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Author Topic: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives  (Read 36866 times)

Offline RyanC

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Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« on: August 20, 2007, 10:45:32 pm »
Okay, we all know about the Manned V-1s; but were there any other "paper projects" done for bigger, larger, faster, further ranged V-1s?

Offline Archibald

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2007, 12:06:04 am »
I think Le Fana had some interesting stuff on the subject some years ago.
But I've lost my acess to a scanner... I've to found another way of scanning documents now
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

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Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
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Offline pometablava

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Offline Michel Van

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #3 on: August 28, 2007, 04:52:01 am »
nice joke pometablava

back to V-1
Not much Document survive the War
and WWW is full of Wacky Ideas Wat-if V-1 that fiction only

there was vague plans of use of V-1 on U-Boat. (Projekt Amerika ???)
or Use Bombers as Mobil Air launch platform for Fiesler 103

to Manned V-1 Fieseler Fi.103R Reichenberg
who don't know. the SS officer Otto Skorzeny had the idea of a piloted version of the V-1
Selbstopferflugzeug (self-sacrifice aircraft) for Point attack.
the Original Idea was that Pilot  bail out  befor impact (chance to survive that is ZERO%)
until Himmler hears of Selbstopferflugzeug and Declare: the Mission has to be fly by suicidal, Sick, criminal!


Fiesler 103 flugtorpedo by Gotha http://www.luft46.com/oddities/v1boat.html
the firma Gotha  proposal to use the V-1 for lowlevel attack on Battleship or Dams


by the way as i look for V-1 Data in my books i found article (with Picture) of a Me163 as Torpedo Bomber ! intrest ?




« Last Edit: August 28, 2007, 04:54:29 am by Michel Van »
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Offline pometablava

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #4 on: August 28, 2007, 04:46:55 pm »
Quote
by the way as i look for V-1 Data in my books i found article (with Picture) of a Me163 as Torpedo Bomber ! intrest ?

yes, please.

I think the Me 328 also has a Torpedo Bomber version (I could try to find this info in my library).

For V-1 improved variants, Ryan, you could read this info from Andreas Parsch:

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app1/ltv-n-2.html


Offline Archibald

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #5 on: August 29, 2007, 02:14:39 am »
nice joke pometablava

back to V-1
Not much Document survive the War
and WWW is full of Wacky Ideas Wat-if V-1 that fiction only

there was vague plans of use of V-1 on U-Boat. (Projekt Amerika ???)
or Use Bombers as Mobil Air launch platform for Fiesler 103

to Manned V-1 Fieseler Fi.103R Reichenberg
who don't know. the SS officer Otto Skorzeny had the idea of a piloted version of the V-1
Selbstopferflugzeug (self-sacrifice aircraft) for Point attack.
the Original Idea was that Pilot  bail out  befor impact (chance to survive that is ZERO%)
until Himmler hears of Selbstopferflugzeug and Declare: the Mission has to be fly by suicidal, Sick, criminal!


Fiesler 103 flugtorpedo by Gotha http://www.luft46.com/oddities/v1boat.html
the firma Gotha  proposal to use the V-1 for lowlevel attack on Battleship or Dams


by the way as i look for V-1 Data in my books i found article (with Picture) of a Me163 as Torpedo Bomber ! intrest ?






Some of the pics were on Le Fana article I've mentioned before ;)
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

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Offline AMF

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2007, 09:05:11 am »
According to the book Peenemünde West by Botho Stüwe (Augsburg, Munich 1998) there were plans for at least three types of improvement to the unpiloted version of the Fi 103 (pages 678 - 681):

A long range version, to be called Fi 103 F-1. It was to have an enlarged fuel tank, but a smaller warhead, whose weight was to be reduced to about 530 kilogrammes. To compensate for the smaller size of the warhead, its filling was to consist of "Trialen", which was considered a more powerful explosive than the original filling (some of the ingredients of Trialen were TNT and aluminum powder). The enlarged tank was to contain 1025 litres of fuel.
The new range was to be 345 kilometers with "E1" fuel and 370 kilometers with "E2" fuel. A further improvement was planned with a range of 500 kilometers. Since the compressed air in the spherical storage tank was not sufficient to pump fuel and actuate control surfaces for this long distance, and since there was not enough room for an enlarged air tank, a crude compressor, driven by the pulsejet would have had to be installed on the 500 kilometer version.

Improved powerplants: An improved pulsejet from Argus, the type 044.
The firms Porsche and BMW were given orders to develop turbojets as powerplants. The Porsche engine was planned to weigh about 200 kilogrammes and was to give the Fi 103 a range of 700 kilometers and a top speed of 900 km/h.

An improved guidance system: a direction finding transmitter was to be installed in the Fi 103. At a predetermined period after launch, this was to send an impulse that was to be picked up by two separate direction finding receivers. From this impulse the position and speed of the missile could be calculated, which in turn helped to determine to correct any deviation from its ideal course and the necessary corrections, which were transmitted back to the missile.

Offline Maveric

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2007, 09:59:40 am »
Sorry, but the name is not Fiesler. It must be Fieseler.

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Offline hesham

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2007, 09:40:46 am »
Hi,

A trainer version of Fiesler piloted V-1.
http://discaircraft.greyfalcon.us/German%20Suicidal%20Aircraft.htm

Offline Speedy

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #9 on: November 20, 2007, 11:55:08 am »
(Sorry for my english)

According to Roger Ford's book "Germany's Secret Weapons of WWII" the long-range V-1 (Fi-103F-1) was put into production in 1945 and used against UK from 3.March.1945, when the German army lost the territories, from where they can attack London with "standard" V-1.

Trialen 105 was a mixture of 70% TNT, 15% RDX and 15% aluminium powder.

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Offline Michel Van

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2008, 02:08:53 pm »
Wat so special on version Fi-103R-III and  Fi-103R-IV. ???
« Last Edit: December 24, 2008, 05:42:45 am by Michel Van »
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Offline hole in the ground

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2008, 03:34:49 pm »
extra fuel tank/different warhead?
IV almost looks like an intake... but that is surely not its purpose. Shaped charge maybe?

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2008, 03:12:57 am »
.. and the R-III seems to have a landing skid ...      ???
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Meteorit

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2008, 05:11:23 am »
According to German Aircraft of the Second World War by Smith and Kay, the Fi 103R-I had ballast in place of the warhead, skids and landing flaps but no pulsejet and was used for the test programme; the R-II was similar but had a second cockpit in the nose section for training; the R-III had the pulsejet, skids and landing flaps but no warhead and was to be used for advanced training; and the operational R-IV had the pulsejet, warhead and no landing aids. This of course leaves the last variant in the picture with the different nose unidentified.

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #15 on: December 23, 2008, 08:09:36 am »
From Reichdreams Nº4

Offline Speedy

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #16 on: December 24, 2008, 02:42:46 am »
(sorry for my English)

I remember some years ago I've read something about V-1's warhead versions. There were mentioned a standard steel version, plywood-made version, a body of SB1000 bomb... I can't remember what was this publication or website.
Maybe someone have such detailed information about V-1 warheads as total warhead weight, explosive weight, kind of explosive etc.?

Offline robunos

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2008, 02:53:51 am »
Quote
Maybe someone have such detailed information about V-1 warheads as total warhead weight, explosive weight, kind of explosive etc.?

I have a rather good book about the V-1, 'The Flying Bomb' by Richard Anthony Young.
I think there might be some info in that, trouble is, I'm staying with family over Christmas, and will be away from my library and PC for the next few days.
Will get straight on it when I return at the weekend.

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Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2008, 05:18:55 am »
From "V - Missiles of the Third Reich" by Dieter Hölsken

Offline Speedy

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2008, 06:05:35 am »
(sorry for my english)
Thanks a lot! These pictures are impressive. Unfortunately there's no weight data about most of these versions :(.

Offline robunos

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2008, 12:06:43 pm »
Quote
From "V - Missiles of the Third Reich" by Dieter Hölsken

surpassed once again by the master..., ;)

FWIW, here's what info i've got, from 'The Flying Bomb', Richard Anthony Young, pp. 133-4.

cheers,
         Robin.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2008, 12:26:02 pm by robunos »
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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #21 on: January 05, 2009, 12:10:09 pm »
Hallo piloten...

An interesting link....http://www.zenza.se/vw/ ;)

soon

gery

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #22 on: January 16, 2009, 12:11:43 pm »
From UNKNOWN! N.2

Offline lark

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #23 on: January 16, 2009, 02:09:52 pm »
Besides the manned V1's - Reichenberg I to IV (1-4) -  there
was also a V (5)version. This fuselage of this concept was much shorter in front of
the cockpit and it was seen as an alternate trainer for the He-162 instead
of the He-162S.

Source : Luftfahrt History - vol.2 'Die Geschichte der bemanten V1' Lautec.Siegen.Deutschland.

Offline Tophe

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #24 on: January 17, 2009, 08:08:33 am »
A V-1 Zwilling (twin-fuselage, twin-pulse-jet) has been built, but maybe only as what-if model after the year 2000. I don't know if this has been industrially considered during WW2.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2009, 03:08:42 am »
I'm not sure, that the photo really depicts a launching ramp. To me it looks
more as a trailer, the downfoldable and lockable wooden sides are clearly
visible, I think.
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Offline Zizi6785

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2009, 05:10:06 am »
A V-1 Zwilling (twin-fuselage, twin-pulse-jet) has been built, but maybe only as what-if model after the year 2000. I don't know if this has been industrially considered during WW2.

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2009, 07:15:16 am »
A V-1 Zwilling (twin-fuselage, twin-pulse-jet) has been built, but maybe only as what-if model after the year 2000. I don't know if this has been industrially considered during WW2.

I'm afraid the V-1 Zwilling is a Internet Fake ...
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Offline Boogey

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #28 on: May 10, 2009, 06:06:02 am »
Hi,

http://greyfalcon.us/Fiesler%20Fi.htm

In the Wiesław Bączkowski's book " Tajne Bronie III Rzeszy " ( The Secret Weapons of Third Reich )
I've got all five versions described :
1. Typical V1 ( Fieseler Fi 103 / FZG 76 ) ;
2. Reichenberg I ( reconstructed V1 ) ;
3. Reichenberg II ( engineless two-seat training version ) ;
4. Reichenberg III ( engined single-seat training version ) ;
5. Reichenberg IV ( fighting operational version ).

Datas :
span - 4,9 m ( FZG 76 ), 5,7 m ( R. II & R. IV )
lenght - 7,7 m ( FZG 76 ), 7,53 m ( R. II ), 8,0 m ( R. IV )
height - 1,5 m ( FZG 76 ), 1,1 m ( R. II ) 1,6 m ( R. IV )
wing area - 4,8 m2 ( FZG 76 ), 5,4 m2 ( R. II & R. IV )
empty weight - 675 kg ( FZG 76 ), 850 kg ( R. IV )
max. take-off - 2180 kg ( FZG 76 ), 2250 kg ( R. IV )
speed of start - 378 km/h ( FZG 76 & R. IV )
cruising speed - 575 km/h ( FZG 76 ), 645 km/h ( R. IV )
max. fighting speed - 800 km/h ( FZG 76 & R. IV )
service ceiling - 3000 m ( FZG 76 ), 2500 m ( R. IV )
range - 240 km ( FZG 76 ), 286 km ( R. IV )
engine - Argus As 014 ( FZG 76 & R. IV )
explosive load - 1000 kg ( FZG 76 ), 850 kg ( R. IV ).
 
« Last Edit: May 10, 2009, 06:10:15 am by Boogey »
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Offline sagallacci

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2009, 06:18:37 pm »
Keep in mind that most of the published drawings of the various machines are badly inaccurate, either in small ways, like not showing that the fuselage just aft the fuel tank section has a stretch segment or that the fin and rudder have increased cord, or more major features. like the entirely speculative version of the two-seat machine, first appearing in Wm Green's "Warplanes of the Third Reich" and repeated in the posted drawing sets. 

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #30 on: August 05, 2010, 05:06:32 am »
there one think i don't understand
the Cockpit is in Part were in Fi-103 are the two Air pressure tanks for puls engine fuel feed.
so were are they in Fi-103R or are they replace by a fuel pump ?
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Offline Wasp

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #31 on: January 03, 2011, 11:02:12 am »
How about the non-manned variants of the V-1?

For example has anyone some info on the so-called "short-nosed" V-1?
What was its designgoal?
I once saw a drawing and if I remember correctly the "Shortnose" was not only shorter, but had differntly shaped wings than the standard version.
Is this correct?

Also there is an enlarged probably nuclear warheaded V-1 project often named "Wotan" floating through the net and certain publications.
Does some hard facts about such a big V-1 (atomic or not) exist?
Or is it simply identical with the longe-range version mentioned earlier in the Peenemünde report?



« Last Edit: January 03, 2011, 11:06:24 am by Wasp »
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Offline sagallacci

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #32 on: January 09, 2011, 08:52:07 am »
The short nose machines had a reduced size/weight warhead and larger mid-fuselage fuel tank for extended range. There was an alternate wooden wing of tapered shape, but not much info survives on what/where/when. Also, there was a wooden wing of standard shape and increased span intended for the long range versions and the Reichenbergs, but not much on them either.

There was a chemical and possibly radiological dispersing warhead designed. Since there were no serious atomic weapons in progress there were no atomic warheads for the V-1. However, the US did preliminary design work on a purpose-built atomic warhead for the JB-2 but didn't actually do any.

Offline airman

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #33 on: January 10, 2011, 12:17:10 pm »
A V-1 Zwilling (twin-fuselage, twin-pulse-jet) has been built, but maybe only as what-if model after the year 2000. I don't know if this has been industrially considered during WW2.

I'm afraid the V-1 Zwilling is a Internet Fake ...
Yes, could be !  ;D
Assembling a V-1 and guided V-1 you have, as result, V-1 Zwilling !  :D
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Offline Nik

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #34 on: January 10, 2011, 12:26:23 pm »
Given the V1 was *just* catchable by RAF interceptors, I must wonder why a bigger, twin-jet (pulse) was not tried...

Of course, by then, the V projects were a bit mired in issues like the RAF 'earthquake-bombing' the London Guns, quality control in the slave-labour factories etc etc...

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2011, 09:36:06 pm »
A bigger, twin-jet V1 probably would have meant a design, with very few parts
unaltered and changes necessary for most steps in the production process and
certainly would have resulted in a temporary drop of production numbers. At least
for those of the German high command with some understanding it was clear, that
the only real value of the V1 was, that it absorbed quite a lot of fighters, AA guns
and effort, not actually the damage it did.
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Offline sagallacci

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #36 on: January 11, 2011, 12:09:43 pm »
The pulse jets simply don't run all that much faster if you had two. The basics of it was both speed and altitude limited. 
On the other hand, the small gain might be considered enough to try. But for an unmanned version, it would simply mean twice as big a bang that missed and for a manned version, twice the number of airframes taken out of useful stocks for a project that was never used operationally.

Offline Johnbr

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #37 on: January 11, 2011, 01:55:29 pm »
What the V1 need was pabst ramjet or the 006 jet engine.

Offline Wasp

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #38 on: January 11, 2011, 02:04:43 pm »
Thanks for the info Sagallacci.

So no measures/angles on the short nose type and the alternate wings or even a drawing?

As for the twin V-1, I agree with your statement. The speedincrease wouldn't have been siginificant, only the payload or if they chose to increase the fuel amount instead of a second warhead i.e. the increased range (which would have been the only reasonable pro considering the lost or soon loosing of areas as starting points in reach of targets in Britain).
And although the building of a twin V-1 could have used most of the existing parts of the missile, all the ramps and starting mechanisms would have had to be adapted to this new types as well, which was probably a far more complicated matter than bashing the twin V-1 together itself.

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Offline shockonlip

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #39 on: January 11, 2011, 04:19:35 pm »

A little tidbit here.

When I was working on my PDE piece that was published in AW&ST some years back,
one of my expert PDE scientists had a copy of Paul Schmidt's (inventor of the pulsejet
used in the V-1) technical diary. In it, according to my source, Schmidt mentions that
he realized that the pulsejet used in the V-1 had poor pressurization and that increased
pressurization caused by detonation would be better.

So this should be verified, but it's a little piece of interesting information for someone say
writing a book.

A PDE is of course one of the more efficient (due to increased pressure) and modern forms
of the old pulsejet.

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #40 on: January 12, 2011, 06:12:32 am »
Funny how the Russians went with a twin-pulsejet version of the V-1:



Offline Wasp

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #41 on: January 12, 2011, 07:44:41 am »
I find the wings of the russian version interesting. Is this possibly a copy of those tapered shaped V-1 wings?

As for the increased pressure by detonation, I'm not sure if that would have been easily applyable to the Argus Pulsejets, as they already had a hard time to limit the vibrations of those with lower pressure, experiencing distortions of the pulsejets exhaust.
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Offline Michel Van

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #42 on: January 12, 2011, 08:36:44 am »
this twin-pulsejet is NOT A Fi-103 derivative
This is derivative on Junkers EF 60 and EF 126 Elly and EF 127 Walli Objektschutzjäger
had to used Argus-Schmidt pulsejet, (original one)
note in russia twin-pulsejet picture, the wing configuration is a Low wing and form is like Junkers EF 60 126 127


http://www.luft46.com/junkers/juef126.html
source:
Die Deutsche Luftfahrt
Hugo Junkers Pionier der Luftfahrt - seine Flugzeug
By Wolfgang Wagner
Bernard & Graete Verlag

« Last Edit: January 12, 2011, 08:48:00 am by Michel Van »
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Offline robunos

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #43 on: January 13, 2011, 01:48:01 pm »
Quote
I once saw a drawing and if I remember correctly the "Shortnose" was not only shorter, but had differntly shaped wings than the standard version.
Is this correct?

From 'The Flying Bomb', Richard Anthony Young, page 135.

The author states that the short-nose version "...appear to have been survivors of a pre-production batch."


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Offline Wasp

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #44 on: January 14, 2011, 11:01:51 am »
this twin-pulsejet is NOT A Fi-103 derivative
This is derivative on Junkers EF 60 and EF 126 Elly and EF 127 Walli Objektschutzjäger
had to used Argus-Schmidt pulsejet, (original one)
note in russia twin-pulsejet picture, the wing configuration is a Low wing and form is like Junkers EF 60 126 127





Do you have any data that confirms the direct connection between these Junkers projects and the russian Twin-Pulsejet?

I really don't think that it was based on the EF60/126/127 Junkers project.
For one the russian wing looks far more like the tapered V-1 wing clearly showing in the drawing that Robin provided, than the wing of far great span of the EF 126 model.
Also the conclusion, that the EF 126 etc. was a low wing design, therefore the russian missile did develop from that is in my opinion very thin as well, because the finally build EF 126 from 1946 under soviet control was a midwing and early design drawings shows it as a midwing too.
It was common practice of course to test differend wing designs on the windtunnel models, which probably led to the model seen in the picture.

Changing the V-1s midwing design to a low wing simply makes sense from an aerodynamically point of view, because of the use of two engines. Becaus those engines now sit not directly abvoe the fuselage but angeled to the side, they also were closer in the line of the original midwing, which probably could have caused a worse airflow to the intakes due to the airflow around the wings especially the turbulence in angeled positions (during the start i.e.). So lowering the wings could have been an easy solution to avert this problem.



From 'The Flying Bomb', Richard Anthony Young, page 135.

The author states that the short-nose version "...appear to have been survivors of a pre-production batch."


Yes, I think this is it.
Thank you!

The author could have been very well correct with his statement, as the simple front attachement of the engine on a "pole" was indeed used on the prototypes.
42 is just the beginning

Offline redstar72

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #45 on: January 14, 2011, 02:38:25 pm »
this twin-pulsejet is NOT A Fi-103 derivative
This is derivative on Junkers EF 60 and EF 126 Elly and EF 127 Walli Objektschutzjäger
had to used Argus-Schmidt pulsejet, (original one)
note in russia twin-pulsejet picture, the wing configuration is a Low wing and form is like Junkers EF 60

No, you are mistaken.
Of course EF-126 was actually developed and even tested under Soviet control and even in the USSR itself. But the model on rickshaw's photo has no connection to it. The model actually represents 16Kh Priboy (16Х "Прибой" (Breaking wave)), a flying bomb designed by Vladimir Chelomey in 1947 and tested since 1948 to 1953. It was actually a V-1 derivative - the last evolution stage, after 1945-built 10Kh (Soviet copy of the V-1) and more advanced (but still single-engine) 14Kh from 1946.

The 16Kh wasn't low-wing, it was middle-wing like all its precursors. It's just the bad aspect angle of the photo.

Technical data:
 Wing span - 4.68 m
 Length - 7.6 m
 Fuselage diameter - 0.84 m
 Wing area - 4.91 m2
 Weight - 2557 kg
 Warhead weight - 950 kg
 Powerplant - two D-14-4 pulsejets, 2.5 kN each
 Maximum speed - around 900 km/h
 Operational range - 190 km
 Cruising altitude - 1000 m


The attached drawing is from Belarusian Aeroplan magazine, issue 12 (year 1995). I also attach a photo of 16Kh test missile under the Tu-4: you see, it is mid-wing. More info in Russian here: http://www.airwar.ru/weapon/ab/priboy.html.

Returning to EF-126 - any flying bombs or missiles weren't developed on its base, it was tested only as piloted attack aircraft.
Best regards,
Alexander

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #46 on: January 14, 2011, 02:46:22 pm »
Quote
Do you have any data that confirms the direct connection between these Junkers projects and the russian Twin-Pulsejet?
the soviets show great interest in Junkers design and move the project to USSR after WW2
but abandoned the project after testpilot was kilt as EF 60 glider crashed.
Some of EF 126 design was later reused on advance version of russian V1  called 10Kh 
(EF 126 has middel wing, not like EF 60 low wing)
 
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Offline redstar72

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #47 on: January 14, 2011, 03:16:33 pm »
Some of EF 126 design was later reused on advance version of russian V1  called 10Kh
(EF 126 has middel wing, not like EF 60 low wing)
 

 ???... It's hardly possible, because the 10Kh came up before the EF-126!

The EF-126 made its first flight in Germany on May 21, 1946; in the Soviet Union - on March 16, 1947. The 10Kh missile was tested since March 20, 1945...
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 03:18:43 pm by redstar72 »
Best regards,
Alexander

Offline Kadija_Man

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #48 on: January 18, 2011, 01:54:39 am »
this twin-pulsejet is NOT A Fi-103 derivative

I didn't claim it was.  I'm not sure why you assumed I had made that claim?  The point I was making was that, despite what was claimed, some people seemed to think having two pulsejets on their missile seemed to confer some advantage, thats all.  Perhaps they knew something?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2011, 01:56:32 am by rickshaw »

Offline hesham

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2011, 04:56:43 am »
Hi,

I read this article about the Fieseler V-1,and I found this Project P 35 Erfurt,
and I am asking,what is that P series,and did it belong to Argus,Lorentz AG
or Fieseler ?.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V-1_(flying_bomb)

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2011, 08:45:33 am »
Project 35 "Erfurt" was a Argus & Fieseler join venture for flying Bomb study,
on 27 February 1942 it was a Aircraft with 2 Pulsengine under wing,
April 1942 it became the V1 design with one Pulse engine
with range of 300 km with speed of 700 km/h and 500 kg warhead
and had to be radar or radio controlled, but the RLM consider useless because ECM by the Allies
so design change to gyrocompass control Autopilot
on 19 June 1942 the project was approved and term P35 was change to Fi-103

http://books.google.be/books?id=kGyc0NZEe_QC&pg=PT7&lpg=PT7&dq=Project+P+35+Erfurt&source=bl&ots=NggSAyGv9H&sig=4nKvglHw2pgtShnhotlHSFYxqHE&hl=en&ei=HddnTaH7IY2whQfH3YHzDg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false
 

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Offline hesham

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #51 on: February 26, 2011, 07:22:55 am »
Thank you my dear Michel Van.

Offline Maveric

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #52 on: February 26, 2011, 10:37:54 am »
Is it correct to say: P.35 "Erfurth" = Fi.P.35 ? :-\
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Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #53 on: July 19, 2011, 10:36:14 am »
There is an interesting declassified report (Google docs link) from April 1945 that I just discovered while looking for more info on Myrol.

Among other things, there is a reference which indicates that Allied intelligence suspected that the Germans had been experimenting with a (60% Hydrogen Peroxide) D2R solution in the launching of V-1s (the catapult steam generator normally used a T-Stoff/Z-Stoff reaction). The report notes this in the context that Myrol had being looked at by the Geramans as a Hydrogen Peroxide replacement in a wide range of applications, including as a rocket fuel/ rocket fuel component. This was due in part to major shortfalls in the production of Hydrogen Peroxide despite the best efforts of the RLA (Armament Supply Office).

The report also noted that since the main processing plant was now in the hands of the advancing Russians, not much more could be expected out of German Myrol related efforts despite it's promise as a rocket fuel. That plant, which used a production process involving the continous vapor-phase nitration of methanol, had been located at Christianstadt on the Boder.

So it looks like Myrol may have been looked at for more than just an alternate warhead filler, with regards as to the V-1 program.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 11:48:57 am by Grey Havoc »
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Offline Michel Van

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #54 on: July 19, 2011, 11:59:14 am »
the Myrol option would work for the Mittelwerk V1 Production site
because they have Potash salt deposit to make nitric acid in Mittelwerk GBMH factory
also in south and east of Mittelwerk are rich Lignite deposit, ideal for Methanol production
Nitric acid and Methanol makes Myrol

although, i have doubt that some thing unstable like Myrol can be used in V1 catapult or rocketfuel to replace T-stoff
but the Wehrmacht was totally distressed in those days...
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #55 on: July 19, 2011, 12:14:45 pm »
There is an interesting declassified report (Google docs link)

Also available as a PDF here:http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/122495.pdf
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Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2013, 05:19:15 am »
A June 1948 Project Squid report regarding the the V-1's pulsejet:
The Aero-Resonator Power Plant of the V-1 Flying Bomb

Quote
A detailed study is presented of the development of the pulsejet engine which served as
the power plant for the German V-1 flying bomb. The history and development of the
pulsejet from its crudest designs and the test stands developed for this type engine are
considered. The dissertation on resonator valves covers inlet valves, flow valves, and
controlled valves. The general basic requirements, origins of resonator shapes, and
special resonator tube shapes are discussed as well as the basic requirements and basic
types of mixture formation, mixture formation equipment for vaporous and gaseous fuels
and powder fuels, and special arrangements of the spoiler nozzle mixture formation
process. The principles of automatic mixture regulation and gas mixture arrangements
are reviewed.
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Offline hesham

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #57 on: March 15, 2015, 08:39:52 am »
Hi,


here is the Fieseler P.35 Erfurt,which led to V-1.


V-1 Flying bomb 1942-52

Offline hesham

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #58 on: March 15, 2015, 02:20:20 pm »

here is the Fieseler P.35 Erfurt,which led to V-1.

V-1 Flying bomb 1942-52


Hi,


as I read before,the manned version of V-1 (Fi.103R) was given anther "P"
designation number,but where,can anyone help ?.

Offline hesham

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #59 on: September 28, 2016, 05:34:01 am »
Also from; Flieger Revue Extra 40.

Offline hesham

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #60 on: October 14, 2017, 06:32:53 am »
From Aero ; Kamikaze.

Offline Hamzalippischh

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #61 on: July 13, 2018, 08:40:53 am »
Just found this interesting three-view of the P 35 Erfurt on this link : http://denzjos.rf.gd/afstandswapens.html?i=1
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Offline pometablava

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2018, 09:59:07 am »
Quote
Just found this interesting three-view of the P 35 Erfurt on this link

The article looks interesting. Which idiom is it? I can't identify and I'd like to use Google Translator...

Thanks in advance,

Antonio

Offline martinbayer

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #63 on: July 13, 2018, 11:56:22 am »
Quote
Just found this interesting three-view of the P 35 Erfurt on this link

The article looks interesting. Which idiom is it? I can't identify and I'd like to use Google Translator...

Thanks in advance,

Antonio

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Offline edwest

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #64 on: November 13, 2018, 05:23:22 pm »
I suggest the book The V1 and its Soviet Successors by Wilfried Kopenhagen. ISBN 0-7643-1274-X

It even shows a French version, NORD CT-10.


https://www.amazon.com/Soviet-Successors-Schiffer-Military-History/dp/076431274X
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 05:48:04 pm by edwest »

Offline Dilandu

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #65 on: November 18, 2018, 03:47:13 am »
Well, there was the "Ansaldo" Fi-106, adapted for shipborne use Fi-103 reconstruction (made on basis of Bornholm crash intelligence data).

Based on Aircraft Carrier Impero: The Axis Powers’ V-1 Carrying Capital Ship - Davide F. Jabes, Stefano Sappino (Fonthill, 2018)

Offline Retrofit

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Re: Fieseler Fi-103 (V 1) development, variants and derivatives
« Reply #66 on: November 18, 2018, 06:17:46 am »
It even shows a French version, NORD CT-10.

The Arsenal 5501, later officialy referenced as CT 10 was, grosso modo, a half-scaled V1 designed as an aerial target.
413 built including 50 for the Royal Navy.
First flight: December the 17th, 1949.

Photo & drawings from "Missiles Tactiques Européens" Patrick Mercillon, Ed. ETAI 2017
« Last Edit: November 18, 2018, 06:21:16 am by Retrofit »

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Offline TsrJoe

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