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Author Topic: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks  (Read 40678 times)

Offline militarium

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We saw Nota and Molot,but has any Ob.477 Bokser prototype been made?

Some sources say that several (2-3) prototypes were built, but others - none.

http://militarium.net/radzieckie-i-ukrainskie-czolgi-nowej-generacji-od-obiekt-450-do-obiekt-477a1-nota/

Offline Kat Tsun

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Via Mr King over at TankNet, an apparent model of the Object 299:


EDIT: Though another commentator is claiming that it is actually a model of the RDF/LT with the 75mm HV autocannon.

It is 299. Most certainly it isn't RDF/LT. The RDF/LT had a mere five roadwheels, the overhang of the gun was greater, and the engine was in the back rather than the front, as is the case here. There was also an infantry fighting vehicle, an armored breaching vehicle, and VLS missile carrier planned to accompany the tank. LKZ managed to build a couple mobility prototypes of the new chassis (APC model) and a robotic(?) mine clearing vehicle, but it never progressed further than that. There are pictures/concept images of the 152mm ammunition and cannon that was planned for the 299, too, but who knows if it was actually ever seen in the steel.

The interior layout always struck me as odd, though. Surely the crew should be behind the gun, with as much mass of the tank in front, but I suppose that would make optronics somewhat complex (since 299 is a pre-fiber optic tank design) and direct vision mostly impossible without a complicated series of mirrors.

Below, in order respective, is the Obj. 299 tank, missile/VLS tank destroyer, some sort of engineering vehicle, and a combat mobility vehicle, all based on the 299 as I understand. There is some stuff on Gur Khan's blog which has the same pictures in colour too, where he says that the last vehicle is actually called Object 232, but was related to 299 in some manner. He also has pictures, again in colour, of concepts of the 299 IFV (it carried 8 dismounts, 2 crew, and had a robotic turret with some large caliber [57mm?] automatic cannon) and a few other vehicles, but I don't know if it would be polite to post the images here without his permission.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 05:42:44 pm by Kat Tsun »

Offline jsport

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Re: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2016, 07:16:54 am »
Via Mr King over at TankNet, an apparent model of the Object 299:


EDIT: Though another commentator is claiming that it is actually a model of the RDF/LT with the 75mm HV autocannon.

It is 299. Most certainly it isn't RDF/LT. The RDF/LT had a mere five roadwheels, the overhang of the gun was greater, and the engine was in the back rather than the front, as is the case here. There was also an infantry fighting vehicle, an armored breaching vehicle, and VLS missile carrier planned to accompany the tank. LKZ managed to build a couple mobility prototypes of the new chassis (APC model) and a robotic(?) mine clearing vehicle, but it never progressed further than that. There are pictures/concept images of the 152mm ammunition and cannon that was planned for the 299, too, but who knows if it was actually ever seen in the steel.

The interior layout always struck me as odd, though. Surely the crew should be behind the gun, with as much mass of the tank in front, but I suppose that would make optronics somewhat complex (since 299 is a pre-fiber optic tank design) and direct vision mostly impossible without a complicated series of mirrors.

Below, in order respective, is the Obj. 299 tank, missile/VLS tank destroyer, some sort of engineering vehicle, and a combat mobility vehicle, all based on the 299 as I understand. There is some stuff on Gur Khan's blog which has the same pictures in colour too, where he says that the last vehicle is actually called Object 232, but was related to 299 in some manner. He also has pictures, again in colour, of concepts of the 299 IFV (it carried 8 dismounts, 2 crew, and had a robotic turret with some large caliber [57mm?] automatic cannon) and a few other vehicles, but I don't know if it would be polite to post the images here without his permission.
Great stuff thank you for posting.

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks
« Reply #63 on: September 08, 2016, 06:53:15 pm »
GDLS also developed a concept for the RDF/LT which used their external gun mount (which eventually found a home on the Stryker AGS) and a forward engine. But it has the gunner and commander rotating inside the turret ring not sitting in front of it as in this model. So very unlikely to be a USA proposal.
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Offline TomS

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Re: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks
« Reply #64 on: September 09, 2016, 05:30:52 am »
GDLS also developed a concept for the RDF/LT which used their external gun mount (which eventually found a home on the Stryker AGS) and a forward engine. But it has the gunner and commander rotating inside the turret ring not sitting in front of it as in this model. So very unlikely to be a USA proposal.

I'm pretty sure the comment on Tanknet was a joke, referring to the superficial similarity between Obj.  299 and the RDF/LT.


Offline Grey Havoc

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Re: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks
« Reply #65 on: September 10, 2016, 09:42:33 am »
GDLS also developed a concept for the RDF/LT which used their external gun mount (which eventually found a home on the Stryker AGS) and a forward engine. But it has the gunner and commander rotating inside the turret ring not sitting in front of it as in this model. So very unlikely to be a USA proposal.

I'm pretty sure the comment on Tanknet was a joke, referring to the superficial similarity between Obj.  299 and the RDF/LT.

Wouldn't be surprised.
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Offline Kat Tsun

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Re: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks
« Reply #66 on: September 10, 2016, 11:10:46 pm »
Via Mr King over at TankNet, an apparent model of the Object 299:


EDIT: Though another commentator is claiming that it is actually a model of the RDF/LT with the 75mm HV autocannon.

It is 299. Most certainly it isn't RDF/LT. The RDF/LT had a mere five roadwheels, the overhang of the gun was greater, and the engine was in the back rather than the front, as is the case here. There was also an infantry fighting vehicle, an armored breaching vehicle, and VLS missile carrier planned to accompany the tank. LKZ managed to build a couple mobility prototypes of the new chassis (APC model) and a robotic(?) mine clearing vehicle, but it never progressed further than that. There are pictures/concept images of the 152mm ammunition and cannon that was planned for the 299, too, but who knows if it was actually ever seen in the steel.

The interior layout always struck me as odd, though. Surely the crew should be behind the gun, with as much mass of the tank in front, but I suppose that would make optronics somewhat complex (since 299 is a pre-fiber optic tank design) and direct vision mostly impossible without a complicated series of mirrors.

Below, in order respective, is the Obj. 299 tank, missile/VLS tank destroyer, some sort of engineering vehicle, and a combat mobility vehicle, all based on the 299 as I understand. There is some stuff on Gur Khan's blog which has the same pictures in colour too, where he says that the last vehicle is actually called Object 232, but was related to 299 in some manner. He also has pictures, again in colour, of concepts of the 299 IFV (it carried 8 dismounts, 2 crew, and had a robotic turret with some large caliber [57mm?] automatic cannon) and a few other vehicles, but I don't know if it would be polite to post the images here without his permission.
Great stuff thank you for posting.

You're welcome.

It should be taken with a caveat, I do not speak nor read Russian, and I have no primary source documentation to back up the claims. Most of it is just based on people from other web forums and the rest a Google translate filter run on Gur Khan's blog plus knowledge that he can be considered fairly reliable. I suspect one of the members of the forum who speaks Russian, like andrei-bt, would be a much better source to ask about this thing.

Honestly, I just like how the tank looks more than anything. The gunpod is cute. It reminds me of Stryker's gunpod in the profile drawing.

GDLS also developed a concept for the RDF/LT which used their external gun mount (which eventually found a home on the Stryker AGS) and a forward engine. But it has the gunner and commander rotating inside the turret ring not sitting in front of it as in this model. So very unlikely to be a USA proposal.

Are you sure that Expeditionary Tank (from what it sounds like you're describing) was based on RDF/LT, and didn't simply reuse automotive components or something? They were separate contractors, the RDF/LT was a private venture light tank by AAI, Inc. (when it wasn't owned by Textron) and the Expeditionary Tank was a Teledyne/GD joint project using a GD hull and Teledyne turret. The roadwheels of Expeditionary Tank and RDF/LT are quite different, for example. M8 used a Detroit Diesel powerpack, and later M113s appear to have 6V53s which seems have to been a common strand in American light tanks post-Yom Kippur, but I think Expeditionary Tank used a different, Cummins-based powerpack, too.

If you're not talking about the GD/Teledyne tank, then apologies. I'm merely curious because I've never heard of such a radical modification of the RDF/LT hull, although I'm aware AAI tried to market a four-man (three-in-turret) vehicle using the same 76mm cannon to Taiwan to replace their Walker Bulldogs.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2016, 12:36:43 am by Kat Tsun »

Offline Abraham Gubler

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Re: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks
« Reply #67 on: September 11, 2016, 02:54:37 pm »
Yep was referring to the Teledyne GD light tank. And yes the requirement was no longer caĺled the RDF/LT by the time this vehicle was made public. But its a much better name than the later ones. Interstingly GD also sketched a couple of MBTs with the same config, armed with a notional (?) 145mm gun. The 1980s... Stranger Things were known to exist in this decade...
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Offline Kat Tsun

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Re: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks
« Reply #68 on: September 16, 2016, 10:15:56 pm »
We saw Nota and Molot,but has any Ob.477 Bokser prototype been made?

Some sources say that several (2-3) prototypes were built, but others - none.

http://militarium.net/radzieckie-i-ukrainskie-czolgi-nowej-generacji-od-obiekt-450-do-obiekt-477a1-nota/

btvt.narod says one or two vehicles were built, that Object 477 "Hammer" and "Boxer" are apparently the same programs, but Boxer was renamed to Hammer almost immediately due to a leak of information overseas, and possibly before the construction of prototypes began. It may be the grainy, Bigfoot-esque image of Molot is also Boxer, but only because the tank program had been renamed by the time it was built. This was already well covered by Overscan, andrei-bt, and LVisingr, though.

Hammer as built was a KMDB project. Obj 299 and Obj 187 were its competitors, and of the three, the Armor Directorate apparently preferred LKZ's Obj. 299.

Offline Andrei_bt

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Re: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks
« Reply #69 on: October 03, 2018, 11:54:31 am »

Hammer as built was a KMDB project. Obj 299 and Obj 187 were its competitors, and of the three, the Armor Directorate apparently preferred LKZ's Obj. 299.

Actually 299 and 187 appeared after molot and were not it's competitors in Soviet time, but after USSR collapsed Russia madi it's bet on local projects, resilting into T-95.

Offline Andrei_bt

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Offline paralay

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Offline GTX

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Re: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks
« Reply #72 on: December 27, 2018, 10:39:20 am »
Below, in order respective, is the Obj. 299 tank, missile/VLS tank destroyer,

Re the missile/VLS tank destroyer shown, any ideas regarding the missile types planned?

Offline paralay

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Re: Kharkov's Object 490 Buntar, Bokser and Object 477 "Molot" advanced tanks
« Reply #73 on: December 27, 2018, 11:39:48 am »
Most likely, the development of vertical launch missiles did not begin. The main version with a gun 152 mm

object 490B