ground effect defeat the purpose of AEW?

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2010, 09:51:26 pm »
They probably had just in mind to reach the loiter area as WIG craft and then
climbing up to operational altitude. And perhaps it should just show, that the
Marauder was to be a Jack-Of-All-Trades, even suitable as AEW platform.  ;)
BTW, in Warplanes of the Future" two different AEW version were featured, one
as "AEW only", the other with command and control capability.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #86 on: October 25, 2010, 10:10:17 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO Manta. The Royal Navy variant of the Manta is clearly different than the US Navy/Marines variant.

Source:
http://www.zonamilitar.com.ar/foros/fotos-y-videos-de-fuerzas-aereas/11579-fotos-ineditas-y-dificiles-fotos-118.html
« Last Edit: November 02, 2010, 12:44:53 pm by Triton »

Offline mithril

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #87 on: November 05, 2010, 07:17:05 am »
Artist's impression of AVPRO supersonic jet trainer aircraft concept.
one of the few concepts that appears (IMO) to be actually a viable aircraft. presumably the idea was a LO, thrust vectoring, trainer to help pilots adapt to the unique operational issues of planes like the F-22 or F-35?
i'd imagine that, had something like this actually been built, it could also have been sold to friendly nations much like the F-5 was? it certainly has the "low cost export fighter" vibe to it like the F-5 does..

Offline Abraham Gubler

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 3559
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #88 on: November 09, 2010, 06:20:02 am »
Artist's impression of AVPRO Stealth Trimaran Aircraft Carrier (STAC) concept.

The 40,000 tonne (44,092 US tons) STAC could operate an air wing of up to 55 aircraft using both ski-jump for STOVL aircraft and a 450 ft (140 m) long diagonal flight deck for launching CTOL aircraft.

Just thought I should add for the record that this STAC flight deck is total nonsense. Great art school work but drawn by someone with no real carrier experience. It would be impossible to land on the high angle flight deck. The approach pattern required would need an incredibly tight turn with no opportunity for adjustment. Also the landing aircraft would hit the island's turbulence burble just as it is about to touch down. Other features are equally fanciful but of little consequence since no one could actually land on this thing.
"There is a tendency in our planning to confuse the unfamiliar with the improbable." Thomas Schelling

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #89 on: November 09, 2010, 03:19:11 pm »
Just thought I should add for the record that this STAC flight deck is total nonsense. Great art school work but drawn by someone with no real carrier experience. It would be impossible to land on the high angle flight deck. The approach pattern required would need an incredibly tight turn with no opportunity for adjustment. Also the landing aircraft would hit the island's turbulence burble just as it is about to touch down. Other features are equally fanciful but of little consequence since no one could actually land on this thing.

That is very disappointing considering AvPro was trying to sell design services for real air, land, and sea weapons platforms and they made a great deal of their close relationship with DERA and their years of aviation experience.

Offline dannydale

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 212
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #90 on: November 10, 2010, 05:15:15 pm »
Artist's impression of AVPRO supersonic jet trainer aircraft concept.
one of the few concepts that appears (IMO) to be actually a viable aircraft. presumably the idea was a LO, thrust vectoring, trainer to help pilots adapt to the unique operational issues of planes like the F-22 or F-35?
i'd imagine that, had something like this actually been built, it could also have been sold to friendly nations much like the F-5 was? it certainly has the "low cost export fighter" vibe to it like the F-5 does..
I was just about to ask why a training aircraft has features of current-generation combat aircraft, too. My theory was the one where they design something obviously more than a trainer and call it that to sneak it past the doves in government.

Nice design too, it looks like an F23 and a Su-35 had a baby. ;D

Offline royabulgaf

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 385
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #91 on: November 10, 2010, 06:32:40 pm »
Perhaps a bit OT, but what exactly was their business model?  What things were they going to produce to sell?

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #92 on: November 10, 2010, 09:37:57 pm »
"What things were they going to produce to sell?"
I'm tempted to say : Acrylic colours on canvas. As mentioned before,
the only hardware ever shown (although just as a mock-up, too) by this
company was the Protheus modular cruise missile and probably the only
thing within their engineering capabilities was the EXINT pod. But I think,
Avpro never actually was company for designing aircraft and ships, but for
working out, what types and concepts could be operational in the future.
So their "designs" perhaps should be regarded with some indulgence.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline mithril

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 113
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #93 on: November 11, 2010, 07:13:36 am »
Artist's impression of AVPRO supersonic jet trainer aircraft concept.
one of the few concepts that appears (IMO) to be actually a viable aircraft. presumably the idea was a LO, thrust vectoring, trainer to help pilots adapt to the unique operational issues of planes like the F-22 or F-35?
i'd imagine that, had something like this actually been built, it could also have been sold to friendly nations much like the F-5 was? it certainly has the "low cost export fighter" vibe to it like the F-5 does..
I was just about to ask why a training aircraft has features of current-generation combat aircraft, too. My theory was the one where they design something obviously more than a trainer and call it that to sneak it past the doves in government.

Nice design too, it looks like an F23 and a Su-35 had a baby. ;D
actually, i get more of a MiG-29 vibe from the color artwork. definately the F-23 though. combined with the BAE Hawk trainer.. with that single 2D thrust vector nozzle, i bet it would have had amazing pitch rates...kinda pointless to have only one though.. the underside bay looks to be big enough for sidewinders, but i'm not sure you could have fit AMRAAMs or their equivilents in it..

Offline OM

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 753
    • OMBlog
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #94 on: February 01, 2011, 11:10:31 pm »
"What things were they going to produce to sell?"
I'm tempted to say : Acrylic colours on canvas.

...And you'd have been correct. IIRC, they didn't have *any* facilities outside of a few offices and some drafting tables. Even if someone had gone for their biggest concepts, they'd have had to outsource everything, including quite a few VPs.

Offline royabulgaf

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 385
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #95 on: February 02, 2011, 07:29:08 pm »
Sounds sort of like Martin-Bakers business model until decided to specialize in ejection seats.  The problem is anything Martin Baker or Avpro could do, a real aerospace company could do in-house. 

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #96 on: February 02, 2011, 09:39:03 pm »
But Martin-Baker actually designed and built a/c, although it's doubtful, if the
company could have handled a series production of larger numbers. AvPro was
just a kind of think tank, similar maybe to Bauhaus Luftfahrt e.V.
But they answered the phone really kindly and were quite helpful, although not
willing to give away for free any information, that perhaps could be found on one
of their CD.   ;D
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline kcran567

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 644
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2011, 06:29:57 pm »
"I wonder if they are attempting to illustrate that the EXINT pod is a comfortable way to fly?"

I think, we shouldn't discuss that point too much, otherwise maybe someone could
have an idea ...  ;D

I think the company went out of business because all the $ was going to the illustrator. This guy was prolific. Almost like he lived in a world of perpetual war and unlimited funds.  ;D

Would you want to "fly" slung under the wing of airliner in one of those "coffins" for 4 hours? Thank God this company went bankrupt and the idea didn't catch on. Could you imagine being trapped in one of those for a long flight? What if you had to go? Would the airlines throw a few bags of peanuts in the tube for a snack?

Offline XP67_Moonbat

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2151
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2011, 08:50:34 am »
Hey the way airline travel goes to s**t just a little more each year, I wouldn't be surprised if it came down to this. At one point in the past, who would've thought we'd have to pay for little things like a pillow? Those suits in the boardrooms will think of anything to save money. I wouldn't put a single thing past them.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 08:53:27 am by XP67_Moonbat »
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #99 on: March 03, 2011, 09:44:35 pm »
"Would you want to "fly" slung under the wing of airliner in one of those "coffins" for 4 hours?"

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6463.15.html, #26

 ;D
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #100 on: March 04, 2011, 01:56:51 am »
"Would you want to "fly" slung under the wing of airliner in one of those "coffins" for 4 hours?"

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6463.15.html, #26

 ;D

With the proper heating, great music, comfy bed (and maybe a pill or two to relieve anxiety) I guess that could work! ROTFL

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #101 on: March 04, 2011, 11:13:39 am »
It could lead to great reductions in fuel consumption, I think, as especially take-off and
landing need a lot of fuel. It's just a matter of a clever routing ...   ;D

"We ask our 3rd class passengers to prepare for arrival. We'll reach the drop zone in
about 5 minute, your descent will take about 2 minutes. If you'll miss the landing zone,
please contact the nearest customs officer as soon as possible."
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline northerndancer2000

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 46
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #102 on: July 05, 2011, 06:52:42 pm »




The key question is: How much do you trust the pilot?  If he (or she) runs into trouble, will he punch off all of the stores (drop tanks, bombs, you in your little Exfil tube) to make it easier to do a runner? I didn't see a reserve parachute on the back of the pod or on the passengers. 


Coincidentally my replacement copy of Warplanes of the Future arrived today.  It was a fun (and as I recall expensive) read back in the day. 


Anyone know where I could find one of the CDs? 


Thanks.


 

Offline stealth-uk

  • CLEARANCE: Restricted
  • Posts: 13
  • Interest in uk aerospace projects 80s onwards
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #103 on: October 29, 2011, 02:57:40 am »
I know what the Royal Navy was expected to look like with all its trimarine ships and carriers, but besides some of the artwork in Flightglobals and some images BAe and AVPRO produced is there any more better images of the RAF  might have looked like from the 90s or is that the limit. If I have put this in the wrong subject I am sorry.

Offline red admiral

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 536
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #104 on: October 29, 2011, 09:17:48 am »
Off the top of my head there's really only three things that come to mind. FOAS (Future Offensive Air System) is the main one for a GR4 replacement. Many different designs studied and various bits of art around this site for both manned and unmanned concepts. It sort of got bundled into JCA a bit and other capabilities pushed back. JCA is the other one, which could have been any of the JSF concepts (LM/Boeing/MDD). The only other one that comes to mind is A400M, which looked pretty similar to the actual end product. I can't remember seeing anything different for FSTA.

Offline uk 75

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1215
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #105 on: November 18, 2011, 04:57:18 am »
AVPRO produced a book with all sorts of what-if stuff in. I cannot remember the title but it was
very comprehensive

Offline martinbayer

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 378
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #106 on: November 18, 2011, 07:21:05 am »
The book is "Warplanes of the Future" by David Oliver and Mike Ryan.

Martin
Would be marching to the beat of his own drum, if he didn't detest marching to any drumbeat at all so much.

Offline shedofdread

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 391
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #107 on: November 18, 2011, 07:30:33 am »
Without wishing to stray too far from topic, does "Warplanes of the Future" contain 3-views? I ask because I'm rather interested in 3-views of the manned FOAS concept (blended wing - body, twin tails).
 
TIA,
 



Offline XP67_Moonbat

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2151
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #108 on: November 18, 2011, 08:07:02 am »
It does actually. Just read it again a couple of nights ago. The book's a good read if you can get a copy. Out of curiousity, would this happen to be the design you're looking for? I don't have a scanner so I ran a quick Google search.

http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints-depot-restricted/modernplanes/modern-f/foas_raf-24775.jpg

Try this link also. It has a some images from the old "X-Planes" special that came out back in the day (another good read if you can find a copy), plus some other FOAS images.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/211833/thread/1105369477/1105461828/What+is+the+current+status+of+FOAS-+Please+judge+%28warning%2C+big+pictures%29
« Last Edit: November 18, 2011, 08:19:45 am by XP67_Moonbat »
In God we trust, all others we monitor. :-p

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #109 on: November 20, 2011, 09:40:27 pm »
There were three FOAS concepts in  "Warplanes of the Future", we had them here
 
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6463.30.html , #41
 
and here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1492.msg12633.html#msg12633  #3,
 
but be aware, that the FOAS-2 was just shown as an artists impression, so the 3-view is just
self-made, without any guarantee of being correct.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 09:42:40 pm by Jemiba »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

AAAdrone

  • Guest
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #110 on: November 24, 2011, 07:40:08 pm »
Quite interesting.  I'll have to do some research on these FOAS concepts in the future.  I know now what I want for christmas!

Online hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22001
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #111 on: September 26, 2012, 09:31:10 am »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #112 on: December 06, 2013, 01:34:53 pm »

Offline Jemiba

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 7871
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #113 on: December 07, 2013, 07:54:19 am »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Pete West

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Restricted
  • **
  • Posts: 1
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #114 on: September 24, 2014, 01:14:14 am »
Hi there, this is quite amazing, I was just having a casual conversation with my accountant in Auckland NZ. He sent me a
video of a drone taking off from a carrier. I said I did artwork for this way back in 1999....for Avpro. I didn't give him the name of the company I worked for, but he did give me a link which leads to you. After 47 attempts to register I got in.......so......I worked with Mike Ryan on these CDsand did a lot of the artwork, mostly diagrams and colour 3 views. I still have all the artwork, I may even have a CD somewhere, if not I may...and I do stress MAY be able to remake the CDs. This could require redesigning the artwork as some of the programmes I used to make the booklet no longer exist. I do have enough to put a CD of some sort together including all of the artwork shown here....who's interested? cheers Pete West
PS I live in New Zealand now, but regularly do artwork for the UK...see Flypast

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10785
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #115 on: September 24, 2014, 01:22:45 pm »
Hi there, this is quite amazing, I was just having a casual conversation with my accountant in Auckland NZ. He sent me a
video of a drone taking off from a carrier. I said I did artwork for this way back in 1999....for Avpro. I didn't give him the name of the company I worked for, but he did give me a link which leads to you. After 47 attempts to register I got in.......so......I worked with Mike Ryan on these CDs and did a lot of the artwork, mostly diagrams and colour 3 views. I still have all the artwork, I may even have a CD somewhere, if not I may...and I do stress MAY be able to remake the CDs. This could require redesigning the artwork as some of the programmes I used to make the booklet no longer exist. I do have enough to put a CD of some sort together including all of the artwork shown here....who's interested? cheers Pete West
PS I live in New Zealand now, but regularly do artwork for the UK...see Flypast

Hi Pete - very cool - I have of course seen your artwork in print for many years.

I am in NZ too these days, a few of us Poms around :)
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline sferrin

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 10923
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #116 on: September 24, 2014, 01:37:45 pm »
Hi there, this is quite amazing, I was just having a casual conversation with my accountant in Auckland NZ. He sent me a
video of a drone taking off from a carrier. I said I did artwork for this way back in 1999....for Avpro. I didn't give him the name of the company I worked for, but he did give me a link which leads to you. After 47 attempts to register I got in.......so......I worked with Mike Ryan on these CDsand did a lot of the artwork, mostly diagrams and colour 3 views. I still have all the artwork, I may even have a CD somewhere, if not I may...and I do stress MAY be able to remake the CDs. This could require redesigning the artwork as some of the programmes I used to make the booklet no longer exist. I do have enough to put a CD of some sort together including all of the artwork shown here....who's interested? cheers Pete West
PS I live in New Zealand now, but regularly do artwork for the UK...see Flypast

Count me in!
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 13244
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #117 on: September 24, 2014, 02:04:12 pm »
Welcome Pete! It sure would be nice to see this artwork... If you could make the CD and send it to PaulMM, that would be really great. Thanks for the offer!

Offline yasotay

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1843
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #118 on: September 27, 2014, 08:58:28 am »
Welcome Pete! It sure would be nice to see this artwork... If you could make the CD and send it to PaulMM, that would be really great. Thanks for the offer!

I'll second that motion!

Offline Vladimir

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 322
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #119 on: October 25, 2015, 03:30:16 am »
Hi,

Offline Grey Havoc

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 7952
  • The path not taken.
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #120 on: August 23, 2018, 02:46:53 am »
Funny how Tempest's planform reminds me of an old AVPRO concept. Give or take a few small differences.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1492.0.html

Well AVPRO was in effect a BAe (later BAE Systems) subsidiary specialising in the creation of advanced concepts, IIRC.
The sole imperative of a government, once instituted, is to survive.

Offline Foo Fighter

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 539
  • I came, I saw, I drank some tea (and had a bun).
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #121 on: August 23, 2018, 03:11:53 am »
Interesting carrier concept but completely impractical with that layout.  Interesting to see just what they were thinking, smoking.  The carpet perhaps.

Offline litzj

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 166
  • BLOG : http://jaesan-aero.blogspot.com/
    • http://jaesan-aero.blogspot.com/
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #122 on: August 23, 2018, 05:30:01 am »
Funny how Tempest's planform reminds me of an old AVPRO concept. Give or take a few small differences.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1492.0.html

it is more similar to concept of Northrop-Grumman's.

Offline TomS

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2818
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #123 on: August 23, 2018, 06:47:47 am »
Funny how Tempest's planform reminds me of an old AVPRO concept. Give or take a few small differences.

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1492.0.html

Well AVPRO was in effect a BAe (later BAE Systems) subsidiary specialising in the creation of advanced concepts, IIRC.

Really?  I never got that impression at all.  They were a fantasy art shop that had one semi-plausible idea (the EXINT Pod) that made it to mockup.  Their relationship to BAe seems to have been very one-sided -- Mike Ryan claiming there was a relationship and BAe saying nothing at all.

AvPro was definitely not a subsidiary of BAe to any real degree.  While they still had a web presence, they had some very dodgy-looking scheme to sell stock in the company direct to investors.  If they'd had a financial relationship with BAe, that would not have been on.

Offline mrmalaya

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 322
  • Consider it done.
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #124 on: August 23, 2018, 07:31:01 am »
That said, I don't think they were treated as anything more than a concept/art generating machine by the industry at the time. I don't think it is a Stavatti type situation. Whilst the detail of their designs are sometimes questionable in hindsight they did have a role to play in the 90s.

If only to bring some energy to the process.

Offline flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8551
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #125 on: August 23, 2018, 07:35:35 am »
doesn't look like BAe subsidary at all
https://web.archive.org/web/20000529070008/http://www.avpro.co.uk:80/frameset.htm
but Ryan and Oliver input in aerospace popularization is certain 
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 07:39:02 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline TsrJoe

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 273
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #126 on: August 23, 2018, 03:01:04 pm »
Count me in too, thirded :)
...'excuse me mister, is that plane for real'...!!!

IPMS (UK) 'Project Cancelled' SIG. co,co-ordinator
IPMS (UK) 'TSR-2', 'Cold War' & 'What-if' SIG. Member

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9687
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #127 on: August 23, 2018, 08:13:06 pm »
The book Warplanes of the Future written by Ryan and Oliver, published by Motorbooks International (August 1, 2000), that features many of the artist's impressions of AvPro concepts.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2018, 08:28:32 pm by Triton »

Offline flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8551
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #128 on: August 24, 2018, 01:34:08 am »
The book Warplanes of the Future written by Ryan and Oliver, published by Motorbooks International (August 1, 2000), that features many of the artist's impressions of AvPro concepts.
Was even translated to Russian.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 8551
Re: AvPro Projects
« Reply #129 on: November 10, 2018, 06:54:25 am »
..
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works