Register here

Author Topic: Tempest - UK Future fighter programme  (Read 29872 times)

Offline Hood

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1104
Re: Tempest - UK Future fighter programme
« Reply #300 on: February 16, 2019, 06:09:36 am »
The answer is of course simple, Spain is guaranteed workshare in SCAF as what was once CASA is now part of Airbus.
Leonardo's Caselle facility and the F-35 facility at Cameri are not part of the Airbus empire so there is no reason for Dassault or Airbus to give up a stakehold unless political reasons to provide a sweetener to get Italian Euros for the programme become pressing.

Let's look at what the F-35 deal included, over 27 directly contracted Italian companies plus over 70 sub-contractors for the airframe and 9 directly contracted Italian companies for the engine side, potentially $14 billion dollars worth of contracts by 2039 with already almost $2 billion awarded.
So its only right that Italy wants a similar large-scale deal if they are to join the Franco-German programme.

As to whether sticking with FCAS/Team Tempest or Franco-German is the best choice who knows. Both have political commitments with cash behind them. The Franco-German fighter is a concept, the Anglo FCAS is still rather more nebulous as to what might actually come out of it. Team Tempest has opted to the start with the systems, Dassabus seems to be going the traditional way and going down the airframe/engines route early on but its very early days in both programmes. If I was to bet on which one is more likely to reach hardware, my money would go on Dassabus (or Airsault).  ;)

Offline LowObservable

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2149
Re: Tempest - UK Future fighter programme
« Reply #301 on: February 16, 2019, 06:19:17 am »
potentially $14 billion dollars worth of contracts by 2039

This reminds me of an old, rude and non-PC joke about the difference between "potentially" and "actually".

Offline TomcatViP

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 674
  • Hellcat
Re: Tempest - UK Future fighter programme
« Reply #302 on: February 16, 2019, 12:46:22 pm »
Airframe dev cycle have been cut short drastically (thanks to CAE and integrated virtual simulation testing). It's a reality that we can see today with the plethora of programs colliding in our old rythmed agenda. 
Team tempest took the right path (just like did PCA).

Offline kaiserd

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 523
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: Tempest - UK Future fighter programme
« Reply #303 on: February 16, 2019, 03:09:30 pm »
Airframe dev cycle have been cut short drastically (thanks to CAE and integrated virtual simulation testing). It's a reality that we can see today with the plethora of programs colliding in our old rythmed agenda. 
Team tempest took the right path (just like did PCA).

Not sure you can make an actual informed distinction between “Team Tempest” and potentially rival projects in terms of what approach(es)/ paths they are or are not actually taking.
And it’s too early to sit on judgement on if “Team Tempest” has taken the right approach/ path.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2019, 09:32:27 pm by Jemiba »

Offline TomcatViP

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 674
  • Hellcat
Re: Tempest - UK Future fighter programme
« Reply #304 on: February 16, 2019, 04:59:03 pm »
My comment is limited to early design work being routed in direction of systems rather than airframe design. Not an overall GodEye assumption of the merits of both  ;)

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22832
Re: Tempest - UK Future fighter programme
« Reply #305 on: March 03, 2019, 07:12:41 am »
This is a sketch from BAE Warton media day that was much earlier.
Probably these top down views of these studies are based on sketches from that BAE Warton media day.

Source: Air Force Monthly, Issue September 2018, page 96

The last one is beauty.

Offline FighterJock

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 920
Re: Tempest - UK Future fighter programme
« Reply #306 on: March 03, 2019, 09:41:03 am »
This is a sketch from BAE Warton media day that was much earlier.
Probably these top down views of these studies are based on sketches from that BAE Warton media day.

Source: Air Force Monthly, Issue September 2018, page 96

The last one is beauty.

Certainly is hesham, I wonder if it will ever be built though.  Probably not, which will be a pity.

Offline Harrier

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 959
  • BAe P.1216 book: harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm
Re: Tempest - UK Future fighter programme
« Reply #307 on: March 03, 2019, 10:42:05 am »
The head of Warton's project team used to keep a Star Wars TIE fighter on his desk.

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1991/1991%20-%200426.html

attached is another, from the 'Clone Wars'.

Maybe...?
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft: www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm

100 Years  - Camel, Hurricane, Harrier: www.kingstonaviation.org

Offline Harrier

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 959
  • BAe P.1216 book: harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft: www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm

100 Years  - Camel, Hurricane, Harrier: www.kingstonaviation.org

Offline Hood

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1104
Re: Tempest - UK Future fighter programme
« Reply #309 on: March 18, 2019, 06:32:37 am »
Italy, via Leonardo, is strongly pushing to join the Tempest programme citing close industrial and military alignment that favours this option.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/leonardo-targets-role-on-uks-tempest-next-gen-fight-456692/