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Author Topic: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family  (Read 1514 times)

Offline pometablava

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Re: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2018, 07:12:43 am »
May I suggest open a new topic on Warrior AI before going too off topic here?

Offline jsport

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Re: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family
« Reply #46 on: August 08, 2018, 08:32:42 am »
Why have humans in the vehicle at all?  Why not make it an unmanned ground vehicle?
Autonomous sensor-carrying drones, fusion of data broadcast by those drones - both feasible with current technology. I have some doubts about the vulnerability of information networks in combat. Whether you stop at autonomous sensor-drones or go the whole way with unmanned or even autonomous fighting vehicles, communication with assets is necessary to keep track of what's going on. Reliance on information networks can be reduced with autonomous assets - but where do you stop?
I believe that an unmanned ground vehicle would be a step too far - for one, I think you would need AI to overcome network vulnerability and I don't think AI has progressed enough. More importantly, I don't think we should proceed in that direction - I find the idea of unmanned MBTs scary.
Where do you stop on autonomy? Might agree that AI MBTs are scary.. AI that overcomes network vulnerability possibly scary. Halting progress when others do not is also always scary. Plenty of experimentation and maybe time.

NGCV is a large caliber (doesn't specify 152mm or 155mm) Direct Fire/Indirect fire 40ton vehicle it appears. These concepts have the combat profile of a skyscaper. Ammo is probably why, thus the need for better gearbox/engine/generator.

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net/ndia/2018/science/Singleton.pdf
How about a NGCV IFV w/ a 105mm CTA and resembling the original GCV concept's heavy side armor.

Offline Arjen

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Re: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2018, 05:28:32 am »
How about a NGCV IFV w/ a 105mm CTA and resembling the original GCV concept's heavy side armor.
There are the CV90105 and CV90120, private venture CV90-variants fitted with 105mm and 120mm guns. So far, no buyers have been found for either variant.

Offline jsport

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Re: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2018, 07:42:14 am »
How about a NGCV IFV w/ a 105mm CTA and resembling the original GCV concept's heavy side armor.
There are the CV90105 and CV90120, private venture CV90-variants fitted with 105mm and 120mm guns. So far, no buyers have been found for either variant.
Good observation. IMHO opinion the CV90s are too small.

Offline Arjen

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Re: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2018, 10:50:14 am »
IMHO opinion the CV90s are too small.
Too small for what? For an IFV? Roughly the same size as an M2 Bradley, carries slightly more troops. Or as a light tank?

Offline jsport

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Re: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family
« Reply #50 on: August 09, 2018, 06:00:10 pm »
IMHO opinion the CV90s are too small.
Too small for what? For an IFV? Roughly the same size as an M2 Bradley, carries slightly more troops. Or as a light tank?
Bradley is smaller than AMPV (roughly what NGCV 40t needs to be in size) and clearly the CV is smaller than Bradley.

Offline Arjen

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Re: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family
« Reply #51 on: August 09, 2018, 11:04:30 pm »
Again, why do you think CV90 is too small? I would guess that would depend on what it's used for. AMPV is smaller than a Terex Titan, but that has a different mission.

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family
« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2018, 05:55:18 am »
CV90:

Weight   2335 tonnes (Mk0 to MkIII)
Length   6.55 m
Width   3.1 m
Height   2.7 m
Crew           3 (commander, gunner, driver)
Passengers 8 troopers

M2 Bradley:

Weight   27.6 tonnes (30.4 short tons)
Length   21.49 ft (6.55 m)
Width   11.82 ft (3.6 m)
Height   9.78 ft (2.98 m)
Crew             3 (commander, gunner, driver)
Passengers  6 (7 in M2A2 ODS/M2A3) 

CV90 appears to be longer and narrower than the M2.  They appear approximately comparable in weight.


Offline Arjen

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Re: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family
« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2018, 06:48:27 am »
M2 Bradley is wider and higher than CV90, just as long. As already noted - roughly the same size. If CV90 is too small, same goes for M2. I still don't know by WHICH criteria it's too small. In some circumstances, being bigger can be a disadvantage - mobility, posing a target. Bigger generally means more expensive too.

As for big: that's what a fully armoured MBT with a passenger compartment and 150mm gun is going to be, not just for the passengers' sake, but also because of the bigger ammo carried - autoloader mandatory, because a human loader can't handle those big shells. Plus vehicle weight. Think 80, 90 tonnes. Then imagine how to get that to where it is needed - by air, by road, by train?

Offline jsport

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Re: New MBT Concept, roughly based on the MBT 70 family
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2018, 12:57:34 pm »
NGCV IFV 40-50 ton