Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III

[GARGEAN]

https://theaviationist.com/2018/12/07/what-appears-to-be-a-fake-chinese-j-20-allegedly-spotted-at-u-s-base/?fbclid=IwAR3BmQxkh1FH4XaFdmCEz5ArmLnYnmyzjciWgQGa0JZHGR4jFkoXuAfk_qk

Khm...

[sienar]

mockup up some kind, doesnt look good enough to be a movie prop

[Grey Havoc]

Yes, a training mock-up of some type would seem to be the logical explanation.

EDIT: It looks like our own Andreas Rupprecht was called in.

Finally, we sent the photos and information to subject matter expert and author Andreas Rupprecht.

Rupprecht has authored some of the most authoritative books on Chinese military aircraft (including “Flashpoint China” and “Modern Chinese Warplanes”) and written articles for many media outlets.

This is how Andreas Rupprecht responded to our questions about what appears in the photo:

“In my honest opinion at second glance, at least in my opinion, it quickly becomes clear that this is just a model: the whole proportions do not fit, the surface looks wavy, just as if some thin material was stretched on or over a frame or at least mated in parts that do not fit correctly – especially since the J-20 has an impressive manufacturing and surface quality. Also, the engines – and the AL-31FN are very characteristic – are completely wrong: they sit too deep and do not have the typical shape of the afterburner nozzles, even more the main landing gear is not right.”

Rupprecht went on to write, “The clearest indication in my opinion however in addition to the wobbly surface is that always on the J-20 on the ground as soon as the hydraulic pressure is gone, the rudders on the tail “fall” to the inside in that most characteristic angle. And since the cockpit canopy is covered, which would be the case, this simply does not fit.

So, in essence it would be most interesting to know the true background of this “thing“, who made it for what purpose and why does it stand at this location, but it’s surely not a real J-20.”

Author, analyst and subject matter expert Andreas Rupprecht is convinced this is not a real J-20. His analysis makes sense since getting a J-20 to the United States without other images appearing would be extremely difficult. Even more significant, why would a new Chinese combat aircraft be in the United States at all?

[Deino]

A most interesting read and brilliant summary;

https://thediplomat.com/2018/12/chinas-stealth-fighter-its-time-to-discuss-j-20s-agility/

[sferrin]

Yes, a training mock-up of some type would seem to be the logical explanation.

EDIT: It looks like our own Andreas Rupprecht was called in.

Finally, we sent the photos and information to subject matter expert and author Andreas Rupprecht.

Rupprecht has authored some of the most authoritative books on Chinese military aircraft (including “Flashpoint China” and “Modern Chinese Warplanes”) and written articles for many media outlets.

This is how Andreas Rupprecht responded to our questions about what appears in the photo:

“In my honest opinion at second glance, at least in my opinion, it quickly becomes clear that this is just a model: the whole proportions do not fit, the surface looks wavy, just as if some thin material was stretched on or over a frame or at least mated in parts that do not fit correctly – especially since the J-20 has an impressive manufacturing and surface quality. Also, the engines – and the AL-31FN are very characteristic – are completely wrong: they sit too deep and do not have the typical shape of the afterburner nozzles, even more the main landing gear is not right.”

Rupprecht went on to write, “The clearest indication in my opinion however in addition to the wobbly surface is that always on the J-20 on the ground as soon as the hydraulic pressure is gone, the rudders on the tail “fall” to the inside in that most characteristic angle. And since the cockpit canopy is covered, which would be the case, this simply does not fit.

So, in essence it would be most interesting to know the true background of this “thing“, who made it for what purpose and why does it stand at this location, but it’s surely not a real J-20.”

Author, analyst and subject matter expert Andreas Rupprecht is convinced this is not a real J-20. His analysis makes sense since getting a J-20 to the United States without other images appearing would be extremely difficult. Even more significant, why would a new Chinese combat aircraft be in the United States at all?

If it were an actual J-20 it'd be as big as Belenko's Mig-25 delivery.

[LowObservable]

If it was real it wouldn't be there. And as Andreas correctly points out, the quality isn't that good. There might be some uses for such a thing but I'm loath to speculate.

As for the Diplomat piece - congratulations on catching up with the state of the art from four years ago.

[sferrin]

If it was real it wouldn't be there.

I guess it would depend on how it got there.  Victor Belenko's Mig-25 didn't exactly land at Area 51.   As for the quality maybe it's for the inevitable Top Gun 2 direct-to-video knock off. 

[sferrin]

A most interesting read and brilliant summary;

https://thediplomat.com/2018/12/chinas-stealth-fighter-its-time-to-discuss-j-20s-agility/

Once it gets the more powerful engines with TVC. . .well, the X-31 didn't exactly want for maneuverability.

[GARGEAN]

A most interesting read and brilliant summary;

https://thediplomat.com/2018/12/chinas-stealth-fighter-its-time-to-discuss-j-20s-agility/

Eh. I have allergy on any more than short news reporting articles about military hardware in non-specialized MMs. That "RUSSIA ADMITS DEFEAT FROM F-35, SU-57 IS CANCELLED" still buggers me and I still see echoes of that in net. I bet Diplomat is somewhat better in that regard, but I still won't put my lunch money on it.

[TomcatViP]

If it was real it wouldn't be there.

As for the quality maybe it's for the inevitable Top Gun 2 direct-to-video knock off. 

If they were training some kind of sensors with AI and form recognition, they wouldn't need more quality that the sensor have. Hence tarp and frames would have done the trick. 

[Blitzo]

A most interesting read and brilliant summary;

https://thediplomat.com/2018/12/chinas-stealth-fighter-its-time-to-discuss-j-20s-agility/

Eh. I have allergy on any more than short news reporting articles about military hardware in non-specialized MMs. That "RUSSIA ADMITS DEFEAT FROM F-35, SU-57 IS CANCELLED" still buggers me and I still see echoes of that in net. I bet Diplomat is somewhat better in that regard, but I still won't put my lunch money on it.

I deliberately write my pieces on the diplomat by trying to avoid the kind of short form National Interest or Business Insider style articles they are known for.

The word limit for my monthly features is capped at 2000 unfortunately, so I'm unable to go into as much detail as I would like.

[GARGEAN]

I deliberately write my pieces on the diplomat by trying to avoid the kind of short form National Interest or Business Insider style articles they are known for.

The word limit for my monthly features is capped at 2000 unfortunately, so I'm unable to go into as much detail as I would like.

My though is that short, fact checked news are okay for most MMs, at least when they are trying to stay objective, and big pieces are better to be placed on dedicated platforms. Not sure that Diplomat fits second, albeit fast look gave me impression of far better objectivity and technical adequacy than both NI and BI. Still not really good to my taste, but indeed not bad.

[malipa]

I found this photo on airliners.net

https://www.airliners.net/photo/China-Air-Force/Chengdu-J-20/5324733

Pretty cool to see the lerx and the canards used to increase the lift of those small wings, where the lifting body is not enhanced too much. The latter probably to decrease drag and keep the flow laminar longer. Also interesting to see the opposing direction of the vortexes to ensure that no stall and control loss occurs.

[latenlazy]

I found this photo on airliners.net

https://www.airliners.net/photo/China-Air-Force/Chengdu-J-20/5324733

Pretty cool to see the lerx and the canards used to increase the lift of those small wings, where the lifting body is not enhanced too much. The latter probably to decrease drag and keep the flow laminar longer. Also interesting to see the opposing direction of the vortexes to ensure that no stall and control loss occurs.

I think lifting body contribution to overall lift might depend on the angle of attack, as shown in the pic below. The J-20’s vortex coupling method seems to work in stages, with vortex strengthening from the forebody camber being the last one. This would also seem to be consistent with the level of camber the forebody has.

[malipa]

indeed. Nice photo! I wish we could also see a speed vector and have more data than these very raw indications. @latenlazy It would also be quite logical to have such a system. Do you have more of such photos