Who was the first to make a quiet engine for small military boats ?

hesham

ACCESS: USAP
Senior Member
Joined
26 May 2006
Messages
32,490
Reaction score
11,578
Hi,

can anyone help me in this subject,who was the first in countries,and when ?.
 
Electric motors have been used to propel small craft since the 1830's. Electric motors were known for their quietness and are commonly used as trolling motors in order not to scare the fish. Military applications of electric propulsion systems were used in early submarine designs while running underwater as early as the 1890's. The British Special Operations Executive developed a Motorized Submersible Canoe that was also electrically powered in order to deliver frogmen and explosives during WWII.

Experiments with magneto-hydrodynamic propulsion, aka the propulsion system in the Hunt for Red October, was first experimented with in the US in 1966. later the Japanese were moderately successful in producing a MHD boat in 1991 (the Yamato 1).
 
Thank you my dear Dynoman,

but in USA,this research was secretly,and it's done by Egyptian Navy,during 1968/69,
the orders came to our Navy to destroy the Eilat military plattform and two of its large
ships,we wanted to make it from long distance,about 15 km,equal 30 km go and come,
so it was too hard for frogmen to swim all this rang,we thought if could use a small boat
to reduce the way,but it was very noisy and any Israel patrol can blow it up in one second,
so a genius man revised engine to be a very quiet,so you can stand off beside it and hear
nothing almost,and we did it and we succeeded.
 
hesham said:
Thank you my dear Dynoman,

but in USA,this research was secretly,and it's done by Egyptian Navy,during 1968/69,
the orders came to our Navy to destroy the Eilat military plattform and two of its large
ships,we wanted to make it from long distance,about 15 km,equal 30 km go and come,
so it was too hard for frogmen to swim all this rang,we thought if could use a small boat
to reduce the way,but it was very noisy and any Israel patrol can blow it up in one second,
so a genius man revised engine to be a very quiet,so you can stand off beside it and hear
nothing almost,and we did it and we succeeded.

Italy used battery powered electric motors for some Torpedo boats and sub chasers during WW1 to allow them to move silently for short periods.
 
Brickmuppet said:
hesham said:
Thank you my dear Dynoman,

but in USA,this research was secretly,and it's done by Egyptian Navy,during 1968/69,
the orders came to our Navy to destroy the Eilat military plattform and two of its large
ships,we wanted to make it from long distance,about 15 km,equal 30 km go and come,
so it was too hard for frogmen to swim all this rang,we thought if could use a small boat
to reduce the way,but it was very noisy and any Israel patrol can blow it up in one second,
so a genius man revised engine to be a very quiet,so you can stand off beside it and hear
nothing almost,and we did it and we succeeded.

Italy used battery powered electric motors for some Torpedo boats and sub chasers during WW1 to allow them to move silently for short periods.

I spoke about Gasoline powered engine ?!.
 
British commandos used silenced outboard motors on some of their folding kayaks (folboats) as early as WW2, so the idea wasn't that new. And US Navy SEALs were using silenced ouaboards on some if their much larger STAB type craft in the 1960s as well. Still an accomplishment for the Egyptian commandos but not without precedent.
 
Most of them were electric engines,the accomplishment was for Gas engine.
 
From my understanding, the problem is one of, "how fast do you want to go?" The faster the engine to propel a boat, the greater the number of detonations which the silencer has to quieten. The greater the number of detonations, the greater the noise. I think the biggest problem would be the silencing materials and design of the silencers. You could make silent high-speed engines but they were need a massive silencer. During WWII, the Royal Navy developed silenced engines for it's MGBs and MLs. These boats were regularly used to insert and extract agents and returning PoWs from enemy coast lines. However, because of the size of the engines and how fast they turned, their speed while silenced was limited to about 5-7 knots. After WWII more work was undertaken but once you start going to higher speeds you have noise from the passage of the boat through the water and the rougher the water the higher that noise becomes.
 
hesham said:
Most of them were electric engines,the accomplishment was for Gas engine.

I know the SEAL boat engines were gasoline outboards. The pictures I've seen of the WW2 FolBoat motors appear to be small one-cylinder two-stroke gas motors of the type common to contemporary yacht tenders (roughly 1 hp).
 
hesham said:
it's done by Egyptian Navy,during 1968/69, the orders came to our Navy to destroy the Eilat military plattform and two of its large ships, ... so a genius man revised engine to be a very quiet,so you can stand off beside it and hear nothing almost,and we did it and we succeeded.
Destroy Eilat military platform and 2 large ships?
Do you have a date when this happened, and some online reference?
 
There were actually several Egyptian frogman attacks on ships in Eilat harbor between 1969 and 70 during the War of Attrition. Details are very hard to come by, but I found several ships damaged and one maybe a constructive loss.

This page seems to have a reasonably comprehensive and objective list:

http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?f=149&t=55113
 
TomS said:
There were actually several Egyptian frogman attacks on ships in Eilat harbor between 1969 and 70 during the War of Attrition. Details are very hard to come by, but I found several ships damaged and one maybe a constructive loss.

This page seems to have a reasonably comprehensive and objective list:

http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?f=149&t=55113
That page does not list any "large ship destroyed". The most listed is damaging 2 civvie merchantmen in 1969 and some damage to LCT Bat Sheva + small utility boat Bat Galim in 1970.

Those are known facts. I did not recognize them right away in "destroy the Eilat military platform and 2 large ships". Silly me.
Well, different cultures relate to historical facts in different ways. (Not new but still sometimes, um, surprising)
 
dan_inbox said:
TomS said:
There were actually several Egyptian frogman attacks on ships in Eilat harbor between 1969 and 70 during the War of Attrition. Details are very hard to come by, but I found several ships damaged and one maybe a constructive loss.

This page seems to have a reasonably comprehensive and objective list:

http://www.soviet-empire.com/ussr/viewtopic.php?f=149&t=55113
That page does not list any "large ship destroyed". The most listed is damaging 2 civvie merchantmen in 1969 and some damage to LCT Bat Sheva + small utility boat Bat Galim in 1970.

Those are known facts. I did not recognize them right away in "destroy the Eilat military platform and 2 large ships". Silly me.
Well, different cultures relate to historical facts in different ways. (Not new but still sometimes, um, surprising)

I don't think they actually destroyed anything other than the mentioned ships. Their orders were to attempt to destroy the "Military platform" (which I assume means a military base?) and they set out to investigate the means to do that (ie silenced boat engines)...
 
Please read,

we destroyed two ships called Bat Sheva and Bat Galim,and some of small ships,I meant by large
they used in carrying equipments,troops and tanks,so they are big enough,but essentially I spoke
about the accomplishment of silent Gas engine in this period.

https://ar.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%BA%D8%A7%D8%B1%D8%A7%D8%AA_%D9%85%D8%B5%D8%B1_%D8%B9%D9%84%D9%89_%D9%85%D9%8A%D9%86%D8%A7%D8%A1_%D8%A5%D9%8A%D9%84%D8%A7%D8%AA

translate;

https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Far.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2F%25D8%25BA%25D8%25A7%25D8%25B1%25D8%25A7%25D8%25AA_%25D9%2585%25D8%25B5%25D8%25B1_%25D8%25B9%25D9%2584%25D9%2589_%25D9%2585%25D9%258A%25D9%2586%25D8%25A7%25D8%25A1_%25D8%25A5%25D9%258A%25D9%2584%25D8%25A7%25D8%25AA
 
Hi Hesham,

Please verify your facts better. One important difference is between "damaged" and "destroyed".
For example INS Bat Sheva was definitely NOT destroyed in the 1970 / Attrition war, since she served through the 1973 Yom-kippur/Tishreen war and even into the 1982 Shalom-la-Galil/1st Lebanon war.

It's nothing against the courage and valor of Egyptian divers (which all of us ack as very high), its just about getting facts right.
They tried their best, they gave their all, but they achieved only "some damage". Not destruction.
 

Attachments

  • INS Bat Sheva LST landing M113 Saida Lebanon 1982-06.jpg
    INS Bat Sheva LST landing M113 Saida Lebanon 1982-06.jpg
    83.2 KB · Views: 30
OK my dear Dan,

but I focus on quiet Gas engine achievement.
 

Similar threads

Back
Top Bottom