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Author Topic: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers  (Read 131143 times)

Offline Antonio

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #15 on: June 27, 2007, 01:44:21 pm »
Excellent pics, thanks for posting Gollevainen.
The Ivan-Tarawa is new for me, can you give more details about it (project name and date)?


Offline KCX

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #16 on: June 27, 2007, 06:37:50 pm »
Excellent pics, thanks for posting Gollevainen.
The Ivan-Tarawa is new for me, can you give more details about it (project name and date)?


As far as I know, it's Project 11780 landing ship. (I refer it as LPH.)

http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,766.15.html

Offline gollevainen

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #17 on: June 27, 2007, 10:56:15 pm »
Well the pr. 11780 is somewhat mystical becouse all we know about it is basicly the project number and that it is some sort of landingship. Some rumours tells that its based on the Khalzan program but the latter was ASW helicopter carrier based on containership hull...

« Last Edit: June 28, 2007, 04:07:30 am by pometablava »

Offline gollevainen

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #18 on: June 28, 2007, 02:36:26 am »
To add for the list, here's a shipbucket drawing that I made from Khalzan. I'm planning to draw the other soviet "what-if" carriers in similar way alongside my eternityproject of drawing all the soviet ships. If you have linedrawings of rare soviet ships (I mean rare, I already have the most ususals) feel free to send them to me...


Offline Antonio

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #19 on: June 28, 2007, 02:53:04 am »
Quote
I'm planning to draw the other soviet "what-if" carriers

Gollevainen, the drawing represents an unbuilt project (real design) or a "what-if" (not real, design based on fan's imagination)?


Offline gollevainen

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #20 on: June 28, 2007, 03:33:17 am »
Well both actually. First I draw the unbuild projects as close as possiple to the exiting data and availble reference pics (like Khalzan here) but also various "what-ifs" eg. my own ideas mainly intended for my imaginary Novgorod's fleet which I've created based on never-where and unbuild soviet ships. I will post the "what-ifs" other occasion (as soon as I'm finished it) so all the drawings that I may post in this thread are from real existing designs.


« Last Edit: June 28, 2007, 04:07:57 am by pometablava »

Offline Meteorit

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2007, 02:44:53 pm »
Where did the Pr.11780 drawing go?  ???
I hadn't yet saved it.  :'(
It certainly was a real Soviet project. (I'll post some info later on.)

Offline gollevainen

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2007, 12:38:03 pm »
There wasen't drawing on 11780, only from the Khalzan which also was a real soviet project. I just posted it accidentaly twice...

Offline Meteorit

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #23 on: July 01, 2007, 05:53:44 am »
Okay. I was, eh, in a hurry when I first saw you posts and thought I'd save the pictures in the evening at home - but then the other one had disappeared. I hadn't looked into them closely, also the board's automatic image resizing didn't really help...  :-[  :)

Anyway, here's what I have of Pr.11780. Info comes from Google cache of a Russian forum that both have now vanished, from http://forums.airbase.ru/viewtopic.php?id=52349, and from looking at the pictures.

Pr.11780 (Kremenchug ?)

The Pr.11780 was designed in the mid-1980s as a follow-on to the Pr.1174 landing ships, utilizing also design elements from the Pr.10200 and Pr.1143.4 carriers. The ship resembled the American Tarawa class, and was thus sometimes called "Ivan Tarava". The Pr.11780 was a development of the Pr.10200 ASW helicopter carrier. The number of SAM launchers was increased, and the ability to handle V/STOL aircraft was added. The ship had a well deck with bow and aft ramps. The Murena class LCACs were designed for carriage by the Pr.11780. It was to use the boiler and turbine arrangement from Pr.956 destroyers.

Displacement full load, tons: 44,000
Flight deck length, metres: 200
Flight deck width, metres: 25

Missiles:
12 SA-N-9 Gauntlet (RZ-130 Kinzhal) vertical launchers.
2 CADS-N-1 (Kortik).
Guns:
1 AK-130 130 mm/70.
Helicopters:
12 Ka-27/29 Helix.

Air/surface search:
Top Plate (MR-760 Fregat-MA)
Navigation:
3 Palm Frond (Volga)
Fire control:
Cross Sword (MR-360 Podkat)
Kite Screech (MR-123-02)
Tacan:
Cake Stand

Offline gollevainen

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2007, 06:47:51 am »
That makes sense. Tough the lenght 200m sounds bit too small given the displacement and the fact that Khalzan is almoust 230 meters and this design looks even bigger.

A full size drawing of the Khalzan can be found on Mconrads http://s90.photobucket.com/albums/k279/shipbucket/ site.

If anyone have a linedrawing of the pr. 11780, please send it to me so I can draw similar image from it as well...

Offline Firefly 2

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2007, 02:46:07 am »
Why is it that every Russian carrier design I've seen always comes whit its own set of heavy anti ship missiles? Did the " everything missile" dogma imposed by Chroetsjov have such a long reach?

Offline flateric

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2007, 03:41:38 am »
Very often in a history of Soviet/Russian shipbuilding (for example, in case of Project 1144 Orlan aka Kirov) such amount of strike weapons onboard caused not by actual fleet needs, but by wish of multiply contractors to have their weapon system(s) be installed on a new ship.
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Firefly 2

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #27 on: August 05, 2007, 05:55:39 am »
Even though they are made redundant because of a fixed wing strike element, gotcha...

Offline gollevainen

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #28 on: September 21, 2007, 04:03:40 am »
Here's 1153...I propaply should have posted this earlier.

The armament fit is bit optional as I had quite hard time to figure out xactly what was to be fitted to it. The existing linedrawing didn't give much help, it raised more questions than gave awnsers and the pictures of the model were too misty to make anything reasonable out of it. As the drawing is based on the idea that the first 1153 would have been build around the time of the Novorossisk or Baku (The ttz was ade around 1972-3) I adopted pretty much the same armament fit as in those two ships including Kinzhal but not Kortiks.


Offline Triton

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Re: Russian and Soviet Aircraft Carriers
« Reply #29 on: September 05, 2009, 09:44:38 pm »
To Be or Not To Be: The Development of Soviet Deck Aviation by Vadim Kolnogorov, of the Central Naval Museum in St. Petersburg, is a very interesting history of Soviet Navy aircraft carriers.
http://yurizhukov.com/files/CWaS_339-359_soviet_naval_aviation.pdf
« Last Edit: September 06, 2009, 12:05:02 pm by Triton »