Register here

Author Topic: Dutch Aircraft Designations  (Read 9450 times)

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2048
Dutch Aircraft Designations
« on: November 12, 2015, 04:26:22 pm »
Dutch Designations - Small Designers/Companies

I've made lists of the smaller Dutch makers which I've decided to group together. Included will be: Joop Carley/NVI/VIH, Pander, Trompenburg/Spyker, Van Berkel, and Walraven.

(Mods: If this is seen as inappropriate, feel free to break up these lists.)

As always, additions and corrections are most welcome.

________________________

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2048
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2015, 04:32:59 pm »
Dutch Designations - Joop Carley Aircraft

There are huge gaps in the Carley designation list. The two 'Enten' canard aircraft constructed around 1917 don't appear to have been assigned designations at all. So, Carley's designations begin with the Carley S.1. In this case, the prefix letter is for designer Theo Slot. This is followed by Carley's own L.II (or L-II) design. Note the shift from Arabic to Roman numerals.

There is no sign of unbuilt Carley projects between the C.III trainer and the C.12 light aircraft. Again, note the change in numeral style (this time, from from Roman back to Arabic). I am not aware of any numerical designation for Carley's Werkspoor Jumbo.

And what of the Carley Baby? Some sources list the Baby as the Carley 'C2' but the C.II was a biplane. Was the Carley Baby the same as the S.1? Or was it actually the C.12? Or is the Baby a completely separate Carley design only conceptually connected with the others? Can anyone help with this?
____________________________________

Aircraft Designs of Joop D. Carley

Joop Carley Aircraft Designations

Carley Flying School (Vliegvereniging), Ede, 1917

Carley 'Ente' - 191[?]-1917 flying school canard a/c, x 2
 -- 191[?] Ente: [??]
 -- 1917 Ente: Single-bay biplane, pylon-mounted upper wing
 -- http://www.earlyaeroplanes.com/br.challenge/aircraft/ersatz/854_Joop.Carley.Canard.no.2-1917.jpg

Carley S.1 - 1919 single-engine low-winged monoplane light a/c
 - S.1: Displayed at Amsterdam 1919 ELTA , 1 x 50 hp Gnôme rotary

Nationale Vliegtuig Industrie (NVI) - 1922

Carley L.II - 1922 2-seat single-bay biplane trainer
 - L.II: Side-by-side seating school a/c, 1 x rotary
 -- http://images.memorix.nl/nda/thumb/620x620/3d67ca5e-77df-82b0-1666-73a41d092776.jpg

Carley Carley Baby - 1922 single-seat shoulder-winged monoplane
 - Aka 'Carly-baby'; aka 'Baby'; aka 'baby-machines'
 -- http://home.kpn.nl/frans.gordijn/images/121.jpg

NV Nationale Vliegtuig Industrie (NVI)

Carley C.I - [?? Poss. ref. to redesig. S.1 ??]
 -- http://home.kpn.nl/frans.gordijn/wh12.htm
 -- NB: Kees van Dongen lists design as 'C1'

Carley C.II - 1922 redesig. Carley L.11 biplane trainer, x 1

Carley C.III - 1922 single-engined side-by-side biplane trainer
 - C.III: Intended as LVA Spyker V.2 trainer replacement*
 -- LVA chose the Fokker S.2 over C.III, Carley leaves NVI
 -- http://images.memorix.nl/nda/thumb/620x620/3dda0db3-fa8b-ed72-baef-f065426b1f9c.jpg

Vliegtuig Industrie Holland (VIH) - 1923-1924
 - As Carley's Aeroplanes Co.

Carley C.12 - 1923 single-seat shoulder-winged monoplane
 - C.12: aka 'vliegfiets', 3-longeron fuselage, span 7.50 m
 -- C.12 had 1 x 10 hp, 74 cid, Indian Chief air-cooled V-2
 - C.12 : Re-eng. 16 hp Sergant A air-cooled upright L-4
 -- Sole C.12, H-NACB, suffered accident, reg. cancelled
 - C.12a: Oct 1923, re-eng. 20 hp Anzani 3-cyl inverted-Y
 -- C.12a reg. H-NACI [due to major component replacement?]
 -- 3V http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/FT/FT1923/11/727-2.jpg
 -- NB: Flight 3-view config. before faired headrest fitted
 -- http://www.nederlandseluchtvaart.nl/forums/showthread.php?t=34019

Vliegtuig Industrie Holland (VIH) - 1923-1924

Holland H.1 - 1923 2-seat biplane (part designed by Carley)
 - H.1: Tandem seat, 35 hp Anzani 3-cyl, span 8.00 m*
 -- * Lower wings had longer span, Warren truss bracing
 -- http://neon.pictura-hosting.nl/sfa/sfa_mrx_bld/thumbs/500x500/upload/upload_669SFA022811919.jpg

Holland H.2: July 1924 C.12a devel., 1 x 25 hp Anzani
 - H.2: Shallower, rounded fuselage; re-shaped fin
 -- Holland H.2 aka 'Holland-kindje' (Holland Baby)
 -- H.2 developed by Theo Slot and H. Van der Kwast, x 1
 -- http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft33512.htm

Pander D - Nov 1924 C.12a/H.2 evol., span 8.00 m, x 10
 - Pander D: Shallower, rounded fuselage; re-shaped fin
 -- https://modelbrouwers.nl/media/albums/592/7418/pander%2022122012%20%285%29.jpg

Werkspoor N.V., Amsterdam - 1929-31

Werkspoor Jumbo - 1931 biplane freighter, span: 19.00 m, x 1
 - Jumbo: 1 x uncowled 480 hp Gnome-Rhône 9A Jupiter radial
 - Jumbo oper. 2 years as KLM freighter, then as trainer*
 -- * PH-AFI dest. by German bombing, Schiphol, 10 May 1940
 -- https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb6/6a/Werkspoor_Jumbo_%281933%29_%283%29.jpg/800px-Werkspoor_Jumbo_%281933%29_%283%29.jpg
 -- https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Werkspoor_Jumbo_%281933%29_%282%29.jpg

Koolhoven - 1930 [??]

'Staartloze vliegtuig' - [Project] 1930 tailless aircraft
 - Staartloze vliegtuig: Design supervised by FW Koolhoven
 -- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,18427.0.html

__________________________________________________________
« Last Edit: May 23, 2016, 11:25:51 am by Apophenia »

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2048
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2015, 04:36:40 pm »
Dutch Designations - Henk Pander & Sons Aircraft

Nederlandse Fabriek van Vliegtuigen H. Pander & Zonen (Pander & Sons)

The doesn't seem to be any real pattern with Pander designations. The start with Types D and E ... but there's no sign of Types A-through-C.

Type letters (eg: Pander E) sometimes followed by a second letter indicating engine type installed (sometimes with numerals indicating horsepower added) - eg: Pander EC (or EC-60) had a Walter NZ60 engine; EG (or EG-100) had a de Havilland Gypsy I.

Designations could be modified to match engine changes - eg: Pander EC-60 H-NAEJ later became an EK-80. Alas, I do not know the engine types for the EH-120 or EK-80 variants. Flight mentions a Siemens-Halske. Can anyone help with those?

To add further confusion, construction order numbers are sometimes applied to Pander types. So, 'Pander D 13' is the thirteenth Pander Type D built (c/n 52, H-NACS).

Then, the designation style switches to 'P' (for Pander?) followed by type numbers for three designs. These designations are rendered without a space, with a hyphen, or, ocassionally, with a period between 'P' and numeral.

The P-1, P-2, and P-3 are followed by the Multipro for which no designation seems to have been recorded. Then, the designation style switches again - this time, to a prefix letter based on the designer's name ('S' for Theo E Slot). The S-4 Postjager was Pander's last powered aircraft design.

Listed at the bottom are three glider designs licensed by Pander - two one-offs and the series-built SG-38. Many sources list the one-offs as though their Dutch registrations were also their designations. There is no evidence for this usage.

_____________________________________________

H. Pander & Zonen Aircraft Designations

Pander D - 1924 Carley C.12a/VIH H-2 evol., x 11
 - Pander D: Single-seat, shoulder-wing monoplane
 - Pander D - 25 hp Anzani* inverted-Y engine, x 9
 - Pander D: 1st prototype, first flew 16 Nov 1924
 - Pander D: Prod'n, 2 x MLA, 2 x LA-KNIL (East Indies)
 -- MLA Pander Ds P-1 & P-2; LA-KNIL Ds P-501 & P-502
 -- * 1 x French-reg D re-eng with 45 hp Anzani

Pander DB - 1 x 36 hp Bristol Cherub 2-cyl HO, x 1
 - Pander DB: One built, c/n 21/III, H-NADL/PH-ADL

Pander DF-1 = 1 x 40 hp* ABC Scorpion 2-cyl HO, x 1
 - Pander DF-1 c/n 20 H-NAEQ/PH-AEQ, aka 'DF.I
 -- * Scorpion II nominal power is listed as 34 hp
 -- 3v: http://www.airwar.ru/image/idop/law1/panderd/panderd-1.gif

Pander E - 1926 2-seat sesquiplane trainer/sports a/c
 - Pander E : Prototype, 1 x 45 hp 6-cyl Anzani radial*
 -- * Some source list as 'Pander EA' (for 'Anzani')
 - Pander EC: Walter-engined variants, EC-60 & EC-100
 -- https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Pander_Ea.png
 -- Pander E 3v http://aviadejavu.ru/Images6/FT/FT1926/04/226-1.jpg
 - Pander EF: 80 hp or 85 hp Armstrong Siddeley Genet II
 -- Eg: EF 80 c/n 38 (PH-AFX);
 -- Eg: EF-85 c/n 27 (PH-AKA), 31 (PH-AFZ), 39 (PH-AIA), c/n 40 (PH-AIB)
 - Pander EG: 1 x DH Gypsy I, c/n 31 (PH-AFM), 35 (PH-AFN)
 -- http://digitalcollections.nypl.org/items/510d47da-9067-a3d9-e040-e00a18064a99
 - Pander EH: [?? Siemens-Halske Sh 12-powered ??]*
 -- Eg: EH-120 c/n 36 (PH-AFP, later PH-AIT)
 -- * Flight 07 Mar 1929 pg 129 mentions Siemens-Halske  -- https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1929/1929%20-%200480.html
 - Pander EK: [??] engine type unknown
 -- Eg: EK-80 c/n 24 (PH-AEJ), EK-80 c/n 47 (PH-AJB)
 -- NB: 'EK-85' is probably a typo for EC-85

Pander P-1 - 1929 2-seat tandem parasol-wing sports a/c, x 1
 - P-1: 1 x 100 hp DH Gipsy I, span 10.34 m, c/n 28, PH-AGM
 -- aka P1, 'Pander-Gipsy', 'Gypsy Pander' (sic), 'Supersport'

Pander P-2 - 1929 2-seat tandem parasol-wing sports a/c, x 1
 - P-2: 1 x 100 hp DH Gipsy I, span 10.34 m, c/n 29, PH-AGN
 -- http://www.airteamimages.com/pics/69/69953_800.jpg

Pander P-3 - 1932 2-seat tandem parasol-wing sports a/c, x 1
 - P-3: 1 x 120 hp DH Gipsy III, span 9.40 m, c/n 41, PH-AIK
 -- Built for Mijnheer ten Bos (or 'ter Bos' or 'Ten Bosch')
 -- P-3 later modified to have an enclosed cabin

Multipro - 1932 2-3 seat high-winged cabin monoplane, x 3*
 - Multipro: 1 x 85 hp Pobjoy R 7-cyl radial, span 7.80 m
 -- Designed by Theo Slot, no desig. known for Multipro
 -- * Multipro c/n 42 PH-AIU, c/n 43 PH-AIV, c/n 44 PH-AIX
 -- http://1000aircraftphotos.com/Contributions/Visschedijk/8391.htm
 -- https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1932/1932%20-%201018.html

Pander S.4 - Postjager 1933 3-seat, 3-engined mailplane
 - S.4: Fabric-covered wooden construction, span 16 m
 -- aka Panderjager, 3 x 420 hp Wright Whirlwind R-975-E
 -- 'S' for designer Theo E Slot, c/n 46, PH-OST

________________________________________

Pander-built Gliders [ zweefvliegtuig ]

[Note: PH-xx was standard registration for Dutch gliders not a Pander designation]

Pander Zögling - 1930 single-seat basic training glider, x 1
 - Zögling: Licensed RRG Zögling 32 (Stamer & Lippische Z-12)
 - Zögling: PH-1 flown June 1930, leading edge slots 1932
 -- Zögling (Pupil) by Alexander Lippisch, span 10.04 m
 -- http://www.aviodrome.nl/themapark/expositie/collectie-overzicht/M-W.asp

Pander Mayer - 1930 single-seat parasol training glider
 - Mayer: Hermann Mayer M 1* copy for ENZC club, x 1**
 -- * 1929 orig. by Luftfahrt-Vereins Aachen, span 14.52 m
 -- ** Pander c/n 34, registered PH-2, aka 'PH.2 Mayer'

Pander SG-38 - 1940 single-seat basic training glider
 - SG-38: Licenced Schneider DFS 108-14 Schulgleiter
 -- 555 SG-38 built by Pander for NSFK, span 10.41 m
 -- http://www.abpic.co.uk/photo/1093296/

________________________________________

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2048
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2015, 04:39:42 pm »
Dutch Designations - Trompenburg/Spyker Aircraft

NV Automobiel- en Vliegtuigenfabriek Trompenburg ('Spyker')

Under its Spyker [1] brand name, Amsterdam-based automaker Trompenburg designed and built aircraft from 1914 to 1926. In 1915, the business was expanded by merging with Soesterberg-based NV Nederlandse Vliegtuigenfabriek  [2] and its owner/designer, Henri Wijnmalen. [3] The rational was that Nederlandse Vliegtuigenfabriek was too close to the German border and that Spyker had available floor space

Between 1914 and 1918, Automobiel- en Vliegtuigenfabriek Trompenburg produced almost 100 combat aircraft and 200 aero engines. Aircraft production ceased in 1919 and the firm became officially bankrupt in 1926.

Trompenburg/Spyker licensed aircraft followed the pattern of designation used by their originators. So, the Trompenburg-Farman HF-22 simply took the Henri Farman designation for its Gnome Lambda-powered pusher design.

Original Trompenburg/Spyker designs were marketed as Spykers. Each type was sequentially numbered with a 'V' prefix'. The V.1 was partly designed by a French engineer, HA Vannehard, but I am presuming that the 'V' designation simply refers to 'Vliegtuig' or Aircraft.

______________________________


[1] Some sources continued to use the pre-1903 spelling, 'Spijker'.

[2] Sometimes rendered as NV Nederlandse Vliegtuigen Fabriek.

[3] The Soesterberg factory had been producing Bleriots and Farmans.

______________________________

Trompenburg/Spyker Aircraft without Distinct Local Designations

HF-22 - 1916, twin-boom, pusher* recce twin-bay biplane, span 15.00 m
 - HF-22: Licensed-built Henri Farman HF-22 twin-boomer a/c
 -- * 1 x 80 hp Gnome Lambda or 1 x 80 hp Thulin A (Le Rhône copy)
 -- 11 x HF-22 for Luchtvaartafdeling (LVA), 3 x HF-22 for MLD
 -- aka Trompenburg/Farman HF-22
 -- http://www.aviationmuseum.eu/images/Netherlands/MLM/Farman_HF-22_LA-2.JPG

Nie 11 C1 - 1917, single-seat biplane fighter, span 7.55 m
 - Nie 11 C1: Licensed-built* licenced Nieuport 11 C1 BB deriv.
 -- Nie 11 C1: 1 x 80 hp Thulin A (subst'd for Le Rhône 9C)
 - aka Spijker-Nieuport, sometimes used to distinguish from sole impressed Bébé
 -- * Trompenburg may have just copied impressed 11 C1, LA40

______________________________

Trompenburg's Spyker types

All original Spyker designs followed the same pattern - tractor biplanes with unstaggered wings. The 'V' designations presumably spring from HA Vannehard, the original engineer. But Monsieur Vannehard (who went to work for Joop Carley when Trompenburg failed) is only strongly associated with the V.1.

Spyker V.1 - 1916 single-seat biplane fighter, 1 x prototype
 - V.1: 1 x 80 hp Thulin (le Rhône) rotary, streamlined cowling
 -- Designed by HA Vannehard and AG von Baumhauer, w/o 1920
 -- http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft29127.htm

Spyker V.2 - 1917 2-seat twin-bay biplane trainer, span 10.85m
 - V.2: 1 x 80 hp Thulin (le Rhône) rotary, horseshoe cowling
 -- 20 V.2s served between 1918-1924, up to 56 possibly built
 -- http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft25692.htm

Spyker V.3 - 1918 single-seat single-bay biplane fighter,* x 1
 - V.3: 1 x Spyker-Clerget** rotary, span 8.19m, 2 x 7.92mm MGs
 -- http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft25693.htm
 -- 3v: http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/Fighters/545-4.jpg
 -- * Flight (28 Aug 1919) says monocoque fuselage sporting biplane
 -- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1919/1919%20-%201154.html
 -- ** Flight lists 130 hp Spyker-Clerget 9, Jane's 1919 claims 135 hp
 -- LVA ordered either 72 or 98 Spyker V.3s (sources vary)

Spyker V.4 - [Project] 1918 single-bay biplane patrol a/c ('verkenner')
 - Spyker V.4: 118 ordered for LA, cancelled, none built*
 -- * Instead, the LVA received 40 Rumpler C.VIIIs in 1918
 -- 3v: http://flyingmachines.ru/Images7/04-Others/Janes/ST_V4-p.jpg

____________________________________

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2048
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2015, 04:41:34 pm »
Dutch Designations - Van Berkel's Patent Aircraft

The full name of Van Berkel or Van Berkel's Patent was NV Maatschappij tot vervaardiging van snijmachines volgens Van Berkel's Patent en van andere Werktuigen (SA Society for the manufacture of cutting tools, according to Van Berkel's Patent and other Instruments). Quite a mouthful!

Known for making precision scales and meat slicers, Van Berkel set up its aeronautical division specifically to make the WA float-fighter. Other designs followed but Van Berkel's aircraft division closed in 1921 due to further orders failing to materialize.

Van Berkel Aircraft Designations

The designation WA is often said to in honour of WA (Wilhelmus Adrianus) Van Berkel. More likely, WA stood for Watervliegtuig A (Seaplane, 1st Type). That would better explain the follow-on types designated WB, WC, etc. Some sources render Van Berkel designations with hyphens (eg: W-A, W-B).

_____________

Van Berkel's Patent Aircraft Designations

Van Berkel WA - 1919 Hansa-Brandenburg W.12 floatplane,* x 35 built
 -- * MLD a/c Van Berkel wood floats; NEI a/c Dornier aluminum floats
 - Van Berkel WA: (As planned) Locally-assembled HS.8, not deliv'd
 - Van Berkel WA: (As built) 160 hp Mercedes D.III** substituted
 -- ** Some sources say the engine was a 160 hp Benz Bz.III
 -- NB: 5 x W.12s built by MLD assumed to have WA components

Van Berkel WB - 1920 2-seat floatplane scout, span: 20 m, x 7
 -  WB: Hansa-Brandenburg W.29-based,* 1 x 360 hp RR Eagle VIII
 -- * Enlarged W.29 design by ir. Albert Gillis von Baumhauer*
 -- * Von Baumhauer killed 18 March 1939 in Boeing 307 crash

Van Berkel WC - [??] presumably an unbuilt project
 -- WC: poss. desig. reserved for licenced Dornier G I

Van Berkel WD - [Project] civilian version of WA, unbuilt
 - WD: Presumably 'limousine' derivative of biplane WA

Van Berkel WE - [Project] 3-engined flying boat, unbuilt

Van Berkel WF - [Project] civilian version of WB, unbuilt
 - WF: Presumably 'limousine' derivative of monoplane WB

_________________________

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2048
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2015, 04:44:31 pm »
Aircraft Designs of Laurens Walter Walraven

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=13787.0

____________________________________

Avro 504K - Locally-improved 504K variant for LA-KNIL*
 - Improved 504K: Plywood-covered fuselage, revised fuel tank
 - * LVA 504Ks got AS Mongoose in 1931, LA-KNIL upgrades may have been similar
 -- NB: LA-KNIL Technische Dienst Avro 504K prod. 1927, 12 bought 1918, more 1922

LA-KNIL DH-9s - licenced NEI-produced Airco DH-9
 - Nature of 'improvements' unknown

PW Designation - LA-KNIL Technische Dienst - Bandoeng

Pattist-Walraven PW-1 - 1933 2-seat mid-wing monoplane light a/c
 - PW-1: Nov 1933, 1 x 85 hp 7-cyl Pobjoy R pusher, span [?? m]
 - PW-1: LA-KNIL staff design by Walraven & Kapitein MP Pattist*
 -- Flown 23 Nov 1933, c/n I-1, reg. PK-SAM, w/o Bandoeng 1935
 -- http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1934/1934%20-%200592.html
 -- * Maurits Pieter Pattist, often misspelled as 'MV Pattist'

W Series Designations - Walraven Industrie - Bandoeng

Walraven W.2 - 1934 low-winged twin-engined, 2-seat cabin a/c
 - W.2: 2 x 90 hp 7-cyl Pobjoy Niagara, Span 11 m
 -- W.2 c/n 2 PK-KKH, flown Jan 1935, destroyed Feb 1942
 -- Wooden constr'n, spruce formers with plywood covering
 -- W.2 prod'n planned, thwarted by accidental death of Khouw*
 -- * Millionair W.2 owner, Khouw Khe Hien (aka Xu Qixing)
 -- Het Nieuws van den Dag, 29 Jan 1935, pg10
 -- http://resources2.kb.nl/010230000/pdf/DDD_010230315.pdf
 -- https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1935/1935%20-%200444.html

Walraven W.3 - [Project] 1935 4-seat* KLM** 'lucht-taxi'
 - W.3: Lengthened cabin W.2, primarily Indonesian wood const.
 - W.3: 2 x 135 hp (poss. Walter Minors, poss. as pushers)
 -- W.3 was never built but registration PH-TOP was assigned
 -- * Seating confirmed, Utrechts Nieuwsblad No 98, 24 Aug 1935
 -- ** Design inst. by KLM's Albert Plesman (favouring pusher)
 -- Herman Dekker: http://www.hdekker.info/registermap/TWEEDE.htm

Walraven W.4 - 1938 2-seat tandem light sports monoplane, x 2
 - W.4: 1 x 65 hp Walter Mikron, span 10.67m
 -- c/n W.4-1 (PK-SAU) and W4-2 (PK-SAI) w/o 11 Dec 1939
 -- W.4 designed for Nederlands-Indische Vliegclub, Bandoeng

Walraven W.5 - [Project] 1942 twin-boom pusher, span 11.25m
 - W.5: W.1 deriv., designed in Japanese internment camp
 - W.5 'Sport Type' : Sportplane, 1 x 90 hp engine
 - W.5 'Travel Type': Liaison/airtaxi, 1 x 120 hp engine
 -- http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13787.msg182157.html#msg182157

_________________________________________

Offline Cy-27

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 511
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2015, 01:48:14 pm »
As usual, excellent work by Apophenia .

A couple of 1930's designs by J.W.H. 'Hugo' Lambach:

Lambach HL.I
Designed by Hugo Lambach in 1931 for Delftsche Studenten Aeroclub (DSA). A low-wing two seat monoplane with long fixed landing gear. First example registered, aptly, PH-DSA. Later fitted with a Curtiss-Wright Junior engine.
    1 x Pobjoy Niagara 90 hp Max Speed 140 km/h Start Weight 585 kg Span 11.2 m Length 7.7 m.

Lambach HL.II
1937 Design for a biplane trainer similar to the de Havilland Tiger Moth.
    1 x DH Gipsy 130 hp Max Speed 212 km/h Start Weight 600 kg Span 8.0 m Length 6.7 m.

Source:

De Nederlandse Vliegtuigen by Theo Wesselink and Thijs Postma (Romen Haarlem 1982) ISBN 9022837920

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22549
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2015, 03:15:18 pm »
Excellent work my dears Apophenia and Cy-27.

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2048
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2015, 11:44:02 am »
Very nice, Cy-27! Lambach Vliegtuigfabrieken would indeed qualify as a small Dutch maker  ;D

Photos of HL.I: http://home.kpn.nl/frans.gordijn/wh34.htm

According to Dutch Wikipedia, Hugo Lambach also had several unbuilt postwar projects. Anyone heard of any of these? (Hugo Lambach heeft nog verscheidene nieuwe ontwerpen getekend, echter deze zijn nooit in productie genomen.) https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Willem_Hugo_Lambach

Offline Jos Heyman

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 597
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2015, 03:27:44 pm »
Wow, nice piece of works.
Are you familiar with the book 'De Nederlandse Vliegtuigen' by Theo Wesselink and Thijs Postma (Bussum, 1982), which describes all aircraft ever built in The Netherlands. 

Online Arjen

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2187
  • It's turtles all the way down

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2048
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2015, 10:12:13 am »
Thanks for that! Glad to see Bob Noorduyn get a mention  ;)

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22549
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #12 on: October 30, 2016, 09:09:10 am »
NV Nationale Vliegtuig Industrie (NVI)

Carley C.I - [?? Poss. ref. to redesig. S.1 ??]
 -- http://home.kpn.nl/frans.gordijn/wh12.htm
 -- NB: Kees van Dongen lists design as 'C1'

And from L'Ala D'Italia;

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201924%2002.pdf

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22549
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2017, 04:51:27 am »
Hi,

does anyone hear about Carley V.1 ?.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22549
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2017, 04:33:47 am »
does anyone hear about Carley V.1 ?.

By the way,this aircraft was mentioned in; Luchtvaartkennis of 1996,but I don't know which month ?,
please  any help and thanks.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22549
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2017, 03:25:00 pm »
Hi,

does anyone hear about Carley V.1 ?.

Maybe this one ?.

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22549
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 02:09:07 pm »

Offline Jjr

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #17 on: February 07, 2019, 06:23:58 am »
Who can tell me were comes the information fram that the Carley L-II/NVI C.II was a side by side trainer?

Offline hesham

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 22549
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #18 on: February 07, 2019, 06:54:54 am »
Who can tell me were comes the information fram that the Carley L-II/NVI C.II was a side by side trainer?

Needs good search.

Offline Jjr

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #19 on: February 07, 2019, 08:27:17 am »
The C-II had the seats behind each other and the C-III was a side by side

Offline Apophenia

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 2048
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2019, 12:37:15 pm »
The C-II had the seats behind each other and the C-III was a side by side

I cannot recall where that side-by-side ref came from ... and its entirely possible that I've garbled information on the C-III with the C-II  :-[

Looking at photos on the NIMH website suggests either a tandem 2-seater - as you say - or, as in the case of the rear-view (link below), a single-seat (front cockpit only).

https://images.memorix.nl/nda/thumb/620x620/2d194d5e-f9e8-ef64-858c-b44e4a819e13.jpg

Offline Jan den Das

  • CLEARANCE: Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 249
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #21 on: February 08, 2019, 01:08:17 am »
this something

Offline Jjr

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #22 on: February 08, 2019, 01:45:36 am »
Thanks Jan
The number 39 is a fake

Offline Bazinga

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 34
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #23 on: February 08, 2019, 08:56:53 am »
1924 Vliegtuig Industrie Holland H.1 & H.2  Lightplanes (Carley company successor)
Source Flight International

Offline Jjr

  • CLEARANCE: Confidential
  • *
  • Posts: 38
  • I really should change my personal text
Re: Dutch Aircraft Designations
« Reply #24 on: February 08, 2019, 11:15:12 am »
Apophenia, I made some calculations and found that the fuselage of the C.II was 85cm wide, I think difficult for side by side