Jet trainers without jets?

cluttonfred

cluttonfred

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The Rhein-Flugzeugbau GmbH (RFB) Fantrainer was a 1970s attempt to develop a propeller-driven, relatively low-cost trainer to provide a jet-like experience without the initial cost and operating expenses of a jet engine. Initially powered by two piston engines driving a single ducted fan, it eventually evolved into a single-turboprop design, though only the Royal Thai Air Force actually used them in any numbers. A German company still promotes and improved version called the Fanjet 600, though the role for which the Fantrainer was designed was eventually filled by more conventional tractor-engine, tandem-seat turboprops from Pilatus, Embraer, etc. Does anyone know of any other designs--projects or prototypes or production--like the Fantrainer/Fanjet that sought to replicate the jet trainer experience without jet cost by using a a pusher propeller, ducted fan, or other less-conventional approach?

Fantrainer.jpg


rfb_fantrainer_600-75962.jpg


rfb-at1-2-fantrainer-cutaway-drawing-4580624.jpg
 
PC-21 has a jet training capability with high wing loading and a scheduled power output controlled through a power management system, the aircraft is designed to mimic a small jet trainer.
 

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I think, he meant something like the Ric-Jet 4, designed by George Richter around 1975 and using
a ducted fan (photo from AirInternational 9-77)
 

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We have the Vought 'Eaglet', for the US NGT requirement . . .

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2022.msg17189.html#msg17189


cheers,
Robin.
 
Thanks, the Richter Ric-Jet 4 and the Vought/VFW Eaglet (a derivative of the RFB Fantrainer) are more in like with what I had in mind, keep 'em coming!
 
At the smaller end, the unbuilt Saunders S4-A JetHawk?

https://minijets.org/fr/autres-moteurs/ducted-fans/saunders-s4-a-jet-hawk-ii/
 
Slow but, outside the box can work. Perhaps they can improve with time.
 
WW2 had two very Unusual Trainer version

Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka Model 43B was manned flying bomb, first as glider drop from bomber, later Rocket powert
In order to learn to fly those things they build Model 43 K-1 Kai Wakazakura (Young Cherry)

here two only models build, here examine by US force after WW2
Kugisho_22.jpg


Fieseler Fi 103R Reichenberg was manned V1 version for "Selbstopferung" by SS
according some historical info they wanted also a Trainer version of this contraption...
similar configuration like Model 43 K-1 Kai Wakazakura, but if this was build is unclear to me

Reichenberg_1945.jpg
 
Foo Fighter said:
Slow but, outside the box can work. Perhaps they can improve with time.
Click to expand...

Ducted fans can be tricky to get right but I think something like the UL-39 could find a real market in the same way that the Loehle 5151 (wood and fabric ultralight/microlight that looked like a P-51 Mustang but flew like a J-3 Cub) did back in 1980s-1990s. It's too bad that they chose to model the Eastern Bloc L-39 as I think a Western "warbird" type would have been more marketable.

640px-Loehle_5151_Mustang_HAG_FlyParty_2012.jpg
 
That may work for the civilian market but the cost is possibly prohibitive. Besides it would add nothing new and military types are unlikely to consider it as a classic warbird type.
 
Thailand's Royal AF, who operated the Fanjet, attempted to design a trainer/observation aircraft in a layout similar to the Bronco, but only developed one prototype, the RTAF-5. Additional information and pictures: http://www.wings-aviation.ch/11-RTAF/2-Aircraft/RTAF-5/Prototype.htm
 

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the fastest trainer without jets... B)

Me.163S
 

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Michel Van said:
Fieseler Fi 103R Reichenberg was manned V1 version for "Selbstopferung" by SS
according some historical info they wanted also a Trainer version of this contraption...
similar configuration like Model 43 K-1 Kai Wakazakura, but if this was build is unclear to me

Reichenberg_1945.jpg
Click to expand...



My records show that after the end of the war two hulls of the Reichenberg Re-III were found, that was the two-seater trainer version of the Fi. 103.
 
Focus, people, focus! ;-) The request was, "Does anyone know of any other designs--projects or prototypes or production--like the Fantrainer/Fanjet that sought to replicate the jet trainer experience without jet cost by using a a pusher propeller, ducted fan, or other less-conventional approach?" I think it's safe to say that operational trainers for rocket-powered fighters and piloted suicide planes are pretty far off topic. That Thai Bronco-like trainer is interesting, kind a a mix of the Bronco and Fantrainer ideas, too bad they didn't develop it further.
 
I worked for someone who did his back in while training on the Me 163S. IIRC it was the infamous shock-absorber-that-sometimes-didn't that was responsible. On the other hand he counted himself lucky insofar as he would almost certainly have been killed had he completed his training and gone operational.

As for the original question, I can't think of any comparable "jet-like" trainer. The Fantrainer itself eventually morphed into the horrible Rockwell Ranger 2000, which was quite properly eliminated from the JPATS competition.
 
Although not a serious jet trainer contender, I think you're looking for something like the PJ-II.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSW6Ay8praE
 

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One of the designs in John Edgely's patent for ducted fan aircraft could be a suggestion for a jet-like trainer

Post #6 here

https://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,3915.msg312442.html
 
The problem you run into is that looks (jet-like cockpit) are one thing and performance (specific thrust) is another. Just because I put a WHIPPED CREAM label on a can of shaving foam doesn't mean you'd like it on your pumpkin pie.

By the way - the Paramount folks will tell you that AHRLAC can serve as a trainer, but that's part of their "we'll have massive orders tomorrow" marketing strategy.
 
Not sure what you mean by a jet-like cockpit (after all Jet Provost and Gnat T2 are chalk and cheese) but I agree about the propulsion system needing to emulate the broad characteristcs of a jet
 
LowObservable said:
A cockpit without a ****ing propeller in front of it! :D
Click to expand...

While it doesn't fit the criterion of a pointy nose with no propeller in front, the USAF T-28A was set up so that its flying characteristics and systems closely matched those of the early jets. (Hence the small engine, large amount of down-thrust, 2 bladed prop, and speed brake)
 
Has anyone considered the ARHLAK ground attack airplane recently developed in South Africa?

It is a twin-boom pusher that looks like an OV-10 mated with that Singapore prototype.
With a 950 hp. Pratt turbine, it tops out at 272 knots. Seats are in tandem, so the view is similar to many light jet trainers. The rear seat is higher (like a BAE Hawk) affording the rear seat (instructor) a better view.
It can carry almost 4,000 pounds.
 
from a few posts up:
LowObservable said:
The problem you run into is that looks (jet-like cockpit) are one thing and performance (specific thrust) is another. Just because I put a WHIPPED CREAM label on a can of shaving foam doesn't mean you'd like it on your pumpkin pie.

By the way - the Paramount folks will tell you that AHRLAC can serve as a trainer, but that's part of their "we'll have massive orders tomorrow" marketing strategy.
Click to expand...
 
Hello!
I do not know if I am irrelevant but the plane of training Socata Epsilon deserves in my opinion to appear in this topic because it was designed to have the characteristics of a jet ...
 

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Thanks, but the focus here is "any other designs--projects or prototypes or production--like the Fantrainer/Fanjet that sought to replicate the jet trainer experience without jet cost by using a pusher propeller, ducted fan, or other less-conventional approach?"
 
Rohr 2-175 was a pretty little delta prototype with two seats, side-by-side in the nose and a ringed fan blowing out the back. It was powered by a prototype Lycoming (?) that turned twice as fast as certified light airplane versions ..... hence the small diameter fan surrounded by a duct. Good thing Rohr’s primary product was jet engine nacelles for airliners because optimizing internal airflow was key. Merely adding a internal spinner doubled rate of climb!
Sadly, Rohr lost money - on other projects - and the 2-175 program ended.

(Photo via
https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/7g4raa
View: https://www.reddit.com/r/WeirdWings/comments/7g4raa/rohr_2175_deltawinged_fan_jet_powered_prototype/
)
 

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The delta configuration doesn't look right for a trainer.
The Rhein-Flugzeugbau Fantrainer looks a better approach.
 
What an awesome looking flying machine. Straight out of a James Bond movie.
 
The following may perhaps be of interest.

A light / private aircraft production project was launched in Canada in 1988. It originated from a futuristic West German single-engine two-seater aircraft. Designed by Rhein Flugzeugbau (RFB) in collaboration with the American company Grumman American Aviation, respectively subsidiaries of VFW-Fokker and Grumman Corporation, the Fanliner made its first flight in October 1973. Relatively uninterested in this aircraft, Grumman American Aviation completely turned away from it after its acquisition by American Jet Industries in 1978.

A military derivative of the Fanliner flew in October 1977. Although deemed superior in a competition organized around 1978 by the West German air force, the Fantrainer was not ordered. Only the Thai air force, or Kong Thap Akat Thai, signed a contract with RFB for just over 45 aircraft. These were assembled in the 1980s in air force workshops with locally made wings.

Fascinated by the Fanliner, the Canadian William H. "Bill" Rice purchased the sole prototype as well as the production rights in the fall of 1988. Having founded Fanstar Partners in the United States in 1985, with the help of a few investors, he oversaw the installation of new wings on the aircraft. Around 1987, Rice tried to convince large American and Canadian flight schools to order the light / private Fanstar, a new name adopted shortly before. The site where these aircraft would be produced remained to be chosen. That project went nowhere.

Fanstar Partners had another go at it in 1988. The company said it wanted to manufacture the Fanstar somewhere in Canada. The aircraft Fanstar Partners spoke of in 1988 was somewhat different from that envisioned in the previous year. It was actually a light / private four-seater aircraft derived from the Fantrainer. The company tried to find the funds to develop, certify and produce this aircraft. In fact, Fanstar Partners hoped to obtain federal and / or provincial financial assistance. That project was no more successful than its predecessor.

A new German company, Fanjet Aviation, bought the production rights and tooling in 2010. Its attempts to revive the Fanjet, a slightly modified Fantrainer, were unsuccessful. The company's webite was still up as of 2021... https://fanjetaviation.com/
 
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cluttonfred said:
The Rhein-Flugzeugbau GmbH (RFB) Fantrainer was a 1970s attempt to develop a propeller-driven, relatively low-cost trainer to provide a jet-like experience without the initial cost and operating expenses of a jet engine. Initially powered by two piston engines driving a single ducted fan, it eventually evolved into a single-turboprop design, though only the Royal Thai Air Force actually used them in any numbers. A German company still promotes and improved version called the Fanjet 600, though the role for which the Fantrainer was designed was eventually filled by more conventional tractor-engine, tandem-seat turboprops from Pilatus, Embraer, etc. Does anyone know of any other designs--projects or prototypes or production--like the Fantrainer/Fanjet that sought to replicate the jet trainer experience without jet cost by using a a pusher propeller, ducted fan, or other less-conventional approach?

Fantrainer.jpg


rfb_fantrainer_600-75962.jpg


rfb-at1-2-fantrainer-cutaway-drawing-4580624.jpg
Click to expand...
IMG-20191026-WA0084.jpg
If you don't mind, I'll post some pictures of what you say about RFBs at the Thailand museum. unfortunately exhibited outdoors..
 

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gwest9 said:
My father was the test pilot of the Rohr 2-175 (the only person to ever fly it). It was more stable than you think, but you're right, probably not a good trainer for initial flight training.
Click to expand...

Test pilot Don Westergren and engineer Richard M. Fraser worked on Rohr 2-175 prototypes and later co-wrote a book entitled "The Rohr 2-175 (71X) FanJet, a Tribute." The first print run sold out and Mr. Fraser has been mumbling about a second print run. I would pay retail for a well-illustrated edition of a book about this fascinating airplane.
 
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gwest9 said:
My father was the test pilot of the Rohr 2-175 (the only person to ever fly it)
Click to expand...
Was his call sign/handle "Husker" or "Starbuck?" Thing looks just like a Colonial Viper. At any rate-why not train on a real VLJ instead of a high end prop plane?
 

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