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Author Topic: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed  (Read 3629 times)

Offline uk 75

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Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« on: September 12, 2014, 02:41:23 am »
Harrier in particular


The three view drawings published for the HS 1154 do not seem to show the final version at cancellation or the two seater.


I think your Air Britain article published the two seater, but not the single seater?


I would still love to see a book on this plane

Offline uk 75

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2017, 07:54:58 am »
Just purchased the new edition of Tony B's excellent Secret projects book on British fighters.
I was hoping to find a three view of the final version of the P1154RAF, but again the standard
three view is used of the variant just before with different cockpit glazing for example.
Also, the various iterations of the P1154RN are described, but are not illustrated. I have various
drawings of these from different sources, but it would be nice to have them in one place.
Michael Pryce is the expert on this subject, but there must be sources that could be drawn together.

Offline hesham

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2017, 11:26:23 am »
Not 3-view,but I don't know if this a final version or not ?.

Offline thefrecklepuny

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2017, 11:53:45 am »
Hmmm, catapult launched AND STOVL? I guess the main advantage would be no need for arrestor wires making recovery simpler.

Offline uk 75

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2017, 02:43:49 pm »
The main variants of the P1154 RN  are always
randomly illustrated. I thnk Hesham's is the
bicycle version intended to be more common
for both services.
I am sure that Michael Pryce has the final variant
of the P1154RAF

Offline LowObservable

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #5 on: July 16, 2017, 07:02:37 am »
IIRC, from way back: RN required F-4-like performance and attributes (two seats, big radar) that were beyond what could be done with STO, particularly given that the ski-jump had not been invented. So CATOVL (to coin a phrase) was essential.

Of course what the RN really really meant was "we want the F-4" but nobody was listening.

Offline uk 75

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 03:01:24 am »
Here are the main variants of the P1154 starting with the Joint Service and finishing with the
RAF version as it looked at cancellation, for which no three view exists.
Note the bicycle and tricycle RN variants

Offline hesham

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 04:32:49 am »
Nice find UK 75.

Offline uk 75

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 04:54:22 am »
Thanks Hesham
The problem is that they are all copyrighted to someone and I can appreciate why
authors cannot use them in a book. However, given the importance the of P1154
I find it sad that modern books cannot be bothered to get new drawings done to
illustrate this simple ladder, as I have done.  Back in the 70s and 80s this was
done, but again the illustrations never seemed to match the text.

Offline JFC Fuller

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 05:19:29 am »
Of course what the RN really really meant was "we want the F-4" but nobody was listening.

We would like it to have two seats....like a Phantom
and a big air search and fire control radar....like a Phantom
and tricycle undercarriage....like a Phantom
and two engines....like a Phantom

In fact...

Can we just have Phantoms?

Offline uk 75

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 12:10:33 pm »
JFC Lowobservable
Every book that mentions P1154RN points out the
Phantom story. What I object to is shelling out
for a book and getting incomplete illustrations of the
key variants when as I demonstrate above they could
be redrawn to avoid copyright. Can you address that point.

Offline TsrJoe

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #11 on: July 18, 2017, 03:59:23 am »
might be worth contacting the archivist at Brooklands to arrange copies of the actual project drawings of P.1154 development :)
...'excuse me mister, is that plane for real'...!!!

IPMS (UK) R&D.P&C. SIG. co,co-ordinator
'Research & Development, Projected & Cancelled'
IPMS (UK) 'TSR-2', 'Cold War' & 'What-if' SIG Member

Offline Harrier

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  • BAe P.1216 book: harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm
Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2017, 05:25:42 am »
Harrier in particular


The three view drawings published for the HS 1154 do not seem to show the final version at cancellation or the two seater.


I think your Air Britain article published the two seater, but not the single seater?


I would still love to see a book on this plane

The two-seater GA was in that article, but not the version on the website (http://www.harrier.org.uk/history/history_p1154.htm). The latest single seat GA I have seen (inc. all at Brooklands) is the one in the 2nd Ed. 1986 Project Cancelled, from Aug. '64. two seat was Nov. and windscreen had lost vertical frames and a tail bumper was added. GAs were done for brochures, and these were the last ones of those.

By late '64 the design was changing as drawings were issued to the shops, and mods became apparent from wind tunnel tests (probably needing a change to the tailplane). There is no final GA of the version in the jigs that I have seen.
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft: www.harrier.org.uk/P1216.htm

100 Years  - Camel, Hurricane, Harrier: www.kingstonaviation.org

Offline uk 75

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2017, 08:00:03 am »
Harrier
Thank you for this very detailed account.
It iis still a shame that all the currently
published books which refer to P1154
do not have the ga drawings that would
match, rather than the scant ones used.
Please do us a definitive book on P1154,
especially with the current row over UK F35
procurement.

Offline TsrJoe

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Re: Hawker P1154 RAF Final variant three views needed
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 10:04:59 am »
id second a call for a monograph on the P.1154 Harrier, i'm sure it would prove a very popular subject to cover in similar vein to the previous volumes we have seen on the P.1216 and P.1121 :)

 B)
...'excuse me mister, is that plane for real'...!!!

IPMS (UK) R&D.P&C. SIG. co,co-ordinator
'Research & Development, Projected & Cancelled'
IPMS (UK) 'TSR-2', 'Cold War' & 'What-if' SIG Member