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Author Topic: JFK's use of US Marshals against rogue CIA-backed Cuban Exiles on 3 Dec 1962?  (Read 492 times)

Offline Pioneer

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G’day all

Recently I was having a discussion about America’s operations/plans against Cuba, with someone of that time/era. I was intrigued with his recollection about President Kennedy employment of US Marshals against rogue CIA-backed Cuban Paramilitary Exiles at their base (a hanger)(their CIA commander was a Frank Sturgis) at No Name Key Miami, and at a Everglades base (their CIA commanded was a E Howard Hunt) on Dec 3rd 1962.

Apparently Kennedy's justification for the action was under the ‘Neutrality Act', when these rogue CIA-backed Cuban Exiles were conducted unauthorised attacks against Cuba, including the sinking of a Russian flagged ship in Havana Harbour. Kennedy used US Marshals because he didn’t/couldn’t trust the US Military to follow his orders. During the operation, the US Marshals used five helicopter gunships to attack and destroy the paramilitary hanger in No Name Key.
I’ve never heard of such operation and I’m very intrigued, and would appreciate further clarification and information if anyone has any.

Regards
Pioneer
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 11:32:30 am by Pioneer »
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Online Dynoman

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Here's some information regarding the issue, via Wikipedia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerry_Patrick_Hemming

FBI Files on Hemming and his involvement in training Cuban exiles for subversive activities against Cuba (part of JFK Files):
https://www.maryferrell.org/php/showlist.php?docset=1459&sort=date&page=1

A documentary exist of the incident (this is the trailer for the film).

« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 11:59:12 am by Dynoman »

Offline Kadija_Man

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I did a history course at university on the Cuban Revolution.  Utterly fascinating and talking about it may stray into politics and I am sure I will upset some people with my comments.   The US does not have clean hands for Cuba or most of "south of the border".    During the 1950s to the 1980s, the US Government actively attempted (or succeeded) in promoting dictatorships down there. The (in)famous "School of the Americas" was considered the training ground for would-be dictators - it's graduates were often in the vanguard of coups, counter-coups and revolutions.   In the case of Cuba, a (nearly) completely false view of it as a harsh, totalitarian dictatorship grew after Castro came to power in 1960.   

Online Dynoman

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In the case of the raid by federal agents on the No Name Key 'mercenaries,the group was not financed by the CIA or any other agency of the US government. The group, Interpen, was a small group of former US servicemen who sought to capitalize from 25-100 Cuban exiles that were willing to pay for military training to return to Cuba and defeat Castro. The leader of the group was Gerry Patrick Hemming who claims to have been aided by the CIA and who has been linked to numerous conspiracy theories regarding the JFK assassination. Speculation exists as to the CIA's interest in the Interpen group, and others like them, who would be willing to take action on behalf of US interests abroad with little or no ties to the US government. As far as the size of the raid and the equipment used, IDK. There are some newspaper accounts of the raid in December 1962 that are available online. The CIA Reading Room also has a few items on Hemming and the Interpen group.

Offline Pioneer

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Thank's Dynoman some good information and names to follow up I guess.
I'm not into conspiracy theories and the likes, it's just that this revelation about Marshel's being used against a Paramilitary group and the notion that JFK didn't trust the military is a littlee disconcerting.......

The course you did Kadija_Man sounds interesting!
You know, I can't get my head around the likes of the psyche of embedded organisation like School of the Americas, Foreign Intelligence Digest, John Birch Society and other such political/ideologically driven organisation, which undermine and divide a society and government 😳; but then again Ive never claimed to get, let alone understand the likes of the Dulles Brothers and Joseph McCarthy...........

It's sort of ironic, that Ive come to opinion that the United States needs an perpetual enemy, while Russia needs a dictator.....and the two nations lived happily ever after hating one another 😉😞


Regards
Pioneer
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 03:08:01 am by Pioneer »
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Offline Anderman

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Kennedy used US Marshals because he didn’t/couldn’t trust the US Military to follow his orders.
Regards
Pioneer

The whole thing was a police operation or ? So it would really unusual to use the military instead of the US Marshall Service or the FBI. And wouldn´t the use of the military be a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act ?

Offline Pioneer

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Thank's for your input Anderman
Good and valid point, but I still don't know enough about the topic (and hence my intrigue).
Again, I can only assume that JFK's concern and experience with how far the CIA was able and willing to go in supporting one of their own classroom paramilitary backed organisations, the perceived skills and firepower of this paramilitary group, etc.....

Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Online SpudmanWP

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Kennedy used US Marshals because he didn’t/couldn’t trust the US Military to follow his orders.
Regards
Pioneer

The whole thing was a police operation or ? So it would really unusual to use the military instead of the US Marshall Service or the FBI. And wouldn´t the use of the military be a violation of the Posse Comitatus Act ?
The Posse Comitatus Act prevented him from using the military on US soil for law enforcement purposes.  Since there was no "insurrection", there was no authority to use military force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Posse_Comitatus_Act
WE4-45-1-08     OMHIWDMB
"The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese."

Online Dynoman

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The CIA did not fund the Interpen group, according to a witness in the case, as per a newspaper article available at the CIA reading room. However, in the last statement of the article the attorney for claimant said that they would provide proof that the CIA funded the group. The next article follows the conclusion of the trial, in which the defendants were released with their weapons citing that they were exporting the weapons to fight the Cubans and that the Attorney General worked to keep the CIA's involvement, if there was any, out of the record:
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 01:45:03 pm by Dynoman »

Offline Kadija_Man

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Thank's Dynoman some good information and names to follow up I guess.
I'm not into conspiracy theories and the likes, it's just that this revelation about Marshel's being used against a Paramilitary group and the notion that JFK didn't trust the military is a littlee disconcerting.......

As mentioned by others, it wasn't so much that he didn't trust them, legally he wasn't allowed to use them because of the posse commitas act, which prevents the US Government from doing that.

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The course you did Kadija_Man sounds interesting!

Unfortunately it is no longer offered.  The lecturer is long retired.  It was interesting 'cause it looked at Cuba from the outside and the inside.   He had lived in Central America and Cuba for over 15 years, so knew his stuff and it was balanced and well put together.

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You know, I can't get my head around the likes of the psyche of embedded organisation like School of the Americas, Foreign Intelligence Digest, John Birch Society and other such political/ideologically driven organisation, which undermine and divide a society and government 😳; but then again Ive never claimed to get, let alone understand the likes of the Dulles Brothers and Joseph McCarthy...........

A massive driver was and remains personal profit in US foreign policy.  It is easily overlooked unless one looks at the backgrounds of the various personalities involved.   The Dulles brothers were large stock holders in United Fruit - a major exploiter "south of the border".  It was why the US intervened in Guatemala in 1954 and attempted to intervene in Cuba in 1960.  "Tail Gunner Joe" was simply a lunatic who was paranoid.

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It's sort of ironic, that Ive come to opinion that the United States needs an perpetual enemy, while Russia needs a dictator.....and the two nations lived happily ever after hating one another 😉😞

A not bad assessment of post 1945 US and Russian empire building.   It suffers because before 1945, neither nation really had any experience of either.   Today, America has become used to using external factors to bolster it's internal political debate.  After the end of the Cold War, the US found itself "lost" without an enemy and identified first the Japanese and then the Chinese and finally the Muslim Islamists as potential new bogeymen.


Offline Avimimus

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There was a lot of CIA money floating around just then. I wouldn't be surprised if some of it ended up just about anywhere. There's also a lot of isolation between different operations within the CIA and laundering to ensure deniability... it is often hard to be definitive except in areas where comprehensive documentation has surfaced.

Online Dynoman

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Interpen was one of many (over 100) anti-Castro organizations active in early 1960-1963, of which Alpha 66, Cuban Revolutionary Junta (JURE), Commandos L, the Directorio Revolutionario Estrudiantial (DRE), the Cuban Revolutionary Council (CRC), Revolutionary Recovery Movement (MRR), and Ejercito Invasor Cubano (EIC) were considered "action groups" actively pursuing either military and/or propaganda activities against the Castro regime. These groups carried out infiltrations and raids into Cuba, attempted assassination plots against Castro, and engaged in arms dealing to overthrow the Castro government.

Kennedy tried to crack down on these groups following the Cuban Missile Crisis in October of 1962 (which includes the Interpen raid in December of 1962). Following the 'Cuba Project' (Operation Mongoose) to eliminate Castro, Kennedy began to consider an attempt at repairing relations with Castro and to try and influence him through peaceful means (National Security Archives: Cuba Policy April 11, 1963). The elimination of these active anti-Castro groups, which could undermine his newly considered policy ideas, was one of the foci of the Warren Commission investigations in to a possible motive of Oswald (Oswald attempted to join the DRE anti-Castro group, ironically while he was petitioning for Fair Play for Cuba. Oswald is an enigma)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2019, 06:20:04 pm by Dynoman »