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Author Topic: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles  (Read 72498 times)

Offline Colonial-Marine

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #240 on: April 23, 2018, 08:45:49 pm »
To me it sort of sounds like the Armored Systems Modernization program before the Future Combat Systems craze.

Personally I don't see the need to incorporate unmanned capability into the primary set of vehicles. Instead I think they should concentrate on smaller unmanned designs to complement the manned designs. That way if the autonomous systems aren't ready on time it won't hold up fielding the NGCV.

Still would like to see a replacement for the M109A7 included in all of this.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedy."

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #241 on: April 24, 2018, 09:09:45 pm »
http://defense-update.com/20180424_yagu_new.html

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Plasan unveiled today it’s all-new, lightweight protected vehicle – Yagu at Expo Seguridad event in Mexico City this week. In fact, plasan transformed the 767 kg commercial Arctic Cat Wildcat 4 1000 four-seat all-terrain vehicle into a 1.48-ton (dry weight) fully-protected assault vehicle.

The vehicle is designed to behave like an All Terrain Vehicle (ATV) but offers its crew of three persons the all-around 360 ballistic protection at a level of B6+ (similar to STANAG 4569 Level II) effective against 5.56X45, 7.62X39 and 7.62×51 threats. WIth front and side windows and all-round cameras the protected capsule provides excellent situational awareness and response, using an overhead ultra-light remotely operated weapon, that mounts a 5.56 or 7.62 machine gun and EO sensors operated by the crew from within the air-conditioned, armored capsule.
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Offline bobbymike

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #242 on: May 01, 2018, 12:41:43 am »
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/04/28/could-armys-quest-leap-ahead-technologies-be-its-undoing.html

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The U.S. Army is locked on a path to replace its tanks, helicopters and other major combat systems -- a daunting venture in itself. But the true challenge for the service may be avoiding the minefield of mistakes that led to the multibillion-dollar demise of another leap-ahead plan, Future Combat Systems, less than a decade ago.

As with FCS, the Army is gambling big on advanced technologies, including some that don't exist yet in an operational form. It's a strategy that service leaders believe will place the Army ahead of its global competitors.

But military modernization experts watching the effort unfold warn that the service must guard against program flaws that have poisoned past dreams of a future force: poor salesmanship, weak leaders, priorities that shift over time, and the Army's true Achilles heel -- the enticement of leap-ahead technology.
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline jsport

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #243 on: May 01, 2018, 07:45:14 am »
Great find Boobymike
https://www.military.com/daily-news/2018/04/28/could-armys-quest-leap-ahead-technologies-be-its-undoing.html

yes most GS13s and LTCs need to be out of decision making loop plus requirements can not be very fluid, but more importantly the
 "535 members on your board of directors -- 100 senators and 435 members of the House" who are protecting contractors who need severe financial repercussions when they break promises is a demand. 

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #244 on: July 01, 2018, 12:50:38 pm »
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/06/28/from-a-bradley-replacement-to-soldier-controlled-robot-swarms-big-moves-coming-with-army-robots/

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Over the next few months, soldiers, scientists and top Army officials will establish how troops will use robots, from a single soldier directing a robot swarm to an optionally-manned Bradley replacement that will control its robot wingman vehicles in future combat formations.

The future of combined ground and air operations for the base of the ground forces, the squads and companies that do the lead fighting from scouts to riflemen, will see automation increased the range and effects of every soldier.

Those pending developments and others involving robotics and automation in scout and infantry units were outlined Wednesday in a conference call with reporters by two officials at the center of everything robot in the Army – Don Sando, deputy to the commanding general of the Maneuver Center of Excellence and John Miller, the deputy director of the Army’s Cross Functional Team that oversees the Next Generation Combat Vehicle, also out of MCOE at Fort Benning, Georgia.
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline jsport

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank
« Reply #245 on: July 28, 2018, 09:34:50 am »
Design a new one?

I don't see how there is much room for improvement over a modernized M8 AGS derivative.

Save the extra belly armor and anti-IED kit for once the thing actually gets to the ground, else I don't see how they'll possibly be able to air-drop it.
Agree  a modernized M8 AGS w/ the 75mm ARES automatic cannon mount which demoed BMD operation seems like easiest Air droppable tank solution.

Offline bobbymike

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #246 on: September 25, 2018, 10:13:50 pm »
https://www.army.mil/article/211236

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WASHINGTON -- While our current combat fleet is composed of very capable vehicles, these vehicles have been in the inventory for decades and their ability to overmatch peer capabilities in close combat is starting to wane. As the Army prepares for future combat operations, it needs new platforms, with future growth margins, to maintain our ability to dominate the battlefield.

This is a challenge for the Next Generation Combat Vehicle Cross-Functional Team, or NGCV CFT, to solve. The NGCV CFT was established as part of the Army's modernization strategy and is currently led by Brig. Gen. Ross Coffman. The team consists of hand-selected military and civilian personnel, who are charged with narrowing or closing Cross Domain Maneuver capability gaps. The team is well supported by Program Executive Office-Ground Combat Systems and Research, Development and Engineering Command leaders and representatives. The CFT serves as the primary Army integrator for Under Secretary of the Army/Vice Chief of Staff of the Army and Army Requirements Oversight Council decision for all supporting analysis, modeling, simulation and technical demonstrations. The NGCV CFT director, on behalf of the USA/VCSA, synchronizes the capability development process, and then rapidly transitions the requirement to a leader-approved capability into the Army Acquisition System.
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

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Offline bobbymike

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #247 on: October 14, 2018, 07:15:58 pm »
https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2018/04/10/these-two-army-bcts-will-be-the-first-to-put-robotic-vehicles-in-their-formations/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=Socialflow+ARM

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The Army’s 101st Airborne Division and 10th Mountain Division will be the first to bring a robotic combat vehicle into their formations later this year.

Bryan McVeigh, project manager for the Army’s Force Protection Robotics Portfolio, laid out the testing and acquisition for the Squad Multipurpose Equipment Transport at the National Defense Industry Association’s Ground Robotics Capabilities Conference Tuesday.

By this summer, the 1st Infantry Brigade Combat Team, 10th Mountain Division of Fort Drum, New York, and the 1st Brigade Combat Team, 101st Airborne Division of Fort Campbell, Kentucky, will get to test the vehicle and provide feedback on what is likely to be the first major autonomous robotic vehicle in Army formations.
Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

Charles W. Eliot

Offline Moose

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #248 on: October 17, 2018, 08:33:35 am »
There was less explicit MPF talk at AUSA than I had expected, partly because NGCV concepts stole the show, but as Defense Maven reported the Army is pushing forward on their accelerated schedule to choose 2 vendors to build representative prototypes, with the goal of a down-select and LRIP by 2025.

The three bidders are still understood to be:
SAIC - Bidding a vehicle combining the the ST Kintetics NGAFV hull with the CMI defense Cockerill 3105 turret, mounting a 105mm gun.
General Dynmaics Land Systems - Bidding an evolution of their "Griffin" concept from 2016, likely still mounting an XM350 120mm gun.
BAE - Bidding an evolution of the M8 Armored Gun System, mounting a 105mm gun.

The Army is pushing pretty heavily for proven vehicles/systems to minimize development risk and accelerate the timetable, which is interesting because all 3 have plusses and minuses in that regard. SAIC's base vehicle is brand new, it's got nearly no track record and hasn't been produced in numbers yet, but the CMI turret is considered a pretty safe prospect. GDLS's base vehicle is pretty safe, being an updated ASCOD/Ajax, and they talk up their use of systems from the latest M1 modernization in the turret, but the turret itself is new and the XM360 only has as much development as it got before the FCS program died. BAE's team can point to the fact that the Army already type classified the M8 and accepted it once, but it was cancelled before production really got underway and has never been deployed operationally and whatever updates BAE has added since the 90s would effect how "proven" it can claim to be.

Personally, I'd like them to send BAE and GDLS to the next phase. SAIC's unproven vehicle and lack of existing production facilities in the US are big potential complications for a program that want to move this quickly.

Offline jsport

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #249 on: October 17, 2018, 03:35:41 pm »
If the M8 BAE is offering can still house troops when needed, it would be great Air-Dropable tank for eventually converting all light divisions into Tank/IFV mobile forces.  None of these vehicles are  "Next Generation".  The South Korean AS 21 Redback and German Lynx are close to NexGen but not really.

Offline bobbymike

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Books are the quietest and most constant of friends; they are the most accessible and wisest of counselors, and the most patient of teachers.

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Offline Moose

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #251 on: October 24, 2018, 08:34:35 am »
If the M8 BAE is offering can still house troops when needed, it would be great Air-Dropable tank for eventually converting all light divisions into Tank/IFV mobile forces.  None of these vehicles are  "Next Generation".  The South Korean AS 21 Redback and German Lynx are close to NexGen but not really.
MPF isn't pursuing "Next Generation" offering, it predates the NGCV umbrella program and is focused on an affordable, off-the-shelf solution. Even OMFV really isn't about a "Next Gen" vehicle so much as a newer, more flexible/up-gradable vehicle than Bradley.

Offline jsport

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #252 on: October 24, 2018, 10:24:33 am »
If the M8 BAE is offering can still house troops when needed, it would be great Air-Dropable tank for eventually converting all light divisions into Tank/IFV mobile forces.  None of these vehicles are  "Next Generation".  The South Korean AS 21 Redback and German Lynx are close to NexGen but not really.
MPF isn't pursuing "Next Generation" offering, it predates the NGCV umbrella program and is focused on an affordable, off-the-shelf solution. Even OMFV really isn't about a "Next Gen" vehicle so much as a newer, more flexible/up-gradable vehicle than Bradley.
Yes, but BAE is still pushing an Next Gen Bradley including such changes as an upgraded turret w/ a larger gun, longer hull version, and a composite hull has been built back in the 90s. ..would have to say the Bradley is quite upgradable if waiting for Nex Gen is the plan.

Offline Moose

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #253 on: October 24, 2018, 10:39:18 pm »
If the M8 BAE is offering can still house troops when needed, it would be great Air-Dropable tank for eventually converting all light divisions into Tank/IFV mobile forces.  None of these vehicles are  "Next Generation".  The South Korean AS 21 Redback and German Lynx are close to NexGen but not really.
MPF isn't pursuing "Next Generation" offering, it predates the NGCV umbrella program and is focused on an affordable, off-the-shelf solution. Even OMFV really isn't about a "Next Gen" vehicle so much as a newer, more flexible/up-gradable vehicle than Bradley.
Yes, but BAE is still pushing an Next Gen Bradley including such changes as an upgraded turret w/ a larger gun, longer hull version, and a composite hull has been built back in the 90s. ..would have to say the Bradley is quite upgradable if waiting for Nex Gen is the plan.
A Bradley which is too greatly changed from the baseline is a new vehicle anyway, so why not have it compete with CV90, Lynx, Griffin, etc? Especially as AMPV offers a route to re-use Bradleys that are discarded if the Army goes with another vehicle.

Offline jsport

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Re: Army Wants 'Air Droppable' Light Tank & Ultra-Light Vehicles
« Reply #254 on: October 25, 2018, 08:29:15 am »
If the M8 BAE is offering can still house troops when needed, it would be great Air-Dropable tank for eventually converting all light divisions into Tank/IFV mobile forces.  None of these vehicles are  "Next Generation".  The South Korean AS 21 Redback and German Lynx are close to NexGen but not really.
MPF isn't pursuing "Next Generation" offering, it predates the NGCV umbrella program and is focused on an affordable, off-the-shelf solution. Even OMFV really isn't about a "Next Gen" vehicle so much as a newer, more flexible/up-gradable vehicle than Bradley.
Yes, but BAE is still pushing an Next Gen Bradley including such changes as an upgraded turret w/ a larger gun, longer hull version, and a composite hull has been built back in the 90s. ..would have to say the Bradley is quite upgradable if waiting for Nex Gen is the plan.
A Bradley which is too greatly changed from the baseline is a new vehicle anyway, so why not have it compete with CV90, Lynx, Griffin, etc? Especially as AMPV offers a route to re-use Bradleys that are discarded if the Army goes with another vehicle.
This seems like a battle between BAE NexGen Bradley and GD Griffin 3/ soon 4. Until Griffin is full developed as a genuinely Nex Gen Veh (able to carry 9 w/ exoskeleton/Talos suit) then a common AMPV/Bradley baseline would seem to make most sense.

PS: The CV90 doesn't seem serious, as is too small. (Americans are too large for that vehicle.) Lynx is also a foreign vehicle and foreign dependence is not in vogue these days