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Author Topic: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes  (Read 14497 times)

Offline blackkite

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Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« on: April 05, 2013, 03:02:51 pm »
Kayaba Katsuodori ramjet interceptor was a Kayaba's private project planned in 1943.
Second picture shows Unicraft model's Katsuodori.
http://www.unicraft.biz/on/kayaba/kayaba.htm


Span : 9.0 m, Length :4.5 m, Wing Area :13.50 , Wing sweep back angle :25.5 °, Gross weight :3000 kg, Empty weight : 800 kg,
Main engine : ramjet engine,M 0.3;300 kg,M 0.5;550 kg, (M 0.60.9;750 kg, Take off engine : Rocket engine : thrust 7200kg,
Maximum speed ;900 km/h, Service ceiling ;15000 m, Climb time ;3minutes/10,000 m, Endurance ; 30 min, Range ;400 km,
Armaments ; 30 mm cannon×2
 
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 04:11:39 pm by blackkite »

Offline hesham

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2013, 03:13:08 pm »
My dear Blackkite,


in 2006 a friend sent to me this Kayaba Katsoudori 3-view drawing picture,but
it has a different cockpit.



Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2013, 03:26:01 pm »
Hi my dear hesham. Thanks for rare 3 side view of Katsuodori.
Katsuodori 3 side view which I posted was from following Japanese site. ;) 
Every 3 sides which I found were different.

http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~FlyWing/JapaneseTaillessPlane/Kayaba-4.html
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 03:30:06 pm by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2013, 03:36:08 pm »

MENG MODEL's Katsuodori.
The nose is little strange? 
http://www.meng-model.com/JP/index2_new.php?id=181
« Last Edit: April 05, 2013, 03:49:32 pm by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 04:05:36 pm »
Katsuodori means gannet.

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2013, 04:10:36 pm »
Some additional info about Kayaba 4 please?

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2013, 04:12:49 pm »
 Kayaba Type 4 flying wing  Aircraft
The Kayaba factory started the development of Kayaba type 4 aircraft as a reply to the request from the army aviation technology research institute of "To manufacture a flying wing light aircraft with engine", and the wind tunnel test by Hidemasa Kimura of Aviation Research Institute of Tokyo Imperial University showed good characteristic of type 4 aircraft.
The mock-up was carried forward in the Ito airplane factory, and the drawing completed at the end of April, 1941. It is a single-seater plane with a Gypsy major engine (120 HP).
Since it is not described by recollection of Mr. Shiro Kayaba, but perhaps the development started in 1940. Although the relation between type 4 and type 2 or 3 are also unknown, but it's difficult to install engine to type 2 or the type 3 aircraft, new design as type 4 aircraft was needed.
In addition, although type 4 aircraft had a engine, the IJA gave the name Ku-4 which means the IJA's glider. Moreover true or not, in Mr. Kayaba's reminiscences, once the name Ki-60 was assigned to type 4 aircraft, temporally overlapped with Kawasaki Ki-60.
The army aviation technology research institute made an attitude turn one's coat taking account of the type 2 accident in Tachikawa on May 10, 1941 after type 4 aircraft's drawing completion.
The IJA grudged experimental manufacturing cost of 100,000 yen(about 7 million USD now) for type 4 aircraft.

It seems that that the budget of the test prototype was reduced since priority was given to the actual weapon aircraft development and production. The accident of type 2 was only a cause.
The type 4 aircraft finished after all, without being manufactured, and since it was difficult also as a Kayaba factory to further development at its own expense from the first, the flying wing aircraft series of Kayaba suffered a setback.
Although 17,000 yen is provided as type 1 through type 3 aircraft manufacture expense from the army aviation technology research institute, but it was large in the red as Kayaba.

Span ; 9.8m(same asa type 2 aircraft), Length ; 3.42m, Height ; 1.86m(except propeller), Wing area ; 13.3 square meter, Dihedral ; 6 degree, Wing sweep back angle ; 26.5 degree, Gross weight ; 650kg, Empty weight ; 515kg, Maximum speed ; 180km/h, Cruising speed ; 150km/h, Endurance ; 2hours, Range ; 300km
Source ; internet
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 08:38:26 am by blackkite »

Offline Retrofit

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #7 on: April 06, 2013, 12:27:23 am »
Thanks Blackkite for the information on the Ku-4!
I have a question concerning the Kayaba Ku-2:
The only photo I found of this glider seems to show a straight (or very slightly swept) wing (or perhaps it's a visual distorsion). But a 3V drawing published in a post-war US Air Technical Intellingence Report shows a clearly swept wing.
Is there some confirmation about the type of wing used on the Ku-2 (or more photos of this glider available)?
 

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2013, 01:16:18 am »
Thanks Blackkite for the information on the Ku-4!
I have a question concerning the Kayaba Ku-2:
The only photo I found of this glider seems to show a straight (or very slightly swept) wing (or perhaps it's a visual distorsion). But a 3V drawing published in a post-war US Air Technical Intellingence Report shows a clearly swept wing.
Is there some confirmation about the type of wing used on the Ku-2 (or more photos of this glider available)?
Ok! I will check it. Give me time.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2013, 01:17:10 am »
 Kayaba Katsuodori
Kayaba Katsuodori was a fighter plane for high altitude interception which the Kayaba factory planned. The Kayaba  factory had been developing the flying wing reaction engine aircraft gaining assistance of the IJA from 1936, and the final objective was Katsuodori.
Although Kayaba manufactured the non-power glider for checking the aerodynamic characteristic of the aircraft, the test pilot of the army side who did not understand the operation characteristic of a flying wing aircraft causes an accident during a test, and development is stopped.
In addition, Hidemasa Kimura famous designer who developped YS-11, etc. took charge of series of Kayaba gliders made as an experiment.
Katsuodori had a sweep back wing with comparatively high aspect ratio and had the vertical stabilizer which attached the rudder at the wing tip.
Kayaba type 1 ram jet engine(thrust ; 750kg) was installed in the fuselage, and the drop type two sets takeoff promotion rocket (total thrust ; 7200 kg) were located each side of the fuselage.
Probably a rocket performs a takeoff and initial acceleration, and it seems that the ram jet engine would be scheduled to be put into operation in the place which reached the speed that sufficient ram pressure is generated. Armaments were 30mm unreacted cannons located in the wing.
Neverthleess having Shusui comparable performance (maximim speed ; 900 km/h, service ceiling ; 15000m), special rocket fuel/engine like Shusui and complicated turbine engine like Kikka were not needed. Katsuodori was a ideal interceptor at the day.
Probably, military-power-izing was possible in 1945, when developped earnestly.
 
Source ; internet
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 08:39:13 am by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2013, 01:51:07 am »
Hi Retrofit!
Are these pictures what you need?
Some document says that the sweep back angle of Ku-2 wing was 25.5 degree.
Also some document says that Ku-2 was for a fighter, Ku-3 was for a long range twin engine aircraft.

Ku-2 specification.
Span ; 9.8 m, Length ; 3.04 m, Wing root chord length ; 1.8 m, Wing tip chord length ; 0.75 m, Wing sweep back angle ; 25.5 °, Wing area ; 14.5 ㎡, Vertical stabilizer total area ; 2.323 ㎡, (Rudder area)1.380 ㎡, Empty weight ; 124 kg, Wing loading ; 13.4 kg/㎡, (pilot weight ; 70kg)Best gliding speed ; 75 km/h
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 02:19:04 am by blackkite »

Offline Retrofit

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2013, 01:58:59 am »
Definitively swept wings...
Thanks a lot Blackkite for those photos!

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2013, 02:20:15 am »
Not at all Retrofit. ;)
 Do you hava Ku-3 pictures?

Offline Retrofit

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2013, 02:53:24 am »
Not at all Retrofit. ;)
 Do you hava Ku-3 pictures?
Just this one I found on internet (but no valid 3V drawing):
 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 03:24:17 am by Retrofit »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2013, 04:09:49 am »
Thanks! Super. :D
« Last Edit: April 06, 2013, 04:20:50 am by blackkite »

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2013, 06:18:43 am »
Thanks! :)

Offline hesham

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2013, 06:27:34 am »
Some additional info about Kayaba 4 please?


Hi,


the Kayaba 4,in a clear drawing.

Offline Johnbr

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2013, 12:15:38 pm »
Found this

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2013, 02:33:24 pm »
Wow! Thanks for sharing us. :o
What a complicated wing shape.
I understand that Kayaba type 4 was Ku-4.

Kayaba type 3
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~FlyWing/JapaneseTaillessPlane/Kayaba-3.html
Kayaba type 1
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~FlyWing/JapaneseTaillessPlane/Kayaba-1.html
Kayaba type 2
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~FlyWing/JapaneseTaillessPlane/Kayaba-2.html

Following pictures shows Kayaba H.K. type aircraft. It's perhaps Kayaba type 1 aircraft.
H.K. means Hidemasa Kimura, the designer of this aircraft.
Source
http://vsha.jp/page99.php
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 05:13:21 pm by blackkite »

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2013, 06:51:19 am »
Fabulous stuff blackkite! First time I've seen the Ku-10. Thanks a lot!  :)

Offline windswords

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2013, 02:39:33 pm »
If you look at the 3 view diagrams and other pictures of the Katsudori it doesn't look like there is enough room in the aircraft for both the air intake and the cockpit. Does anyone have a drawing of the internal layout?
Frank

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2013, 04:16:28 pm »
Hi! Sorry for poor one.
Star! I'm very happy that you enjoyed my post. :)
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 04:25:02 pm by blackkite »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2013, 09:23:07 pm »
Cannot really interpret the boxart/artist impression in relation to the pilots position,
but that thing above the engine intake is a lounger for the prone pilot ?
Otherwiese he could only have had a "Münchhausen" like ride on that engine.  ;)
(picture from http://euro-med.dk/billeder/billederbaronmuenchhausen-hansalbers29.jpg )
« Last Edit: April 09, 2013, 09:27:12 pm by Jemiba »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2013, 09:33:51 pm »
Cannot really interpret the boxart/artist impression in relation to the pilots position,
but that thing above the engine intake is a lounger for the prone pilot ?
Otherwiese he could only have had a "Münchhausen" like ride on that engine.  ;)
(picture from http://euro-med.dk/billeder/billederbaronmuenchhausen-hansalbers29.jpg )
HA,HA.... Thanks Jens!
Next picture from MENG MODEL. I wonder the ground clearance.
Is it launching position?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 01:31:59 am by blackkite »

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2013, 01:33:36 am »
Next picture from MENG MODEL. I wonder the ground clearance.
Is it launching position?

Certainly, at least, as long, as the Ki-67 wouldn't have used the Katsudori landing gear !  ;)
(the line beneath the side view marks the ground clearance)
I think, it would have been retracted into the bomb bay, just as in the case of the G4M with the
Okha, but not simply dropped, but lowered with a rack to start the engine prior to launch.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2013, 01:50:26 am »
Thanks again Jens.
Please enjoy one of the artisitc impression of Ku-6 gliding tank and Antonov A40.
Sorry for off topic again. ;D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antonov_A-40
http://noboland.web.fc2.com/kisote02.htm
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 04:56:27 am by blackkite »

Offline lark

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2013, 07:26:58 am »
The configuration of the Ku-6 tank glider
is not that clear it seems...?

Offline Madoc

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2013, 11:44:45 am »
So, any further information on the cockpit position?
 
The Meng model places a turbine blade disk immediately inside the nose inlet.  While being entirely wrong for a ramjet, leaving it off would reveal the unfaired cockpit tub assembly.  I originally though the large hump behind the cockpit was actually part of the cockpit - this, much like the Skoda Kauba SK P.14.01.  But apparently, the pilot's position was not prone and thus the inlet had to have been trunked around the cockpit "tub."
 
Any further details on what that might've looked like?
 

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #28 on: April 10, 2013, 03:59:47 pm »
The configuration of the Ku-6 tank glider
is not that clear it seems...?
Yes it is.
But perhaps the wings of No.1 picture and No.5 picture were very hard to have enough wing root strength for bending moment due to lift.
These wing shape need heavy weight large flange and many bolts at the wing root. It took many time to remove the wing from the tank.
And thanks Madoc. ;)
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 04:08:40 pm by blackkite »

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #29 on: April 10, 2013, 04:50:17 pm »
Katsuodori was a ram jet fighter which the Kayaba factory developed independently. The Kayaba factory began to develop the ram jet engine from 1937 and the design of the ram jet engine was completed in 1943. Katsuodori flying wing fighter was designed to have this ram jet engine. The wing of Katsuodori was a swept wing based on the wing of the Ku 2 type glider, and the vertical tail was attached to the both-wings tip. The ram jet engine which was the main power was stored in the fuselage, take the air from the nose of the aircraft, and discharged combustion gas from the tail of the aircraft. The auxiliary power for putting a ram jet engine into operation was the gunpowder rocket attached to the both sides of the fuselage. The gunpowder rocket consisted of a total of four of every two right and left. When Katsuodori departs, first, every one right and left and a total of two gunpowder rockets were lit, and it takes off, and drops these two gunpowder rockets burned out 5 seconds afterward. When the two remaining gunpowder rockets were lit simultaneously and these two gunpowder rockets were burned out 10 seconds afterward, the speed of fighter plane arrived at Mach 0.3 order. At this time, Katsuodori lights a ram jet engine, go abruptly up to an altitude of 10000 meters, and it glides when air battle, and returns to a base. The climbing time up to 10000 meters was short and the battle time in 10000 meters was 30 minutes, Katsuodori was far advantageous compared with Shusui rocket fighter. When Katsuodori was put in practical use, it must have become an epoch-making interceptor. However, although the mechanism was easy, the ram jet engine needed delicate operation for operation, and in order to put in practical use, there were many problems which must be solved. Since Katsuodori did not have the prospect of the budget, it did not realized.
Source ; All the Experimental Aircrft in Japanese Army. ISBN978-4-87357-233-8
« Last Edit: April 10, 2013, 05:14:51 pm by blackkite »

Offline T-50

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #30 on: February 27, 2015, 02:17:02 pm »
Katsuodori was a ram jet fighter which the Kayaba factory developed independently. The Kayaba factory began to develop the ram jet engine from 1937 and the design of the ram jet engine was completed in 1943. Katsuodori flying wing fighter was designed to have this ram jet engine. The wing of Katsuodori was a swept wing based on the wing of the Ku 2 type glider, and the vertical tail was attached to the both-wings tip. The ram jet engine which was the main power was stored in the fuselage, take the air from the nose of the aircraft, and discharged combustion gas from the tail of the aircraft. The auxiliary power for putting a ram jet engine into operation was the gunpowder rocket attached to the both sides of the fuselage. The gunpowder rocket consisted of a total of four of every two right and left. When Katsuodori departs, first, every one right and left and a total of two gunpowder rockets were lit, and it takes off, and drops these two gunpowder rockets burned out 5 seconds afterward. When the two remaining gunpowder rockets were lit simultaneously and these two gunpowder rockets were burned out 10 seconds afterward, the speed of fighter plane arrived at Mach 0.3 order. At this time, Katsuodori lights a ram jet engine, go abruptly up to an altitude of 10000 meters, and it glides when air battle, and returns to a base. The climbing time up to 10000 meters was short and the battle time in 10000 meters was 30 minutes, Katsuodori was far advantageous compared with Shusui rocket fighter. When Katsuodori was put in practical use, it must have become an epoch-making interceptor. However, although the mechanism was easy, the ram jet engine needed delicate operation for operation, and in order to put in practical use, there were many problems which must be solved. Since Katsuodori did not have the prospect of the budget, it did not realized.
Source ; All the Experimental Aircrft in Japanese Army. ISBN978-4-87357-233-8

this topic is as usually very awesome blackkite san! Idid not know that Japan als was working on a ramjet type engine.and this has a advantage compared with a rocket engine!
The Katsuodori was if it was build the first ramjet fighter ever much better than the Messerschmidt ME-163,who has a combat time of 5 minutes compared with the Katsuodori who's combat time was 30 minutes!
If the Germans possessed this design the US having a bad time above Europe and if the Japanese having this plane on time much more B-29s meet their end on Japanese soil

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #31 on: February 27, 2015, 02:28:28 pm »
Thanks T-50 san. :)

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #32 on: February 27, 2015, 02:31:45 pm »
I have one question here: were Kayaba and Maeda the same company, as the recent regrouping of certain posts seems to imply?

Thanks for your help.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #33 on: February 27, 2015, 02:45:06 pm »
I think that I mistook the topic destination to which I should post.

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Kayaba Projects and Prototypes
« Reply #34 on: February 28, 2015, 12:48:15 am »
Well, to err is just human !  ;)
Tried to clean up this thread, all posts, that aren't about Kayaba types and projects
should be in thgis thread now http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,4357.0.html,
nothing's deleted, nothing's lost !
If there are still posts to posts to move, just tell me, please
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...