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Author Topic: Morane-Saulnier projects  (Read 5522 times)

Offline hesham

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Morane-Saulnier projects
« on: September 20, 2006, 09:56:45 am »
Little known aircraft and projects:

Morane-Saulnier MS.140 and MS.141: light air ambulance aircraft.

    ,,        ,,      MS.191:single engined two seat primary trainer aircraft.

    ,,        ,,      MS.250:two seat trainer and observation monoplane.

    ,,        ,,      MS.420:single-seat fighter based on MS.406 but with a completely retractable radiator.

     ,,       ,,        MS.440:single seat night fighter based on MS-406 also.

     ,,       ,,        MS.530:parasol wing two seat trainer aircraft.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2012, 02:54:27 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline hesham

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2006, 09:40:10 am »
Dear Jemiba,

give me one day and I will get to you the resources.
 
do you know the Morane-Saulnier MS.276,MS.277 and MS.278
single seat fighters which were based on MS.275 but fitted with
different engines.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2006, 10:05:19 am by hesham »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2006, 12:36:44 pm »
Here's a 3-view from Green/Swanborough "Fighters of the world" of the MS.275, basically a
development of the MS.225, first flown in 1934 .In "Flugzeuge von A - Z" the MS.278 is
mentioned as a further variant, modified from the MS.225 Noį 2 and fitted with a 520 hp
Clerget 14FOs Diesel engine. No hints to the 276 and 277, but you're probably right, that
it were proposals of the basic MS.275.
Well, a Putnam type encyclopedia, or better one from J.Cuny about the Morane a/c,
that would be really nice ... ::)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2006, 11:46:20 am »
Dear Jemiba,

the source to MS.420 and MS.440 was the book :The encyclopedia of aircraft
by Robert Jackson page 365.and for MS.276 and MS.277 was the french magazine
AVIONS. for MS.530 it was developed from MS.330 trainer and was first
fly in 1938 (not after the war),but I don't remember the source now.
Morane-Saulnier MS.122 was mention in the magazine AVIONS but without explain
I think it was a single seat fighter based on MS.121 .
Morane-Saulnier MS.260 :high wing two seat touring aircraft intended as a rival
                                  to De Havilland Puss Moth in france.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2006, 12:22:14 pm »
You are right, I was wrong ! The MS.530 really was a derivative of the MS.330 with
a 280hp Salmson 9ABd engine, covered with a NACA cowling, first flight in September
1938. And the MS.330 was a modified MS.230 with an enclosed Salmson engine and
a modified wing. No photos and just this brief description in "Flugzeuge von A - Z",
but besides the cowling there don't seem to have been many differences to the
older type.
Sorry, just found it when you've mentioned the MS.330. 
And I can't believe in Moranes designation system any more ... !  :-[

About the MS.122 I've still yet found nothing, the MS.221 to 224 are said to heve been
derivatives of the MS.121, but all were sinle seat fighters.
And about the MS.260 I have the same information as you.
What I'm still looking for are three unbuilt versions of the MS.470 to 479 Vanneau series:
The MS.471, powered by a Renault 6Q, the MS.473 with a Hispano Suiza 12X
and the MS.487 with an Isotta Fraschini  Delta.
To my opinion, the Vanneau was an an underestimated aircraft of it's days. It flew with
engines from 240hp to 820hp, in itself a proof of quite a good design. It didn't serve just
as a trainer, in the 475 version even for carrier opereations, but as a light attacker as
well. Numerous books about the NA Texan/Harvard were written, but about the Vanneau ? 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2006, 06:56:49 am »
Dear Jemiba,

by the way, the Morane-Saulnier MS.222 and MS.223 were involve in
1928 C1 programme with Gourdou-Leseurre GL-410 and GL-450 and
Wibault Wib-210 and Wib-270 (project).
do you know the Morane-Saulnier MS.382 Tornado fighter and
MS.60 a licence built De Havilland DH-60 Moth ?.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #6 on: September 26, 2006, 02:56:11 am »
Hello ,
Still yet Iíve didnít find anything about the MS.382, bit will have a look again, as Iíve
learned, that maybe not the last, but the first digit of the designation number were
changed .And about the MS.60 Iíve found several sites mentioning it, mainly about the
Spanish civil war, but just one picture on
http://www.zi.ku.dk/personal/drnash/model/spain/might.html.
Well, it looks like  Ö a dH.60 Moth !      :D
Do you know, if any MS.60 were still alive after WW II ?   
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Maveric

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #7 on: April 03, 2010, 04:11:15 am »
...not obscure, I believe these are normal projects. Obscure is the M.S.420C.1 ;)
I see you on the dark side of the moon.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2010, 09:18:14 am »
from the brand new Trait d'Union Nr254 (November-December 2010), I present here a thumbnail (500-pixels wide) of the twin-boom project Morane-Saulnier MS-420.
"In 1931, this was a single-seat fighter project different from usual for this design bureau. Named MS-420, it was a twin-boom plane with a pusher engine Hispano-Suiza 12Mc of 1200hp."

Online toura

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2010, 10:02:39 am »
hi Tophe
Look at
http://aerophile.over-blog.com.un projet improbable : le morane saulnier 420 c 1
Bye

Offline Tophe

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2010, 10:09:04 am »

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2017, 07:01:20 am »
Hi

Offline blackkite

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2017, 03:42:40 pm »
Thanks gentlemen!! Excellent information as usual. :D
Justo-san, what book can I see these drawings?

http://radikal.ru/lfp/i053.radikal.ru/1211/e3/8d659b7d0f50.jpg/htm
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 05:09:35 pm by blackkite »

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #13 on: November 16, 2017, 05:18:23 am »
In my next book  ;)
"Enemy at the Gates: Panic Fighters of the Second World War"
Fonthill Media
250 pp.
Delivery September 2018

Offline blackkite

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Re: Morane-Saulnier projects
« Reply #14 on: November 16, 2017, 05:24:32 am »
Oh!!! Can't wait. :D