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Author Topic: Space X Interplanetary Transport System  (Read 29407 times)

Offline Byeman

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #120 on: October 05, 2017, 10:29:44 am »
They've LANDED 16 boosters, some of them on a friggin' floating tennis court.  If someone had suggested ten years ago he'd pull that off they'd have been poo-pooing it much like you are now.

Landing the boosters isn't the challenge.  Anybody wanting to waste propellant could have done it. 

So why haven't they then?

What's the point?  16 landed boosters did not lead to 16 reused boosters. 
Also, they didn't want to redesign their vehicles.

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #121 on: October 05, 2017, 11:14:07 am »
The next launch feature third re-flight of a Falcon 9 first stage
That's "B1031.2" is upgraded Block 4
a  transition between design of Block 3 toward the one of Block 5.
like the use of titanium grid fins replacing the Aluminum ones of Block 3.
Block 5 feature 100 design changes and modifications on first stage

SpaceX aims to fly the first stage 10 times with only inspections in between, and up to 100 times with refurbishment.

First Block 5 launch is expected for February 2018

Two other first stages B1023 and B1025 are refurbishment for Falcon Heavy maiden launch.
expected for November 2017
I love Strange Technology

Offline sferrin

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #122 on: October 05, 2017, 11:39:57 am »
They've LANDED 16 boosters, some of them on a friggin' floating tennis court.  If someone had suggested ten years ago he'd pull that off they'd have been poo-pooing it much like you are now.

Landing the boosters isn't the challenge.  Anybody wanting to waste propellant could have done it. 

So why haven't they then?

What's the point?  16 landed boosters did not lead to 16 reused boosters. 

You do realize that now they'll be able to reuse boosters in the future right?  (And have already reused at least one.)

Also, they didn't want to redesign their vehicles.

That's gonna suck when they go out of the launch business.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Byeman

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #123 on: October 07, 2017, 03:40:29 pm »

That's gonna suck when they go out of the launch business.

unqualified statement

Offline Byeman

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #124 on: October 07, 2017, 03:41:19 pm »
You do realize that now they'll be able to reuse boosters in the future right?  (And have already reused at least one.)

The number of times is unknown

Offline fredymac

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #125 on: October 07, 2017, 04:45:18 pm »
Both Musk and Bezos have stated they are aiming to re-use their boosters up to 100 times.  Presumably their engineering staff have not advised them this is impossible.   They will do this cautiously to avoid business risk but boosters flying a 3rd time and then 4th and so on will likely occur within 2 years.

No other technology or manufacturing process will have even a remotely similar impact on cost reduction.  Nobody is going to build a brand new booster for less cost than a used booster on its' 2nd flight let alone its' 10th.

Offline Byeman

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #126 on: October 08, 2017, 12:54:45 pm »
Both Musk and Bezos have stated they are aiming to re-use their boosters up to 100 times.  Presumably their engineering staff have not advised them this is impossible.   

nobody says no to them

Offline Byeman

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #127 on: October 08, 2017, 12:57:33 pm »

No other technology or manufacturing process will have even a remotely similar impact on cost reduction.

Spacex use of fresh out engineers with greater than 50 hr work weeks  and certain vehicle design traits has had such impact even before reusability was incorporated

Offline Triton

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #128 on: October 08, 2017, 01:38:53 pm »
"Against Mars-a-Lago: Why SpaceX’s Mars colonization plan should terrify you"
by Keith A. Spencer
10.08.2017•8:00 AM

Source:
https://www.salon.com/2017/10/08/against-mars-a-lago-why-spacexs-mars-colonization-plan-should-terrify-you/

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #129 on: October 09, 2017, 01:18:33 am »
You do realize that now they'll be able to reuse boosters in the future right?  (And have already reused at least one.)

The number of times is unknown

the members of nasaspaceflight.com keep a pretty good list of Falcon 9 stages, including which ones are reused and which ones have been scrapped.

Offline fredymac

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #130 on: October 09, 2017, 01:25:20 am »

nobody says no to them

Well here is your chance to explain why it is impossible although I would think ULA and Ariane would already be out there making this case if they thought so too.

Offline fredymac

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #131 on: October 09, 2017, 01:37:39 am »

Spacex use of fresh out engineers with greater than 50 hr work weeks  and certain vehicle design traits has had such impact even before reusability was incorporated

Odd, my recollections are that vertical integration, automotive build practices along with lots of sensors and big data analytics were key.  Engineers at ULA and Ariane must dread their upcoming 50 hour weeks given their new boosters are tagged to be cost competitive to pre-reusable Spacex pricing.

I'll have to get my victim card as a lifelong member of the "exempt employee" class.  I have never built any rockets but I have definitely had long stretches of uncompensated overtime.

Offline sferrin

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #132 on: October 09, 2017, 04:06:47 am »
I'll have to get my victim card as a lifelong member of the "exempt employee" class.  I have never built any rockets but I have definitely had long stretches of uncompensated overtime.

Hear, hear.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Byeman

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #133 on: October 09, 2017, 06:09:20 pm »
automotive build practices along with lots of sensors and big data analytics were key. 

They don't have lots of sensors.  That was a problem in their accident reconstructions.  What big data analytics?   And what automotive build practices?

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Space X Interplanetary Transport System
« Reply #134 on: October 09, 2017, 11:59:23 pm »
IIRC the Falcon contains ~20,000 sensors. The problem with their last failure was not all of them were on and being recorded.