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Author Topic: The future of aircraft mounted guns  (Read 3532 times)

Offline jsport

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The future of aircraft mounted guns
« on: December 29, 2018, 05:03:11 am »
Think-pieces w/ some thought for scale. Open barrel recoilless tech allows large gun to fit w/o large drag as proposed back in the day.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2018, 07:12:02 am by jsport »

Offline DrRansom

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2018, 06:39:53 am »
Why is there a model of the PCA with a large gun? Just curious.

Offline MihoshiK

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2018, 02:13:50 pm »
Why is there a model of the PCA with a large gun? Just curious.
There aren't. The upper piece, for example, has those holes crudely photoshopped in. This is just jsport engaging in pie-in-the-sky thinking. Nobody is seriously thinking of putting howitsers on fighter planes.

Offline jsport

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2018, 08:43:53 pm »
A reminder.

Offline MihoshiK

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2018, 09:31:10 pm »
A Study initiated by a single man (and not part of any official chain of command USAF request) is not "serious". The US military regularly plans for weird things, but nobody thinks they'll ever actually use the plans for when the Girl Scouts of America will try to over throw the government in a bloody coup. It's just mental excercises.

Offline jsport

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2018, 08:26:18 am »
A Study initiated by a single man (and not part of any official chain of command USAF request) is not "serious". The US military regularly plans for weird things, but nobody thinks they'll ever actually use the plans for when the Girl Scouts of America will try to over throw the government in a bloody coup. It's just mental excercises.
A gun was built and tested. guns simply deliver more payload per sortie than missiles ever will. period. . His highness. And your tone is uncivilized. You clearly haven't done your homework even on this thread there is discussion Pg 174-5 let alone reflected on your vast DoD/aircraft industry experience.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 08:43:06 am by jsport »

Offline sferrin

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2018, 08:55:10 am »

A gun was built and tested. guns simply deliver more payload per sortie than missiles ever will. period.

Is this supposed to be a joke?
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline jsport

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #7 on: December 30, 2018, 09:36:04 am »

A gun was built and tested. guns simply deliver more payload per sortie than missiles ever will. period.

Is this supposed to be a joke?

Have you read any of the PDF around p 175 or are we off the cuffing..

Offline sferrin

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #8 on: December 30, 2018, 10:37:42 am »

A gun was built and tested. guns simply deliver more payload per sortie than missiles ever will. period.

Is this supposed to be a joke?

Have you read any of the PDF around p 175 or are we off the cuffing..

I didn't see any PDFs that demonstrated a gun is going to deliver 4000lbs of BOOM in one sortie.  Perhaps you could direct me to the relevant document?
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline jsport

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #9 on: December 30, 2018, 11:08:41 am »

A gun was built and tested. guns simply deliver more payload per sortie than missiles ever will. period.

Is this supposed to be a joke?

Have you read any of the PDF around p 175 or are we off the cuffing..

I didn't see any PDFs that demonstrated a gun is going to deliver 4000lbs of BOOM in one sortie.  Perhaps you could direct me to the relevant document?
From cannonfighter PDF
Logistically a equivalent shell is always lighter than a missile. A heavy weight Paul Cyzsz would not have pursued this nor money be spent to build it if it didnt have some prospective serious advantage. For the equivalent size of the craft the more payload  is always w/ a gun. The bigger the craft the more efficient large weights delivered at stand-off range

Offline kaiserd

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #10 on: December 30, 2018, 12:55:57 pm »

A gun was built and tested. guns simply deliver more payload per sortie than missiles ever will. period.

Is this supposed to be a joke?

Have you read any of the PDF around p 175 or are we off the cuffing..

I didn't see any PDFs that demonstrated a gun is going to deliver 4000lbs of BOOM in one sortie.  Perhaps you could direct me to the relevant document?
From cannonfighter PDF
Logistically a equivalent shell is always lighter than a missile. A heavy weight Paul Cyzsz would not have pursued this nor money be spent to build it if it didnt have some prospective serious advantage. For the equivalent size of the craft the more payload  is always w/ a gun. The bigger the craft the more efficient large weights delivered at stand-off range

I had read the start of these comments and also assumed a joke or perhaps a significant translation/ cross-language terminology breakdown.

This is weird wacky stuff even in comparison with the more eccentric contributions you’d see on this site.

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2018, 01:26:23 pm »
up there with combatreform.org
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

Offline MihoshiK

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2018, 04:02:20 pm »
A Study initiated by a single man (and not part of any official chain of command USAF request) is not "serious". The US military regularly plans for weird things, but nobody thinks they'll ever actually use the plans for when the Girl Scouts of America will try to over throw the government in a bloody coup. It's just mental excercises.
A gun was built and tested. guns simply deliver more payload per sortie than missiles ever will. period. . His highness. And your tone is uncivilized. You clearly haven't done your homework even on this thread there is discussion Pg 174-5 let alone reflected on your vast DoD/aircraft industry experience.
My tone is disrespectful because to be frank, sillyness like this doesn't deserve respect. On page 174 you quote the Rand study as if it proves your point about a cannon armed fighter, but it really really doesn't. The two are entirely unrelated. And I'd like to see the high velocity aircraft cannon that can engage enemy planes from dozens of kilometers away (there isn't one), like a missile armed fighter can.

Furthermore I'd like to see some evidence apart from ONE study that anybody is seriously thinking about a cannon armed aircraft. Such a thing would be a paradigm shift, and people would be putting a lot of money into it if anyone seriously thought it would be worth to follow up on.

Go on. Provide sources. You'll forgive me if I won't hold my breath.

Offline jsport

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2018, 04:03:54 pm »
up there with combatreform.org
Pretty sure I have more confidence in the opinion of late Paul C who oversaw the built gun program than any opinion here.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20180.0

Offline MihoshiK

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Re: The future of aircraft mounted guns
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2018, 04:08:59 pm »
up there with combatreform.org
Pretty sure I have more confidence in the opinion of late Paul C who oversaw the built gun program than any opinion here.
https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=20180.0
I have a lot of respect for the man. That's not to say that he was infallible. Just because he proposed something doesn't means that it was an immutable truth, and in fact, going from the complete and utter lack of follow-up on that concept, nobody else of note thought much of it.
« Last Edit: December 30, 2018, 04:14:27 pm by MihoshiK »