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Author Topic: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III  (Read 33057 times)

Offline Airplane

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #135 on: December 11, 2017, 05:35:35 pm »
Awesome.

Every time I see a pic of that plane it just looks so godly oversize... Its like an f-22 went on a cycle of nandrolone and testosterone. But as I understand its that big because its an uber long range power projection tool.

Has anyone, some whiz kid, done a hypothetical rcs calculation?

Forgive a naive question, but have the chicoms ever announced the total planned buy?
« Last Edit: December 11, 2017, 05:39:20 pm by Airplane »
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Offline Blitzo

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #136 on: December 11, 2017, 10:01:56 pm »
Awesome.

Every time I see a pic of that plane it just looks so godly oversize... Its like an f-22 went on a cycle of nandrolone and testosterone. But as I understand its that big because its an uber long range power projection tool.

Considering the aircraft is basically meant to be an F-22 with longer range... it shouldn't be a surprise.

If anything, when thinking about the westpac threat environment that both sides will face and the likely dearth of air refuellers and forward air bases, imo it is the F-22 which looks small and under sized for that area of operation rather than J-20 as over sized.



Quote
Has anyone, some whiz kid, done a hypothetical rcs calculation?

Depends on what your opinion of Carlo Kopp is.


Quote
Forgive a naive question, but have the chicoms ever announced the total planned buy?

Nope. if they did that would be an exception to the rule.

Offline Blitzo

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #137 on: December 12, 2017, 05:18:28 pm »
Awesome.

Every time I see a pic of that plane it just looks so godly oversize... Its like an f-22 went on a cycle of nandrolone and testosterone. But as I understand its that big because its an uber long range power projection tool.

Considering the aircraft is basically meant to be an F-22 with longer range... it shouldn't be a surprise.

If anything, when thinking about the westpac threat environment that both sides will face and the likely dearth of air refuellers and forward air bases, imo it is the F-22 which looks small and under sized for that area of operation rather than J-20 as over sized.

The F-22 was designed for the NATO theater which is much smaller.  A shame they could never get four tanks working on the F-22.  FB-22-1 below would have been more useful for the Pacific theater.

Four EFTs would be helpful in enhancing ferry range to theatre, but I'm not sure about operating in theatre with EFTs during combat missions for a stealth aircraft.

J-20 can carry four EFTs and I would be surprised if it ever carries them outside of Chinese airspace defended by IADS during a high end conflict.


In any case, I think between the YF-22 and YF-23, the latter's greater size and longer range would've made it more suitable for the pacific theatre that we see now.
The J-20 IMO is very much the result of an aircraft that wants to be able to compete with F-22 as close as it can get in certain performance parameters while exceeding it in endurance and range.

Offline Deino

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #138 on: December 13, 2017, 08:22:16 am »
Off-topic posts deleted ... X-44, FB-22 and PCA are all irrelevant to the J-20.

Stay on topic please.

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Offline Triton

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #139 on: February 12, 2018, 02:06:52 pm »
"China appears to have rushed its J-20 stealth fighter into service with an 'embarrassing' flaw"
by Alex Lockie

February 12, 2018

Source:
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-j-20-stealth-jet-fighter-rushed-embarrassing-flaw-2018-2

Offline sferrin

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #140 on: February 12, 2018, 02:45:39 pm »
As soon as they fix the engine they're back in business.  Even with the original engines they'll still be a headache for the West.

(Nice turn there at 0:24)

« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:50:40 pm by sferrin »
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Online SpudmanWP

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #141 on: February 12, 2018, 02:54:37 pm »
That all depends on it the "stealth" is any good, how good the LPI modes of the radar are, and how well the electronics can stay EMCON (ie don't leak).
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Offline sferrin

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #142 on: February 12, 2018, 03:05:33 pm »
That all depends on it the "stealth" is any good, how good the LPI modes of the radar are, and how well the electronics can stay EMCON (ie don't leak).

Yes, but I can't imagine it's not better than the Su-35. 
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline sferrin

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #143 on: February 12, 2018, 04:45:48 pm »
More pics.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 05:45:55 pm by sferrin »
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Offline duker

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #144 on: February 13, 2018, 03:08:08 pm »
Could be  those looking for the antecedents to the J-20 should be looking in Moscow not  Fort Worth

As this article  which  is quoting long time British  expert Jim Smith and is  in Hushkit shows this comparison with the MiG  1.44 tactical fighter design of the 1990s. It first flew in 2000.

"The theory goes that China bought research data and possibly worked with MiG to create the J-20."

https://hushkit.files.wordpress.com/2018/01/j-20-mig-144.jpg?w=830

Of course the forward fuselage is  completely different
"The J-20 uses the Lockheed Martin model for reduced radar conspicuity. The Raptor-like forward fuselage, angle alignment and F-35-style inlets are a far cry from the squashed forward fuselage and underslung box intake arrangement of the MiG....... Not everything can be judged from the outline of an aircraft, and is possible that much in the way of internal structure or materials was directly informed by the Russian aircraft."

The rest of the article here
https://hushkit.net/2018/01/03/ask-the-expert-what-does-the-j-20s-configuration-reveal/


Offline sferrin

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #145 on: February 13, 2018, 04:19:12 pm »
LM for the tech and shaping, Russia for the overall design.  (Yes, yes, China has competent engineers.)
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Offline Ainen

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #146 on: February 13, 2018, 04:32:12 pm »
...
J-20 can carry four EFTs and I would be surprised if it ever carries them outside of Chinese airspace defended by IADS during a high end conflict.


In any case, I think between the YF-22 and YF-23, the latter's greater size and longer range would've made it more suitable for the pacific theatre that we see now.
...
To be fair, I am not even sure if unrefueled range of J-20 is that large to call it especially long-legged, heavy usage of EFTs for clearly non-frontline configuration sujests it can be actually not that large.
Otherwise, why so many? Addition of this capability doesn't come for free.


The further, the more it seems what J-20 is quite pure air superiority bird with only secondary a2g or anything else.

Offline duker

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #147 on: February 13, 2018, 06:13:16 pm »
Smith thinks the particular configuration - the delta- allows more fuel and a  broad  under fuselage  gives  a longer weapons bay.

  And looking at the Chinese  strategic outlook anti ship missiles are going to go hand in hand with long range  or if you are  thinking of  anti air weapons, then long range missiles against  AWACS or tankers come into the picture.

Offline litzj

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #148 on: February 13, 2018, 08:45:09 pm »
Chinise are already familiar with canard delta configuration

because of j10. j20 seems like twin stealth ver. of j10 to me.

base of j10 is LAVI not mig 1.44.

my speculation is not official.

Offline duker

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Re: Chengdu J-20 news, pictures, analysis Part III
« Reply #149 on: February 13, 2018, 10:10:14 pm »
So completely different in scale to  J-10.

Historically China  has a culture of  copying other designs ( yet likely their engineers are just as competant as other countries, maybe just to  hurry  development along which happened with the  MDD F18 versions).
Best example is the  JF-17 which can be traced back via earlier version to the Mig -21. And even then they had help from Grumman for the modifications to move  inlet from nose to wing roots