Register here

Author Topic: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers  (Read 1545 times)

Offline uk 75

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1213
From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« on: March 12, 2018, 04:20:23 am »
Leafing through the new Tony Buttler work on UK Bombers Secret projects, I still found myself confused by the evolution of Vickers and BAC tactical swing wing aircraft.

I think I have the chronology as follows (using pics raided from other threads on this site)

Type 581 to OR346 in 1961 which uses Foxbat/Vigilante style intakes

Type 583 of 1962 which moves over to TSR2 style intakes but appears in both NASA style wing gloves and Swallow style

Finally we evolve into Type 589 with TSR 2 style intakes with NASA wing gloves in 1963.

Confusingly the Type 583 model was shown at a Secret BAC Exhibition in 1964 when the design was already superseded by 589.

Can anyone help further, as none of the publishes sources do.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 21635
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 04:37:11 pm »
That needs good search.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10649
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 06:52:45 pm »
It's common practice to display old configurations that have been superceded at shows as a way of showing capability without revealing your current design to potential competitors. The point of the 1964 exhibition was to demonstrate that BAC had been working on VG for some time so it's quite expected they would use models of earlier configs.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline zen

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 802
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2018, 05:28:09 am »
So.....to my understanding....one of the factors for different inlets has to be the difference between weight and cost and performance.

The old 'Mouse ears' half conic translating shock-cone type are technically lighter in weight, but fabrication is expensive.
While the square 'ramp-type' inlets are easier to fabricate.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 05:33:27 am by zen »

Offline TsrJoe

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 247
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #4 on: March 14, 2018, 07:17:16 am »
not sure how visible the link may be, here's a Facebook album of Type 583 material which may be of interest ? ... https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.595866093915883&type=3

cheers, Joe
...'excuse me mister, is that plane for real'...!!!

IPMS (UK) 'Project Cancelled' SIG. co,co-ordinator
IPMS (UK) 'TSR-2', 'Cold War' & 'What-if' SIG. Member

Offline uk 75

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1213
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2018, 02:48:48 pm »
Joe
Thanks for the link. The What If Forum
contributed some good models as well.
I remain hooked on these 60s projects.
Shame the published sources do not share
my enthusiasm

Offline starviking

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 908
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2018, 06:34:10 pm »
Joe
Thanks for the link. The What If Forum
contributed some good models as well.
I remain hooked on these 60s projects.
Shame the published sources do not share
my enthusiasm

I probably speak for many forum members when I say that I also share your enthusiasm.

Maybe we'll see a ProjectTech book on the topic in the future...

Offline Foo Fighter

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 458
  • I came, I saw, I drank some tea (and had a bun).
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2018, 02:18:28 am »
I tired the facething page but navigation fails.

Offline CJGibson

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1073
  • TAATH is coming...
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2018, 02:28:09 am »
Maybe we'll see a ProjectTech book on the topic in the future...


Somebody needs to pitch it and we'll think about it. Can't publish blank pages (although some do).

Your mission is to... proceed up the Nung River in a Navy patrol boat. Pick up Colonel Kurtz's path at Nu Mung Ba, follow it, and…write about the Vickers VG studies

Chris

Offline starviking

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 908
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2018, 03:31:18 am »
Maybe we'll see a ProjectTech book on the topic in the future...


Somebody needs to pitch it and we'll think about it. Can't publish blank pages (although some do).

Your mission is to... proceed up the Nung River in a Navy patrol boat. Pick up Colonel Kurtz's path at Nu Mung Ba, follow it, and…write about the Vickers VG studies

Chris

Sadly on the wrong side of the planet for it. I will start honing my teleperception skills forthwith.

Offline uk 75

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1213
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2018, 12:21:09 pm »
Chris  I am a facebook member but only in a limited way. The link is useful but you have to be a facebook member to use.

I am afraid that my limited skills do not run to research (not least I have no scientific or service knowledge base).  I am surprised though that this period
does not interest more historians/technical writers.  The plane designs are just so cool.

I covet the What If models (I have had some Philippine copies made by the old Collectors Aircraft Models, but these are not relevant to serious research).
The George Cox collection features heavily in the new Buttler books (it is unique in the UK).

Offline CJGibson

  • Top Contributor
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 1073
  • TAATH is coming...
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2018, 01:30:12 pm »
What Facebook link? Not me guv!

Chris

Offline uk 75

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 1213
Re: From 581 to 589: Vickers to BAC swing wingers
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2018, 02:05:20 pm »
Sorry paw and brain out of sync, meant Joe