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Author Topic: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.  (Read 152208 times)

Offline sferrin

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1005 on: August 04, 2017, 07:18:05 am »
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2017/08/us-military-eyes-new-mini-nukes-21st-century-deterrence/139997/?oref=defenseone_today_nl

It is with a sad and heavy heart for me to believe nothing will ever get beyond discussions at a pro-nuke meeting held in Washington.

We really are at the point of requiring a Manhattan Project '21' a crash program to completely overhaul and modernize the nuclear enterprise as if, like in WWII, our national survival depended on it.

The problem is we have whole generations who've never experienced a real war and are completely oblivious.  They can't conceive of the US ever being attacked no matter how weak we get.  To them it's as much a fantasy as Santa Claus.  And many of them are politicians in Washington. 
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline bobbymike

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Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

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Offline bobbymike

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« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 07:08:42 pm by bobbymike »
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline kaiserd

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1008 on: August 05, 2017, 02:11:59 am »
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2017/08/us-military-eyes-new-mini-nukes-21st-century-deterrence/139997/?oref=defenseone_today_nl

It is with a sad and heavy heart for me to believe nothing will ever get beyond discussions at a pro-nuke meeting held in Washington.

We really are at the point of requiring a Manhattan Project '21' a crash program to completely overhaul and modernize the nuclear enterprise as if, like in WWII, our national survival depended on it.

The problem is we have whole generations who've never experienced a real war and are completely oblivious.  They can't conceive of the US ever being attacked no matter how weak we get.  To them it's as much a fantasy as Santa Claus.  And many of them are politicians in Washington.

And you seem wedded to the fantasy that the US is in some sense weak militarily or more narrowly from a nuclear weapon perspective. None of this is objectively remotely true.
The advocates of the necessity of nuclear weapons who see and are trying to sell the need for modernisation of the US nuclear weapon "enterprise" are not assisted (indeed are impeded) by zealots chasing fantasies of large increases in warhead and delivery system numbers and capabilities and advocating tearing up international treaties.
Zealots like you discredit the more moderate elements of those advocating the need for modernisation (just like your opposite numbers in the anti-nuclear movement are used by the likes of you to discredit strategic arms limitations and moves to reduce warhead numbers.)

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1009 on: August 05, 2017, 09:52:51 pm »
Scott and I on our last trip to Masada
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline gTg

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1010 on: August 09, 2017, 06:25:43 am »
Nothing to worry about anymore :
Quote
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
My first order as President was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before....
13:56 - 9. Aug. 2017

Offline sferrin

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1011 on: August 09, 2017, 06:52:06 am »
http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2017/08/us-military-eyes-new-mini-nukes-21st-century-deterrence/139997/?oref=defenseone_today_nl

It is with a sad and heavy heart for me to believe nothing will ever get beyond discussions at a pro-nuke meeting held in Washington.

We really are at the point of requiring a Manhattan Project '21' a crash program to completely overhaul and modernize the nuclear enterprise as if, like in WWII, our national survival depended on it.

The problem is we have whole generations who've never experienced a real war and are completely oblivious.  They can't conceive of the US ever being attacked no matter how weak we get.  To them it's as much a fantasy as Santa Claus.  And many of them are politicians in Washington.

And you seem wedded to the fantasy that the US is in some sense weak militarily or more narrowly from a nuclear weapon perspective. None of this is objectively remotely true.
The advocates of the necessity of nuclear weapons who see and are trying to sell the need for modernisation of the US nuclear weapon "enterprise" are not assisted (indeed are impeded) by zealots chasing fantasies of large increases in warhead and delivery system numbers and capabilities and advocating tearing up international treaties.
Zealots like you discredit the more moderate elements of those advocating the need for modernisation (just like your opposite numbers in the anti-nuclear movement are used by the likes of you to discredit strategic arms limitations and moves to reduce warhead numbers.)

I rest my case.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline sferrin

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1012 on: August 09, 2017, 06:53:58 am »
Nothing to worry about anymore :
Quote
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
My first order as President was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before....
13:56 - 9. Aug. 2017

Yeah, I saw that and rolled my eyes.  At BEST he has ensured the "development" programs will continue to roll along for the next four years.  In the meantime Russia, China, North Korea, and others will race ahead.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1013 on: August 09, 2017, 11:05:43 am »
Nothing to worry about anymore :
Quote
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
My first order as President was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before....
13:56 - 9. Aug. 2017

Yeah, I saw that and rolled my eyes.  At BEST he has ensured the "development" programs will continue to roll along for the next four years.  In the meantime Russia, China, North Korea, and others will race ahead.
I think it's just about time for another arsenal of democracy speech.
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline GTX

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1014 on: August 09, 2017, 11:43:12 am »
Nothing to worry about anymore :
Quote
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
My first order as President was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before....
13:56 - 9. Aug. 2017

Yeah, I saw that and rolled my eyes.  At BEST he has ensured the "development" programs will continue to roll along for the next four years.  In the meantime Russia, China, North Korea, and others will race ahead.

Are you saying El Presidente is not telling the truth... ::) ;D

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1015 on: August 09, 2017, 11:53:17 am »
Nothing to worry about anymore :
Quote
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
My first order as President was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before....
13:56 - 9. Aug. 2017

Yeah, I saw that and rolled my eyes.  At BEST he has ensured the "development" programs will continue to roll along for the next four years.  In the meantime Russia, China, North Korea, and others will race ahead.

Are you saying El Presidente is not telling the truth... ::)
I'm sure someone told him they completed a LEP on a couple of W76s and he's taking credit  ;D
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline Pioneer

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1016 on: August 10, 2017, 11:54:36 pm »
Sorry, can't help but think and reflect, that with the American self-obsession with its self-built ideology of exceptionalism, that it hasn't sawed it's own problem in regards of containing, let alone curtailing North Korea's nuclear arsenal and strategy, with their arrogant isolation and denomination of both Russia, and especially  the PRC.
It explicitly clear that the issue with Nth Korea can not and will not be fixed unless both Russia and China are behind such a measure.
So long as the U.S. sees and seems it is their righteous place to be the only World Power, then it stand too reason that Russia and China will continue to prop up Nth Korea, as a thorn in America's side. Ironically, just as Sun Tzu's Art of War dictates.

Regards
Pioneer
And remember…remember the glory is not the exhortation of war, but the exhortation of man.
Mans nobility, made transcendent in the fiery crucible of war.
Faithfulness and fortitude.
Gentleness and compassion.
I am honored to be your brother.”

— Lt Col Ralph Honner DSO M

Offline gTg

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1017 on: August 11, 2017, 02:00:23 am »
Nothing to worry about anymore :
Quote
Donald J. Trump ✔ @realDonaldTrump
My first order as President was to renovate and modernize our nuclear arsenal. It is now far stronger and more powerful than ever before....
13:56 - 9. Aug. 2017

Yeah, I saw that and rolled my eyes.  At BEST he has ensured the "development" programs will continue to roll along for the next four years.  In the meantime Russia, China, North Korea, and others will race ahead.

Are you saying El Presidente is not telling the truth... ::) ;D
That should be obvious to anybody interested in the matter.
I posted it because i think it is relevant in the discussion on renewing the US nuclear deterrent.
These statements will not help in getting the $$$ and political will to proceed with it.

I believe in deterrence and as a person living in a NATO country I'm well aware who is my nuclear deterrence sugar daddy.
So it matters to me that the US has lost it's nuclear industrial base...


Offline sferrin

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1018 on: August 11, 2017, 08:33:58 am »
Sorry, can't help but think and reflect, that with the American self-obsession with its self-built ideology of exceptionalism, that it hasn't sawed it's own problem in regards of containing, let alone curtailing North Korea's nuclear arsenal and strategy, with their arrogant isolation and denomination of both Russia, and especially  the PRC.
It explicitly clear that the issue with Nth Korea can not and will not be fixed unless both Russia and China are behind such a measure.
So long as the U.S. sees and seems it is their righteous place to be the only World Power, then it stand too reason that Russia and China will continue to prop up Nth Korea, as a thorn in America's side. Ironically, just as Sun Tzu's Art of War dictates.

Regards
Pioneer

"So long as the U.S. sees and seems it is their righteous place to be the only World Power"

Any other nation that was on top would work to STAY there.  That's just common sense.  Besides, would you really prefer China or Russia be in the US's position?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2017, 08:40:45 am by sferrin »
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Nuclear Weapons - Discussion.
« Reply #1019 on: August 11, 2017, 09:55:40 pm »
How about turning down the antagonism to the rest of the world and actually working to co-operate to actually cure the world's problems?  It's not all the US's fault, I admit but it does contribute, now particularly under Trump it's own degree of hubris.  A hubris some here appear to believe is natural and right when the rest of the world gets annoyed and rather pissed off at it.  The US is not the ruler of the world.   Trump needs to realise that and to pull his head in a great deal.  Some real humility would achieve far more than proclaiming all the time how great the US is.  ::)

« Last Edit: August 12, 2017, 02:21:11 am by Kadija_Man »