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Which subject would you like to see for "French secret projects 3"

French VTOL 1909-1999
18 (29%)
French spaceplanes : Transporteur Aérospatial to Hermès
10 (16.1%)
French secret projects:  fighters, bombers and other warplanes 1935-1942
34 (54.8%)
Others
0 (0%)
French hovercraft projects : Ader to SEDAM, Bertin etc...
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 62

Author Topic: French Secret Projects 3  (Read 1570 times)

Offline hesham

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2017, 05:54:31 am »
Dear JCC,

the period from 1935-42 is too small,no enough materials to make a book,but if you
include the military aircraft from 1930 to 1942 or 1945,you will find a large stuff to
create a good one.

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2017, 10:43:54 am »
Hensham

I had proposed 35-42 because before 1935 the Aircraft were still very much biplanes carry-over from WW1. Monoplanes were generalised only by mid-thirties. And 1942 was because I gave the designers two years of "downside" after the 1940 armistice. 1942 is also the date the German Wehrmacht invaded Zone Libre and hence put under control the Bureaux d'Etudes which had emigrated to Zone Sud.

JCC

Offline hesham

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2017, 02:41:28 pm »
I know that dear JCC,

but I speak about the materials itself is small,are them enough to make a book ?.

Offline Sherman Tank

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #18 on: October 16, 2017, 05:13:06 pm »
civil airplanes 1930-1942 ? you mean like airliners as in Arc-en-ciel and  small "biz-planes" like Simoun? That's way out of my waters !!! I could maybe do "airliners and business planes 1945-2005" but I tell you that if research to find original (period)material on warbirds for this period is difficult, I just would not know by which end tackling civilian subjects.

re : order of books.
*if* it depends on me it would be VTO (beginning with Blériot perhaps even earlier with Capazza) , then spaceplanes (I already took a few contacts and I think Hermes would not be too troublesome... that's the projects from the sixties which I expect to cause difficulties) and finally between-the-wars military. What I have on this last subject is mostly published material (Cuny, Leyvastre, Marchand and co) and considering the trouble the guys at Dassault have finding enough material to build a 1/1 MB 152, I fear a lot of material that was available thirty years ago has been lost, misplaced etc...
Pre-war company archives have got more or less, if not destroyed, turned into puzzle games by the various take-over, amalgamations, fusions etc...and private archive tend to evaporate with uninterested descendants ...

JCC

M. Carbonel,

I commiserate with you over the difficulty of navigating archive collections. I'm currently writing a book on pre-WW1 Royal Navy battle fleet development and the amount of missing material is astounding.  The Admiralty managed to completely lose all the files regarding the fleet maneuvers of 1908, which involved the bulk of the Royal Navy's ships!  It's taken me a decade and two graduate degrees just to be able to fill in part of the story.  And this is without a German occupation and several decades of corporate mergers, nationalizations, and bankruptcies to contend with!

Offline Geist

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2017, 06:40:05 am »
A FSP 3 - Sounds great JC! I'll be waiting for! ;)
Check out my other works at my website, leave your comments and download the wallpapers!
http://www.duhraviationart.com

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2017, 07:06:00 am »
Hesham, actually my fear is rather a certain blandness of the subject with long list of variants of Bloch 152, Dewoitine 520 and Arsenal VG30. I know that WW2 has sales potential but unfortunately for French wings they were crushed at the very beginning of the story, so we are actually talking "inter-war" period with a pacifist philosophy and shrinking military budgets and not much incentive to move the Bureaux d'Etudes. Things begun to really get alive in the last years of peace and then it was from people out of the mainstream : Delanne, Payen, Fauvel, etc... (Sébastienne Guyot too... a rare girl in the man-dominated world of aircraft designers).

Then I would like to add another proposal (can I modify the poll ? not sure) :
Aéroglisseurs : hovercraft à la française from Ader to Sedam

It is just something I thought of yesterday : we had a few pre-WW2 ideas and during the sixties and seventies Jean Bertin promoted a lot of different designs which could go on water, on ground, on rail even a few "air cushion landing gears" for aircraft (one is in FSP 2). The subject is barely known (I don't know of any French book on the subject, all the hovercraft books I have are in English or in Russian) and there are a lot of different designs going from tiny one-man demonstrators to 500-tons projects.

JCC

JCC

Offline Hobbes

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2017, 08:17:47 am »
I'm very interested in French spaceplanes : Transporteur Aérospatial to Hermès
also if include some french design for un/manned space capsule.

Luc van den Abeelen's book on Hermes is pretty comprehensive on the design evolution of Hermes. Were there other French spaceplane projects?

Offline hesham

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2017, 08:23:06 am »
OK dear JCC,

and I hope you get sufficient materials for great book.

Offline gatoraptor

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2017, 09:08:26 am »
Maybe you could stretch matters a bit and include wartime and postwar developments of French pre-war aircraft.  I'm thinking of types like the Swiss D-3803, which was effectively the ultimate update of the M.S.406 series.

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2017, 11:10:14 am »
I just bought Mr Van der Abeelen book on Hermes. I had this project before his book came out and yes it covers a lot of material and I have to reconsider the opportunity of doing my own book.

JCC

Offline JC Carbonel

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2017, 12:22:04 pm »
Just checked : I have around 250 entries in my FSP "between the wars" list but many are just engine changes from D52x, Amiot 35x, Br 69x, VG 3x etc...

Will have to have a second look before Telford.

JCC

Offline Deltafan

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2017, 03:00:02 pm »
Maybe you could stretch matters a bit and include wartime and postwar developments of French pre-war aircraft.  I'm thinking of types like the Swiss D-3803, which was effectively the ultimate update of the M.S.406 series.

It could be a good idea too (Dewoitine D.600, Latécoère 299A, D-3804,...)

But 250 entries seems to be already a big start...
« Last Edit: October 17, 2017, 03:04:48 pm by Deltafan »

Offline gatoraptor

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2017, 06:41:16 pm »
Maybe you could stretch matters a bit and include wartime and postwar developments of French pre-war aircraft.  I'm thinking of types like the Swiss D-3803, which was effectively the ultimate update of the M.S.406 series.

It could be a good idea too (Dewoitine D.600, Latécoère 299A, D-3804,...)

But 250 entries seems to be already a big start...

What the heck was the D-3804?

Offline Arjen

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2017, 02:07:14 am »

Offline Deltafan

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Re: French Secret Projects 3
« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2017, 04:45:02 am »
It could be a good idea too (Dewoitine D.600, Latécoère 299A, D-3804,...)

What the heck was the D-3804?
Oops, Mistake. D-3803, of course :-[

Probably my mind was confused with the Swiss C-36 series... : http://all-aero.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=3223:efw-c-36-c-3602-c-3603-c-3604-c-3605&catid=45

and in particular, the C-3604... : http://www.loutan.net/olivier/archives/2010/09/19/ateliers-federaux-de-construction-af-c-3604-aviation-suisse/

Sorry...



« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 05:00:17 am by Deltafan »