Register here

Author Topic: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals  (Read 51450 times)

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9468
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2009, 05:51:00 pm »
Engineer Sue Grafton shown with SFW F-16 wind tunnel model.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10307
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2009, 10:56:52 pm »
So this Rockwell design was actually planned to be a fighter unlike the X-29? Did they offer it as an alternative to F-16 for the USAF, or for export sales?

Saberbat was Rockwell's rival design to the Grumman X-29. Probably the hope was not just to build a demonstrator but lead to a production fighter, assuming that the FSW worked well.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9468
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2010, 09:29:04 pm »
Artist's impression of North American D634-20G aka Rockwell International Sabrebat.

URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/NORTH-AMERICAN-D634-20G-JET-AIRCRAFT-FSW-CONCEPT-ART_W0QQitemZ110499251981QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19ba44c70d

Seller's description:
Quote
North American Aviation Aircraft Advanced Technology Demonstrator Concept .

I was fortunate to be able to obtain a number of origional aircraft concept art works from North American Aviation.   I think the work  depicts the North American/Rockwell International G634-20G the rival to the Grumman X-29A  Advanced Technology Demonstrator. The aircraft was wind tunnel tested on a 1/9TH scale model and was a Rockwell Swept Forward Wing competition concept.

The aircraft is shown what I think as defending Pt. Mugu from attack by Mig type aggressors with an AWAC in the upper left.  (Looks like Pt. Mugu when I have flown by the base.)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 10:05:52 pm by Triton »

Offline frank

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 620
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2010, 06:35:03 am »

    Other than the wings, it doesn't look like the other Sabrebat photos. Was this supposed to be a production a/c so different from the single-engined F-16 - like fuselage design?

Offline saintkatanalegacy

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 718
  • Little Miss Whiffologist
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2010, 06:44:22 am »
^note that the last drawings have side mounted intakes
風 Swift as the wind
林 Quiet as the forest
火 Conquer like the fire
山 Steady as the mountain

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10307
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2010, 11:06:00 am »
If you check the posts on page one you will see both chin and side inlets designs. I believe the chin inlet was the definitive proposal.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9468
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2010, 09:46:11 pm »

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9468
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2010, 09:48:21 pm »
Full-size mock-up of Rockwell Sabrebat on cover of Aviation Week & Space Technology February 12, 1979.

Source: http://s277.photobucket.com/albums/kk42/atafsw/?action=view&current=AVWKRockFSW.jpg
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 10:03:06 pm by Triton »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10307
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2010, 04:11:03 am »
Merged topics.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Triton

  • Senior Member
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • **
  • Posts: 9468
  • Donald McKelvy
    • Deep Blue to Wild Blue
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2010, 06:43:07 pm »
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 11:16:58 pm by Triton »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

  • Secret Projects Forum Founder
  • Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • *****
  • Posts: 10307
  • Paul Martell-Mead
    • Secret Projects
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2010, 04:08:14 am »
http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Test_432:_Grumman_Forward_Swept_Wing_(Grafton)

Some nice pics of various X-29 windtunnel models including a variant with the ADEN thrust vectoring nozzle.
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
- Sir Sydney Camm

Offline Matej

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 2617
  • Multiuniversal creator
    • Hitechweb - bizare aviation
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2010, 01:34:34 am »
Ah! So now I realized what it was all about...

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline Skyblazer

  • Global Moderator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 12939
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2010, 02:00:38 am »
A great thread with plenty of really nice images... but the subject of FSW and whether the program was successful or not has not been discussed here. I seem to recall that the X-29 program was found extremely satisfying on the whole. If that is the case, why didn't we see an operational application of FSW in a production aircraft after that? Was it merely a "proof-of-concept" program to show the concept was feasible, with no real intention to apply it operationally, or was it decided that the gains didn't outweigh the drawbacks? I'd like to hear more on the subject, especially when I see such beauties as this imaginary production model of the X-29...

Offline Matej

  • Deputy Administrator
  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ****
  • Posts: 2617
  • Multiuniversal creator
    • Hitechweb - bizare aviation
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2010, 02:25:55 am »
It was not that satisfying. If I remember correctly, the biggest /unsolved/ problems were the vibrations and the warping of the wing tips, especially during the higher speeds. This caused the very high structural stress, what is nothing you want to hear when considering the battle damage resistance.

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline Steve Pace

  • CLEARANCE: Top Secret
  • ***
  • Posts: 2269
  • Aviation History Writer
Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2010, 08:11:53 am »
Here's my humble contribution to the very successful X-29 flight test program prior to the add-on flight tests. It was published in the fall of 1990. McGraw-Hill later procured Aero and TAB Books which destroyed the Aero book series - The X-29s completed a total of 422 test flights without a major mishap - 242 by No. 1, 180 by No. 2



Steve Pace
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 09:25:08 am by XB-70 Guy »
When you know you're right, go ahead.