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Author Topic: Greek F-18L?  (Read 807 times)

Offline Lascaris

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Greek F-18L?
« on: October 05, 2018, 02:06:20 am »
Debate is still going on in Greece, among the interested,  on whether back in the early 1980s Greece should had bought and locally produced F-18s instead of the mix of F-16Cs and Mirage-2000s it actually bought. The preference for the latter two was very much a political decision  (partly influenced by the possibility of an arms embargo on Greece and Turkey if war happened, more influenced by Papandreou wanting to keep Mitterrand sweet) while the air force had decided on the Hornet.

A smaller part of the debate is which F-18 Greece was supposed to be buying 100-120 of. Both Northop and McAir had offered their versions and at least in 1981 the air force was preferring L to A, but the final decision was delayed to 1984, by which point I'm inclined to think it would be probably too late for F-18L?

So how practical is for the Greeks to buy F-18L, local co-production as path of the deal and with an initial order of around 100 aircraft  (plus options that will happen, Greece ended up buying 225 aircraft in total OTL) sometime between 1981 and 1984, given the troubles between Northop and McAir at the time. And if it IS practical does it affect other potential customers,  like Spain?
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 11:55:42 am by Lascaris »

Offline r16

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Re: Greek F-18L?
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2018, 03:48:34 am »
10 to 7 is the answer . American aid gives 10 dollars to us , 7 to Greeks . There is no way you will get an agreement on what's the numerical value of an F-18 to a 16 . Ours was fixed to Falcon by the 1970s European refusal to have us as a partner .

Offline Lascaris

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Re: Greek F-18L?
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2018, 03:12:34 am »
10 to 7 is the answer . American aid gives 10 dollars to us , 7 to Greeks . There is no way you will get an agreement on what's the numerical value of an F-18 to a 16 . Ours was fixed to Falcon by the 1970s European refusal to have us as a partner .

7 to 10 at the time was in terms of American military aid, which I think you'll agree was very much dwindling for both our countries at the time when  compared to the amounts spent by either side from the national budgets on defence. Further it was being counted in dollar values not on how many Hornets match a Falcom in capability. While I suspect F-15 for example wouldn't be available for export to either our countries Hornets were very much on offer, as noted both McAir and Northop had made tenders which were looking to win.

Speaking of your side of the Aegean,  I understand that F-20 had been offered for licenced construction and there was some thought on acquiring a couple squadrons of Tornados in the strike role? How serious was either of the two proposals?

Offline r16

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Re: Greek F-18L?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2018, 12:02:33 am »
this will take a long time coming , but Italians actually paid their share of bakshish required before that American Navy guy arrived in Europe , declared himself as the official handler , started peddling 404 EPE which was coming along finely and APG-65 by forcing the proposed  interdictors  to become F-4s . British said nothing , Germans took the 65 , to put that into the EFA , which the British objected so went to F-4Fs instead . Because the USN guy simply gave the phone number of Lehman , who was busy pushing the Forward Strategy for NATO and concrete in the nose of F-2s were a threat to his own life , the US politician  flying A-6s as a reservist .

there's indeed some weird numbering that goes on and Gorbachev used to prove his integrity and honesty to decrease required amounts of Floggers as Flankers and Fulcrums entered service , not in changing squadrons , but decreasing numbers according to the tables .

f-16
refused A/B by Europeans
F-16/79 because taking advantage of the engine firm's reach
refused by Americans for funny reasons
F-18 and F-20
still refused by Americans
f-16C-30 and onwards because engine firm , ı don't know , is honest , will not leave us in the cold

the story goes when the Greeks were shopping for a new fighter , Lockheed Martin used brochures with standart US and hence Turkish camouflage , instead of the distinctive Greek colours , telling the Greeks like had no option . Unless of course they were ready to pay for "themselves" . That and the Olympics nipped your EFAs right in the bud .