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Author Topic: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals  (Read 50474 times)

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« on: April 07, 2006, 12:38:25 am »
Rockwell design that competed against the Grumman design that became the X-29. Note the Berkut-alike design, this was an earlier version.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 01:07:34 am by overscan »
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2006, 12:40:38 am »
The first pic above is from Flug-Revue July 1979. It seems that a mockup of the Saberbat was shown at the Paris Airshow 1979. I don't suppose anyone visited  and took photos? ;)

« Last Edit: April 07, 2006, 01:08:17 am by overscan »
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Offline flateric

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2006, 10:05:29 am »
Some more pics
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 08:23:43 pm by overscan »
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Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2006, 10:50:46 pm »
SHAZAM!
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Offline Sundog

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2006, 02:42:58 am »
I just call this design the X-29B because it uses a stretched X-29 fuselage. This was a drawing sent to me way back in 1982 by an engineer at Grumman when I was in high school writing a paper about how I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer. I had written various companies about my report and had asked them to critique my designs I had sent with my letter. Many of them responded and sent me photos and drawings, mostly of existing planes, but the Grumman Engineer sent me this design.

At the time, as you've seen back in these forums, Grumman was studying supercruise canard fighters for the ATF design studies. As such, I am assuming this was a close coupled canard super-cruise demonstrator design study.

Edit 2017-04-25 I corresponded with professor Mason about this design and he said it didn't have anything to do with the X-29, especially if you take the time to notice that it is about fourteen feet longer than an X-29. He said it was from the "Air Force Projects" area of the company.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2017, 05:43:06 pm by Sundog »

Offline TinWing

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2006, 11:01:13 am »
I just call this design the X-29B because it uses a stretched X-29 fuselage. This was a drawing sent to me way back in 1982 by an engineer at Grumman when I was in high school writing a paper about how I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer. I had written various companies about my report and had asked them to critique my designs I had sent with my letter. Many of them responded and sent me photos and drawings, mostly of existing planes, but the Grumman Engineer sent me this design.

At the time, as you've seen back in these forums, Grumman was studying supercruise canard fighters for the ATF design studies. As such, I am assuming this was a close coupled canard super-cruise demonstrator design study.



This strikes me more as an alternative to the contemporary Northrop F-20 "Tigershark," or perhaps as an alternative to the Rockwell/DASA X-31 demonstrator.  The wing area is also very similar to the X-31 - with very high wingloading for a typical canard delta.


Offline consealed

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2006, 05:07:53 am »
I just call this design the X-29B because it uses a stretched X-29 fuselage. This was a drawing sent to me way back in 1982 by an engineer at Grumman when I was in high school writing a paper about how I wanted to be an aeronautical engineer. I had written various companies about my report and had asked them to critique my designs I had sent with my letter. Many of them responded and sent me photos and drawings, mostly of existing planes, but the Grumman Engineer sent me this design.
According your experience you had, you factually are not poor. ;D I can image that pix you sent to so many aeroplane cooporation are realy ahead of the time, so they sent back the photos showed plane, that always be existing. The drawing Grumman sent to you also is conservative.
The key to any great story not is who or what, when or where, but why

Offline TinWing

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #7 on: November 27, 2006, 03:22:51 pm »
I just call this design the X-29B because it uses a stretched X-29 fuselage. This was a drawing sent to me way back in 1982....

This design is covered by U.S. patent 4,417,708, filed on May 12, 1982 and titled "Interchangeable Wing Aircraft."


Offline Sundog

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2006, 09:18:41 pm »
Here's another variation on the X-29 with a BoP style (Weissmann?) wing.

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT5542625&id=l60kAAAAEBAJ&dq=Grumman+aircraft

Offline flateric

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2007, 06:59:12 am »
Genesis of X-29 - first scetch by Nathan Kirschbaum, also shown in artist's rendering here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,106.msg576.html#msg576
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2007, 09:25:16 am »
Source:

Steve Pace, X-29, Aero Series 1991
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Offline Firefly 2

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2007, 05:31:16 am »
Very elegant, I like this! Thanks guys!

Offline italian_o

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2007, 01:37:16 am »
Hello,

I have found a pair of drawings on the never developed project of the F-16 Swept (inverse) wing.



I give a look at a some books on the F-16 but this project was never explained.

Is possible to find detailed drawings or other infos?

Thanks!
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007, 01:39:04 am by italian_o »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2007, 10:00:33 am »
From AIAA paper

83-1833 Application of Forward Sweep Wings to an Air Combat Fighter
B. D. Miller and S. K. Hadley, General Dynamics Fort Worth Division

F-16 SFW competed with Rockwell Saberbat and Grumman G-712 for a DARPA contract for an FSW research aircraft. Several types of design were tested, some including canards.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2007, 10:02:18 am by overscan »
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2007, 10:54:28 am »
Source:

Steve Pace, The Grumman X-29, Aero Series 1991
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Offline Matej

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #15 on: November 26, 2007, 10:13:02 am »
-

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline hesham

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #17 on: December 30, 2007, 10:31:16 am »
Hi,

can anybody recognize this Rockwell FSW aircraft project ?.
http://www.flightglobal.com/PDFArchive/View/1980/1980%20-%200571.html?search=lockheed%20aircraft%20project%201980

Quote
Rockwell proves forward sweep
FORWARD Swept Wing (FSW) technology
by Rockwell has been successfully
demonstrated in windtunnel
tests conducted at Nasa's Langley research
facility. In one series, a 6/10
scale FSW was tested to measure the
wing's ability to withstand aeroelastic
divergence at various Mach numbers
and altitudes. These tests established
that advanced graphite-epoxy
composites could be employed in a
FSW capable of withstanding the
stresses of the high-energy manoeuvring
encountered in combat. Additionally,
verification of analytical
tools required for the development
of a manned FSW demonstrator was
obtained.
The second series of tests involved
aerodynamic force testing in Langley's
8ft pressure tunnel. The test
objective was to determine the aerodynamic
stability and wing efficiency
of the -09 scale force model built
by Rockwell's North American Aircraft
Division. Dick Child, the FSW
project manager, stated that "the
tests were very successful; the results
agreed well with our projections for
this design."
« Last Edit: December 30, 2007, 12:17:09 pm by overscan »

Offline sferrin

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #18 on: January 19, 2008, 02:18:41 pm »
Like the title says.
"DARPA Hard"  It ain't what it use to be.

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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #20 on: March 21, 2008, 03:24:20 am »
Better copy of this pic, found at DVIC.
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Offline Pioneer

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2008, 03:58:08 am »
Was there any specifications /tech data given for the Sabrebat?

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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #22 on: June 22, 2009, 03:29:07 am »
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline saintkatanalegacy

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2009, 07:57:59 am »
i think i like the bottom mounted intake than the side mounted one :)
風 Swift as the wind
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Offline flateric

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2009, 05:26:55 am »
Rockwell's Saberbat ad from 1980
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #25 on: September 10, 2009, 02:08:20 am »
"They can't see our arses for dust."
 
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Offline Triton

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #26 on: October 30, 2009, 04:27:47 pm »
Color photographs of full-scale styrofoam mock-up of Rockwell Sabrebat displayed at the Paris Airshow in 1979.

B&W photograph of full-scale Rockwell Sabrebat mock-up found on Flickr.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/n303wr/3356465527/

Color photograph of full-scale Rockwell Sabrebat mock-up.
http://www.boeing.com/news/frontiers/archive/2009/march/i_history.pdf
« Last Edit: June 27, 2010, 03:08:16 pm by Triton »

Offline Triton

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #27 on: October 30, 2009, 04:38:41 pm »
Photograph of Col. Norris J Krone, Jr., manager of the DARPA forward-swept wing program, pictured with models of the Grumman G-712, General Dynamics SFW F-16, and the Rockwell Sabrebat at his office in Arlington, VA in 1980.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 10:04:23 pm by Triton »

Offline Colonial-Marine

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #28 on: October 30, 2009, 05:23:42 pm »
So this Rockwell design was actually planned to be a fighter unlike the X-29? Did they offer it as an alternative to F-16 for the USAF, or for export sales?
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Offline Triton

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #29 on: October 30, 2009, 05:41:36 pm »
Rockwell International Sabrebat advertisements circa 1980.

Offline Triton

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2009, 05:51:00 pm »
Engineer Sue Grafton shown with SFW F-16 wind tunnel model.

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2009, 10:56:52 pm »
So this Rockwell design was actually planned to be a fighter unlike the X-29? Did they offer it as an alternative to F-16 for the USAF, or for export sales?

Saberbat was Rockwell's rival design to the Grumman X-29. Probably the hope was not just to build a demonstrator but lead to a production fighter, assuming that the FSW worked well.
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Offline Triton

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2010, 09:29:04 pm »
Artist's impression of North American D634-20G aka Rockwell International Sabrebat.

URL: http://cgi.ebay.com/NORTH-AMERICAN-D634-20G-JET-AIRCRAFT-FSW-CONCEPT-ART_W0QQitemZ110499251981QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item19ba44c70d

Seller's description:
Quote
North American Aviation Aircraft Advanced Technology Demonstrator Concept .

I was fortunate to be able to obtain a number of origional aircraft concept art works from North American Aviation.   I think the work  depicts the North American/Rockwell International G634-20G the rival to the Grumman X-29A  Advanced Technology Demonstrator. The aircraft was wind tunnel tested on a 1/9TH scale model and was a Rockwell Swept Forward Wing competition concept.

The aircraft is shown what I think as defending Pt. Mugu from attack by Mig type aggressors with an AWAC in the upper left.  (Looks like Pt. Mugu when I have flown by the base.)
« Last Edit: February 24, 2010, 10:05:52 pm by Triton »

Offline frank

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #33 on: April 06, 2010, 06:35:03 am »

    Other than the wings, it doesn't look like the other Sabrebat photos. Was this supposed to be a production a/c so different from the single-engined F-16 - like fuselage design?

Offline saintkatanalegacy

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #34 on: April 06, 2010, 06:44:22 am »
^note that the last drawings have side mounted intakes
風 Swift as the wind
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #35 on: April 06, 2010, 11:06:00 am »
If you check the posts on page one you will see both chin and side inlets designs. I believe the chin inlet was the definitive proposal.
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Offline Triton

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #36 on: July 28, 2010, 09:46:11 pm »

Offline Triton

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #37 on: July 28, 2010, 09:48:21 pm »
Full-size mock-up of Rockwell Sabrebat on cover of Aviation Week & Space Technology February 12, 1979.

Source: http://s277.photobucket.com/albums/kk42/atafsw/?action=view&current=AVWKRockFSW.jpg
« Last Edit: July 28, 2010, 10:03:06 pm by Triton »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2010, 04:11:03 am »
Merged topics.
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Offline Triton

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #39 on: September 10, 2010, 06:43:07 pm »
« Last Edit: September 10, 2010, 11:16:58 pm by Triton »

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #40 on: September 21, 2010, 04:08:14 am »
http://crgis.ndc.nasa.gov/historic/Test_432:_Grumman_Forward_Swept_Wing_(Grafton)

Some nice pics of various X-29 windtunnel models including a variant with the ADEN thrust vectoring nozzle.
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Offline Matej

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2010, 01:34:34 am »
Ah! So now I realized what it was all about...

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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2010, 02:00:38 am »
A great thread with plenty of really nice images... but the subject of FSW and whether the program was successful or not has not been discussed here. I seem to recall that the X-29 program was found extremely satisfying on the whole. If that is the case, why didn't we see an operational application of FSW in a production aircraft after that? Was it merely a "proof-of-concept" program to show the concept was feasible, with no real intention to apply it operationally, or was it decided that the gains didn't outweigh the drawbacks? I'd like to hear more on the subject, especially when I see such beauties as this imaginary production model of the X-29...

Offline Matej

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #43 on: November 10, 2010, 02:25:55 am »
It was not that satisfying. If I remember correctly, the biggest /unsolved/ problems were the vibrations and the warping of the wing tips, especially during the higher speeds. This caused the very high structural stress, what is nothing you want to hear when considering the battle damage resistance.

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Offline Steve Pace

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #44 on: November 10, 2010, 08:11:53 am »
Here's my humble contribution to the very successful X-29 flight test program prior to the add-on flight tests. It was published in the fall of 1990. McGraw-Hill later procured Aero and TAB Books which destroyed the Aero book series - The X-29s completed a total of 422 test flights without a major mishap - 242 by No. 1, 180 by No. 2



Steve Pace
« Last Edit: November 10, 2010, 09:25:08 am by XB-70 Guy »
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Offline pometablava

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #45 on: November 10, 2010, 10:23:55 am »
Quote
Here's my humble contribution to the very successful X-29 flight test program prior to the add-on flight tests

Steve, I've got a copy in my library :)

Offline Steve Pace

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #46 on: November 10, 2010, 10:26:22 am »
Quote
Here's my humble contribution to the very successful X-29 flight test program prior to the add-on flight tests

Steve, I've got a copy in my library :)
I hope you have enjoyed it.  ;D -SP
When you know you're right, go ahead.

Offline Triton

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #47 on: November 10, 2010, 10:31:23 am »

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #48 on: November 10, 2010, 10:47:30 am »
was it decided that the gains didn't outweigh the drawbacks? I'd like to hear more on the subject, especially when I see such beauties as this imaginary production model of the X-29...

IIRC, the transonic performance was improved but at higher speeds the trend was reversed (compared to conventionally swept wings). Anyone can confirm/deny? Or more simplistically, the actual implementation of new technologies sometime depend more on the strength of their proponents rather than their technical merits. Maybe the people in a position to make decisions were not supporters?
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #49 on: November 10, 2010, 11:08:07 am »
X-29A No. 1 hit 1.48 Mach number - not bad for a wing that was supposed to rip off at such speed. -SP
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #50 on: November 10, 2010, 11:27:17 am »
I have a copy too - a good book.
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #51 on: November 10, 2010, 01:58:43 pm »
What are the ramifications to stealthiness with FSWs?
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #52 on: November 11, 2010, 07:24:28 am »
FSW usually requires a nice leading edge/fuselage fillet to avoid separation problems, so you have some sort of backsweep near the fuselage. I guess you can try to align it with the trailing edge of the opposite wing, but i don't think the end result is as good as having just two edges facing forward as in a conventional backswept configuration. In fact you could end up with a corner reflector!
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #54 on: November 11, 2010, 02:04:57 pm »
Quote
IIRC, the transonic performance was improved but at higher speeds the trend was reversed (compared to conventionally swept wings). Anyone can confirm/deny?
Based on what I know about area-ruling, that could well be the case. If the largest "bulge" in volume distribution is often caused by the wings, then a forward-swept wing aircraft will likely have the bulge closer to the front of the aircraft than in a rearward-swept wing. As mach numbers increase, the ideal shape for reducing wave drag requires a bulge that is closer to the rear. This would make the rearward-swept wing closer to the desired volume distribution and thus have lower wave drag. This would probably be especially true with delta wings.
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #55 on: November 11, 2010, 02:40:15 pm »
the russian counterpart of X-29 !

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Are yet with the enlightenment spirit,
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And accident, inventive God...

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #56 on: November 12, 2010, 02:38:44 am »
Interesting PDF from W.H. Mason who worked on the X-29 while at Grumman.

http://www.aoe.vt.edu/~mason/Mason_f/AnX-29StoryV2.pdf
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #57 on: November 12, 2010, 09:54:26 am »
An illustration of the Rockwell Sabrebat not seen before in this gallery, and another two which were already posted (in smaller size) on page 1, all taken from Daniel P. Raymer's indispensable book: Aircraft Design - A Conceptual Approach, published in 1992 by AIAA.

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #58 on: November 12, 2010, 04:33:29 pm »
Above M=1.7 the structural weight penalty is too great for it to be competitive with conventionally swept wings. It just becomes too heavy. Plus, there are limitations with regard to weapons load out.

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #59 on: November 12, 2010, 07:33:34 pm »
As a general note, area ruling is usually targeted to one flight regime, that is, there is one area distribution that minimizes wave drag at M=1.0 and that is different from that which minimizes drag at M=1.2 or M=1.4.
It used to be that you aimed for min drag at M=1.0 because that's where engine thrust minus airframe drag created a pinch and made acceleration slow, but today's engines have enough thrust to push through that regime and designers optimize the cross sections for higher Mach numbers. I'm pretty sure supercruisers are not optimized for M=1.0.
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #60 on: November 27, 2010, 12:07:47 pm »
Early artist's impression of X-29, from AvWeek.
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #61 on: November 27, 2010, 12:20:10 pm »
Great stuff! It's nice to be scanning those old AW&ST issues. Just one little thing: don't forget to include the date of the article, it really helps!

Offline AeroFranz

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #62 on: November 27, 2010, 02:09:09 pm »
Right! I kept the paper copy, so I should be able to date it more precisely when i get back to my office. For now suffice to say it's between '79 and '81.  ;)
All modern aircraft have four dimensions: span, length, height and politics.   TSR.2 got the first three right - Sir Sydney Camm

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #63 on: December 05, 2010, 12:27:48 pm »
Genesis of X-29 - first scetch by Nathan Kirschbaum, also shown in artist's rendering here
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,106.msg576.html#msg576

Note that this early proposal had the scarfed inlets, arranged to rotate 180 degrees, which can improve the airflow in different angles of attack.

Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline XP67_Moonbat

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #64 on: January 20, 2011, 01:27:30 pm »
Look this is gonna sound real lame, but in a dream I had last night, I spotted what looked like a FSW F/A-18 model on a shelf in a classroom.

When I got up, I still had the plane stuck in my head so I sketched a rough version as best I could. I'm gonna have to refine it as best I can seeing as I had no coffee in me yet when I drew it.

OK, so now the $20 million dollar question.................

Was there ever a FSW F/A-18? Even in just concept form?

I put the question here since we quite don't have an "F/A-18 Hornet projects" thread.

Enquiring minds wanna know!
« Last Edit: January 20, 2011, 01:29:50 pm by XP67_Moonbat »
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #65 on: June 02, 2011, 04:46:13 am »
Was there ever a FSW F/A-18? Even in just concept form?

I put the question here since we quite don't have an "F/A-18 Hornet projects" thread.

Enquiring minds wanna know!

I think the Japanese might have looked at one as part of this particular FSX design study:

Not a 100% sure though!

More on the FS-X studies here: http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,13112.0.html
« Last Edit: February 05, 2013, 08:08:52 am by Grey Havoc »
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Offline fightingirish

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #66 on: September 26, 2011, 02:42:56 am »
Quote
After spending the last 25 years on exhibit at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C., the only full-scale mockup of the famed Grumman-built X-29 aircraft has come home to Long Island. Northrop Grumman Corporation (NYSE:NOC), who designed and built the revolutionary forward swept wing aircraft demonstrator, welcomed the aircraft yesterday to the Cradle of Aviation Museum in Garden City, N.Y.


Source: http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/pages/news_releases.html?d=233186
« Last Edit: October 22, 2011, 05:48:56 pm by flateric »
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2011, 07:19:35 pm »
From http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Cradle_of_Aviation_Welcome_Home_X_29_Aircraft_999.html

Cradle of Aviation Welcome Home X-29 Aircraft

Cradle of Aviation Welcome Home X-29 Aircraft
by Staff Writers
Bethpage NY (SPX) Sep 26, 2011
 
Former X-29 aircraft program supporters and engineers reunited at the Cradle of Aviation Museum, Garden City, N.Y., to welcome back home a mock-up of the forward swept wing aircraft: (From left) Dick Dunne, formerly of Grumman Public Affairs; David Neyland, director, Tactical Technology Office, Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency; Michael Moore, engineer, Advanced Programs and Technology (AP and T), Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems (NGAS); Glenn Spacht, former deputy director of Development on the X-29, and former vice president and chief engineer of Grumman Aerospace; Bob August, program manager, AP and T; Steve Hogan, vice president, Information Operations and Electronic Attack, NGAS; and Andy Parton, executive director, Cradle of Aviation Museum.
After spending the last 25 years on exhibit at the Smithsonian National Air and Space Museum in Washington, D.C., the only full-scale mockup of the famed Grumman-built X-29 aircraft has come home to Long Island. Northrop Grumman, who designed and built the revolutionary forward swept wing aircraft demonstrator, welcomed the aircraft yesterday to the Cradle of Aviation Museum in Garden City, N.Y.

A day-long series of special events were held at the museum for local area students, company employees, retirees and aviation enthusiasts, including a guided tour by Northrop Grumman engineers and a reunion dinner. The company funded the transportation costs for the X-29 with a $5,000 grant to the museum.

"We're honored to accept this incredible aircraft from the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum and add it to our vast collection," said Todd Richman, chairman of the board of the Cradle of Aviation Museum. "We owe Pat McMahon and Northrop Grumman a small debt of gratitude for bringing the X-29 home where it belongs. I hope it amazed our students yesterday and inspires countless generations to come."

A panel discussion was held during the dinner featuring X-29 Program Manager Glenn Spacht, who was also vice president of engineering for Grumman Aerospace at the time of the X-29 program. Joining him was Bob August, manager, Advanced Programs and Technology Division, Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems. August worked on the program immediately following graduation from college.

"Having the X-29 here at the Cradle of Aviation Museum will allow students to learn from the success of this demonstration plane. It will also give them a chance to imagine what the human mind can create next," said Steve Hogan, vice president, information operations and electronic attack, Northrop Grumman Aerospace Systems.

"Whether it is a manned or unmanned aircraft, or other advanced capability we are developing and delivering to our customers, there is nothing more important than demonstrating the value of performance every day to America's troops," he added.

Hogan also introduced the special guest of the evening, David Neyland, director of the Tactical Technology Office at DARPA, the principal agency within the Department of Defense for advanced research and development. DARPA was the original sponsor and a key motivator for the development of the X-29 and its associated flight research program.

"There's a lot of things associated with this airplane that inspired us as a nation in technology and innovation to keep ahead of the other guys. It was the first of its kind in terms of extreme margins of instability on the airplane--instability meaning the aircraft doesn't want to fly in a straight forward direction," Neyland said.

"Now, it's about who builds the next X-29, who builds the next lunar module... There's a real important mission here that I can't understate and that is the 'inspiration' coming from a new generation that's looking forward."

Yesterday, students from Uniondale High School, who are part of the Cradle of Aviation's Science, Technology, Engineering and Math (STEM) Magnet Academy, were some of the first to view the X-29 at the museum. Michael Moore, a Northrop Grumman engineer, who also worked on the X-29 program, guided the tour.

"I'm honored to have had the opportunity to work on the X-29 program and to have had such a terrific career at Northrop Grumman," said Moore. "Every day we are advancing the next generation of technology and that is very exciting. Hopefully I have made the students feel energized about their future potential."

Northrop Grumman supports dozens of programs to foster and expand educational opportunity at all levels. The company, in partnership with the Northrop Grumman Foundation, endorses programs to inspire and encourage student interest in STEM disciplines, funding educational opportunities for students and teachers.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2011, 07:26:42 pm by overscan »
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Offline blackstar

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2011, 08:28:39 pm »
I recently worked with a guy who was a test pilot on that program. He had some interesting things to say about it. Unfortunately, I am hazy on the details, but the gist of it was that people think of the X-29 as a failure because it did not lead to FSW on American combat aircraft. But he said that the view of everybody on the program was that it was actually a success because it really defined what FSW could and could not do, removing a lot of uncertainty and allowing aircraft designers to decide whether or not to use it. It also provided a lot of useful aeronautical data.

Offline fightingirish

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #69 on: February 25, 2012, 08:18:16 am »
A DoD artist sketch pf the Rockwell Sabrebat, found on page 26 in the book "An Illustrated Guide to NATO Fighters and Attack Aircraft" by Bill Guston, Salamander Books 1983.
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2012, 02:16:05 am »
Two more pics of the Rockwell Saberbat mockup from Paris '79, from Italian magazine Aerei (September 1979 issue)  B) 
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Offline southwestforests

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2012, 11:01:55 am »
If the initials of my name are FSW does that mean it was my destiny to be fascinated by FSW aircraft?

later,
Forrest
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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #72 on: June 30, 2012, 01:10:26 am »
If the initials of my name are FSW does that mean it was my destiny to be fascinated by FSW aircraft?

later,
Forrest

Hi Forrest, and welcome! Don't know about "FSW"... Did you sleep with your arms extended forward as a kid? That might be some sort of indication...  ;D
And what of people called, say, "Scott Thomas Digby" or "Sean Tyrone Driggs"?!? Do they have a natural leaning towards venereal diseases?  ::)

Offline kcran567

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #73 on: August 29, 2012, 01:17:44 am »
I don't know... Grumman F-14 + Grumman X-29 = Switchblade fighter-bomber???


Offline fightingirish

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #74 on: September 13, 2012, 01:25:03 pm »


Quote from: northropgrummanmedia
The vibrant work environment at Northrop Grumman that produced the X-29 fighter-class airplane with forward-swept wings 25 years ago is alive today. The Morphing Hybrid Air-Vehicle concept proves that same can-do spirit of pushing the technological envelope still drives Aerospace Systems engineers
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #75 on: November 15, 2012, 12:06:52 am »

[Images from Darold Cummings via Aerofranz in this topic - Admin]
These had nasty Moire effect. This is my quick attempt at restoration. Thanks - excellent info which makes sense of the design history.
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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #76 on: January 04, 2013, 06:26:32 pm »
X-29 inboard profile (Grumman document):

Offline Steve Pace

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #77 on: January 04, 2013, 06:30:01 pm »
Has anybody ever read my X-29 book? - SP
« Last Edit: July 05, 2013, 07:54:00 am by Steve Pace »
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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #78 on: January 04, 2013, 06:43:05 pm »
anybody ever read my x-29 book - sp

I must admit I haven't... When was it published? What publisher?

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #79 on: January 04, 2013, 07:50:59 pm »
Yes indeed, it was excellent work Steve.


The Grumman X-29 - Aero Series 41 - 1990
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Offline Firebee

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #80 on: January 04, 2013, 07:53:26 pm »
anybody ever read my x-29 book - sp

I have, Mr. Pace.  But it was some time ago.  I do still have it stashed away somewhere.  I do recall enjoying it.  This is the book in question in case anyone is interested in tracking it down:
ISBN: 0830634983
« Last Edit: January 05, 2013, 02:05:51 am by pometablava »

Offline foiling

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #81 on: January 05, 2013, 04:54:58 am »
I, too, have a copy. It is a very pleasing & thorough coverage, Mr Pace.
 

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #82 on: January 13, 2013, 03:00:20 pm »
Hello,
I have this book too. It is very old. It is one of the first books I bought on aviation, and I think it contributed a lot to develop my passion for aerospace projects. So thank you very much Mr.Pace, you helped to develop my passion!! :)
Regards
Alain


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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #83 on: January 13, 2013, 03:06:55 pm »
Both of you are very kind! -SP
When you know you're right, go ahead.

Offline alanqua

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #84 on: January 13, 2013, 03:17:55 pm »
uh... no, that's the truth.

Offline blackstar

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #85 on: January 13, 2013, 04:57:34 pm »
There's a NASA book on the X-29 coming out. Dunno the date. I know that the manuscript was sent to some people over a year ago.

Offline c460

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #86 on: June 03, 2013, 01:45:57 am »
Another picture of the Rockwell Sabrebat mock-up at Le Bourget, from Le Moniteur no.30.

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #87 on: July 05, 2013, 12:25:20 am »
Sorry to resurrect...
... but is there a larger or higher definition version of this drawing somewhere?


(from the first page of this thread)

This one is not too bad but I wish I could read the texts too.

Offline Jos Heyman

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #88 on: July 05, 2013, 03:34:07 am »
The Sabre Bat at le Bourget in 1979. (Own photo).

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #89 on: July 05, 2013, 04:14:13 am »
Great photo, shame about the plastic raincoat. You must have owned a nice camera!
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Offline hesham

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #90 on: May 08, 2014, 05:28:05 am »
Early drawing to Grumman X-29,Air International 8/1981.

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #91 on: May 08, 2014, 10:56:03 am »
The NASA book on the X-29 mentioned above by blackstar is available as a free ebook:

http://www.nasa.gov/connect/ebooks/sweeping_forward_detail.html#.U2u_iVfUPMU

And as a print book, US$24 plus post (it is listed at the bottom of the page):

http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/hqlibrary/ic/ic2.htm



Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #92 on: May 08, 2014, 11:10:17 am »
Very nice.
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Offline hesham

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #93 on: May 13, 2014, 09:16:10 am »
From L + K magazine 8/1978,


here is the Gruman G-712 early concept Model.

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Offline hesham

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #95 on: September 22, 2017, 08:43:26 am »
Early artist's impression of X-29, from AvWeek.

The same drawing from Le Fana 147.

Offline Motocar

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Re: Grumman FSW X-29 (G-712) and its rivals
« Reply #96 on: September 23, 2017, 02:56:31 am »
Cutaway Grumman X-29