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Author Topic: Avro 720 and derivatives  (Read 34091 times)

Offline Antonio

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2007, 12:56:38 pm »
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TB, on the other hand, I feel is doing a different job- cataloguing, archiving, researching

Both are excellent professionals so, at the end I think it is a matter of personal preferences.
For me, I like Bill Gunson but Tony Buttler does exactly what I want to read. I love cataloguing, archiving and researching.

Offline Archibald

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2007, 12:14:46 am »
I was hoping that someone might know of any colour profiles along  'what-if' lines.

You REALLY have to become member of "the whatif modelers forum" in this case. You'll find tons of interesting stuff there  ;)
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
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Offline Spark

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2008, 09:45:21 am »
Its nothing at all to do with his age! Bill Gunston is a good aviation writer, but he's not really good at documenting his sources and sometimes says things that just aren't supported with evidence.

For instance he says the P.1121 was called the Hurricane II by Hawker, yet Ralph Hooper, who actually worked on P.1121, said that's not true (it was internally called the "New Fighter" or its project number, from P.1103 onward). I believe Ralph over Bill Gunston on this. In contrast Tony is very careful to research everything from primary sources.


The P1121 was called publically the Hurricane II but internally the companies designated test pilots called it the “Mach 2.4 Fighter”

Offline Spark

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2008, 09:58:06 am »
- Avro 720 with pure rocket propulsion
- Avro 720 with an additional jet engine (type unspecified),
  built as mock-up
- Avro 720 with an additional Gyro Junior engine

Hi,
The Avro 720 jet engine was the ASM viper

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2008, 11:45:46 am »

The P1121 was called publically the Hurricane II but internally the companies designated test pilots called it the “Mach 2.4 Fighter”

I had a 3 hour chat with Ralph Hooper this week who was one of the designers of the P.1121 and then worked on P.1127/Harrier.

He did not recall "Hurricane II" ever being used. I have some letters from the CTP (Bill Bedford) to Sir Sydney which use "new fighter" or "P.1121", not "Mach 2.4 fighter".

What is your source for this?
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Offline Spark

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #20 on: September 06, 2008, 03:31:00 am »

The P1121 was called publically the Hurricane II but internally the companies designated test pilots called it the “Mach 2.4 Fighter”

I had a 3 hour chat with Ralph Hooper this week who was one of the designers of the P.1121 and then worked on P.1127/Harrier.

He did not recall "Hurricane II" ever being used. I have some letters from the CTP (Bill Bedford) to Sir Sydney which use "new fighter" or "P.1121", not "Mach 2.4 fighter".

What is your source for this?


Casual conversation with a former Hawker test pilot following a talk at Hamilton Place. Not Bill Bedford, since his death; He said it was used between the pilots when referring to the prototype P1121.  The Gyron for that aircraft was to be limited to 23,000lb?  So this makes sense the service aircraft if ordered was to deliver 27,000lb which would give it a top speed at altitude in excess of the airframe limit of Mach 2.5.  He said that he thought it would have had the 35,000lb engine fitted.
The term “Hurricane” was used on the wireless about the time of cancellation which I thought was a silly idea; have seen in print since then but not in official documents.
 returning to the Avro 720 I was told by the chief designer that the naval verion would have had a front wing to help take off and supersonic flight.

Offline zen

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #21 on: September 06, 2008, 05:14:14 am »
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returning to the Avro 720 I was told by the chief designer that the naval verion would have had a front wing to help take off and supersonic flight.

Fascenating, thats what I predicted when looking at the design, though I read no mention of it.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #22 on: September 06, 2008, 05:44:24 am »
I've got a drawing of the Avro 729 design for F155T which is a canard "delta" similar in configuration to the Avro 730.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline Spark

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #23 on: September 06, 2008, 07:24:51 am »
I've got a drawing of the Avro 729 design for F155T which is a canard "delta" similar in configuration to the Avro 730.

Hi overscan,
One assumes the Naval aircraft would have been smaller than the Avro 729, could you post the drawing please. On the subject of the F155 there was an obscure reference to two airborne digital electronic computers by two UK companies cancelled early 1957 for use by the RAF. No details but a guess was they were for use either on the Avro 730 or the Fairey Fighter, no other UK aircraft would have been big enough. Have not traced any other details Any ideas?

Hi  Zen,

There was also a similar proposal for a low level aircraft, maybe Avro 721? But this could be wrong

The MoS blocked the completion of work on the application of area–rule to the Avro 720 which is a pity because it looked pretty and added performance.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #24 on: September 06, 2008, 07:37:45 am »
Here's a very small copy of the drawing.

Hoping to publish it in my P.1121 book eventually. Will have a fairly good section on F155T.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline zen

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #25 on: September 06, 2008, 10:23:35 am »
What a small pic ;) Still nevermind and much thanks for posting it! Even from that its clear its a substantialy different machine from the standard 720. Shades of 730 perhaps?

As for the 721 Spark, I can't remember, I'll check my resources but I doubt its any better than yours.

Computers.......two of them?
Considering the size of even a small computer at the time, I would guess thats for the 730 bomber, perhaps navigation, but it might be a bit of loose language for some system. Options would seem likely are:-
Something relating to the guided weapons on the Delta III?
Something relating to datalinks for GCI?

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #26 on: September 06, 2008, 02:09:44 pm »
My money's on Avro 730 too.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2008, 02:12:38 pm »
What a small pic ;) Still nevermind and much thanks for posting it! Even from that its clear its a substantialy different machine from the standard 720. Shades of 730 perhaps?

Its a bit like a Canberra front with Avro 730 layout. Twin seat side-by-side cockpit.

It is small but I am trying to resist the temptation to post everything I find here, which will inevitably reduce the appeal of my book a bit.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline zen

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #28 on: September 06, 2008, 03:50:16 pm »
Be strong overscan!
Harden your heart and just think that I and others here are likely going to buy your book! ;D

Offline elider

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Re: Avro 720 and derivatives
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2008, 08:34:41 am »
I definately will buy your book when it ispublished.