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Author Topic: Italian Heavy Fighters  (Read 41528 times)

Offline archipeppe

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #15 on: September 28, 2012, 03:56:01 am »
Time ago, I got some material of  the Santangelo Sturmovino, characterized by its two engines "Monsone" license copy on the germn Daimler Benz DB-601 , Heavy armed with 2 guns and 3 machines guns
Saludos


Many thanks for such other precious drawing.


This the first time that I heard about this project, and in my opinion, it resemble more the Bf-110C "zerstorer" rather than any Russian "sturmovick"....

Offline Aviostoria

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #16 on: September 28, 2012, 01:26:03 pm »
From: Italian civil and military aircraft 1930-1945 of Jonathan Thompson
MB.902
Designed by Ing. Bellomo, the MB.902 twin-engined, single seat heavy fighter had just entered the final stages of construction when the events of September, 1943, put a halt to its development, and the prototype was destroyed.
An extremely unorthodox design, the all-metal MB.902 mounted two 1.475 hp. FIAT RA.1050 R.C. 58 Tifone (license-built DB 605A) twelve-cylinder vee engines buried in the fuselage and driving twin contra-rotanting airscrews in the wings by extension shaft. This resulted in a well-stramlined airframe with the advantage of centralized firepower (two 20-mm. cannon and four 12,7-mm. machine guns) without the drag of engines nacelles. A further refinement was the tricycle landind gear.
 
Note of Aviostoria:
L'ing. Andrea Bellomo was Capitain of Regia Aeronautica. The project was private venture of Bellomo and the construction was assigned of D.G.C.A. at firm Aeronautica Umbra S.A. Costruzioni Aeronautiche e Meccaniche of Foligno.

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #17 on: September 28, 2012, 08:24:40 pm »
Ok so the Direzione Superiore Studi ed Esperienze (DSSE) at Guidonia was a bit like the Royal Aircraft Establishment in the UK or the DVL in Germany?

Sort of. But, AFAIK, neither the post-Royal Aircraft Factory RAE nor the DVL  actually designed aircraft. They may have initiated concepts (eg: the Ju 49) or designed components but not actual aircraft. Does anyone know differently?

Offline MC72

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #18 on: September 29, 2012, 04:25:55 pm »
I found the Caproni Ca.380 Corsaro (Corsair); According to the competition was jointly selected with Savoia Marchetti SM.91 for more detailed assessments in Guidonia.
 Also found more information about the Santangelo fighter, which has a really strong arms, like two powerful 47 mm guns with 35 proiectiles each or replacing it with a one Ansaldo 75 mm gun! References submitted by  Gaspare Santangelo itself, in an interview for rvista "Aerotecnica" of 1946.
Saludos
MC72

Always around

Offline Alcides

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #19 on: September 29, 2012, 10:24:15 pm »
Very interesting. Gracias MC72. The  Savoia Marchetti SM.91looks great I've found more information about that one.

Offline Skybolt

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #20 on: September 30, 2012, 07:22:02 am »
Er, gentlemen, no. No competition between the Ca-380/1 and the Sm-91/92.
You'll find the complete story in ISP, but I can anticipate that:
1) SM-92 was a derivative, conceived in January 1942 of the Sm-88, then in development as a very fast light bomber. The idea was to suppress the central fuselage and locate the pilots in the left one. SM-92 was of metallic construction
2) SM-91 as flown (actually there were three different "SM-91" between 1939 and 1943) too is a derivative of the Sm-88 from late 1942 and was originally designated SM-88D (for "distruttore", destroyer, zerstorer), intended for series production as a night fighter and development with DB-603s. Metallic construction.
3) Ca-380/1 is a project from late 1942 and was intended as an autarchic heavy fighter, entirely built of wood. The idea was to duplicate the Mosquito. There was no apparent competition, even though there is a number of projects dated from mid-1942 that are similar in scope. For example, the Sm-94.
Turning to DSSE, as an istitution they actually designed aircraft (for example the Guidonia-II bomber), and their employees indulged in participating to official competition (Santangelo, thrice, and Bellomo, twice, notably) or advocating private ventures (Trigona, for example). Not surprisingly, both Santangelo and Bellomo "won" their competitions, but no company actually built their design. I can add that another official institution, the Research Bureau of the Ispettorato Superiore Tecnico Militare (ISTEM) designed aircrafts. ISTEM depended from the Regia's Chief of Staff Office, while DSSE was a directorate of Ministero dell'Aeronautica.

Offline lark

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #21 on: October 03, 2012, 07:54:32 am »
Glad to see you back on the forum Marco  :)
Your expertise was dearly missed..

Offline hesham

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2012, 03:42:37 am »
Hi,


there is misunderstanding in Umbra MB.902 designation,there were two drawings,
one to Bellomo as CB or SCA.901,and the other is MB.902.

Offline lucamax

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2012, 11:47:48 am »
The first design was the original draw of the Bellomo Fighter named C.B. (Caccia Bellomo) and the second was the final evolution of the same project but with heavy changes. In 1941 the program was given to AUSA (Aeronautica Umbra) and in the same year Bellomo started to modify his design. The final draw appeared in 1942 under the official name of MB 902.

Offline lark

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #24 on: November 21, 2012, 01:00:06 pm »
Thanks for your clarification Lucamax..

Offline hesham

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2013, 09:34:27 am »
Hi,


for the Macchi MC.301,two prototypes,MM.438 & MM.439,but may be never
materialized.

Offline hesham

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2013, 05:30:45 am »
Dear friends,


I found the 3-views of the "Bimotore Santangelo" which I think it was a purpose for an heavy fighter (maybe the Santangelo C.S. of the topic, but I'm not sure about that). Unfortunately the picture was very very little and of bad quality, so I tried to enlarge a bit... Does someone have some info or better pictures about the project?


Anther drawing to Santagelo C.S heavy fighter,note the rear gun of the canopy.


http://alternathistory.org.ua/tyazhelyi-istrebitel-ausa-mb902

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2013, 02:35:59 pm »
Thanks Hesham. I'm finding the article linked to somewhat confusing. It implies that the Bombardamento Santangelo was offered first to Breda (who declined), then to Piaggion which was to build the BS as their P.125. But I was under the impression that the P.125 was to have been a heavy fighter.

Elsewhere, the article seems to be saying that the Societa Construzioni Aeronautiche received the production order for the the Bombardamento Santangelo (as the SCA/Ansaldo Bombardier). But no mention of who was to build the Caccia Santangelo.

Does that mean that the two GAri designers were in direct competition? The Caccia Bellomo was chosen to be built by AUSA as the MB.902, therefore no production for the Caccia Santangelo design?

Offline hesham

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2013, 03:00:40 pm »
Thanks Hesham. I'm finding the article linked to somewhat confusing. It implies that the Bombardamento Santangelo was offered first to Breda (who declined), then to Piaggion which was to build the BS as their P.125. But I was under the impression that the P.125 was to have been a heavy fighter.

Elsewhere, the article seems to be saying that the Societa Construzioni Aeronautiche received the production order for the the Bombardamento Santangelo (as the SCA/Ansaldo Bombardier). But no mention of who was to build the Caccia Santangelo.

Does that mean that the two GAri designers were in direct competition? The Caccia Bellomo was chosen to be built by AUSA as the MB.902, therefore no production for the Caccia Santangelo design?


My dear Apophenia,


can you send this article,to be honest,I have no more info about Santangelo fighter,may be the
Italian members can help us.

Offline Apophenia

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Re: Italian Heavy Fighters
« Reply #29 on: June 01, 2013, 10:54:37 am »
Hesham: My reference was to the 'alternathistory.org' link that you posted.