Interesting escape concepts.
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Jemiba said:
In fact, quite a bulky design, carrying the main function: to prevent possible entering/diversion pilot in the area of the propeller blades.
Such an option had rescue on aircraft "D" http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,2478.0/ post#3
Borovik is right, the issue here was how bail out of an aircraft without an ejection seat and not get sucked into the Cuisinart prop. To us today, an ejection seat seems like an obviously simpler solution, but this design predates anything like a practical production ejection seat.
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Could be from the same time, as the Martin Baker swinging arm, which probably had lesser
impact to the structure (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1893.msg55534.html#msg55534
#41). But of course, it was a concept, an idea, that still hadn't come to maturity.
impact to the structure (http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,1893.msg55534.html#msg55534
#41). But of course, it was a concept, an idea, that still hadn't come to maturity.
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I know that the Tupolev Tu-95MS (on all Tu-95/Tu-142 variants ?) had a ribbed conveyor belt for crew escape (http://www.bearflighttoliberty.com/BEARFTL%20TU-95%20RTs%20BEAR%20D%20PHOTOS%20ENG%201.htm - for images - the third one in colour is the best).
The pilots and crew of Tupolev Tu-95 did not wear wear parachutes, they sat on them during missions. In case of emergency escape from the aircraft, the crew put on their parachutes, sat on the conveyor, and were taken through an open hatch leave the plane.
The pilots and crew of Tupolev Tu-95 did not wear wear parachutes, they sat on them during missions. In case of emergency escape from the aircraft, the crew put on their parachutes, sat on the conveyor, and were taken through an open hatch leave the plane.
How did that work in practice? Press a big red button, hatch blows, and conveyor belt starts moving? Seems very odd.
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This Stanley B-58 Escape Capsule model is on display at the Fort Worth Aviation Museum in Fort Worth, Texas ( http://www.facmuseum.org/home1.aspx ). It is about 6" tall and in a case with other B-58 items.
At the Lone Star Flight Museum in Galveston, Texas, there was a B-58 Escape Capsule on display along with the B-58 that used to be on display at Carswell AFB. Galveston suffered severe damage from hurricane Ike a few years ago and although the museum was not destroyed, it had 8' of salt water inside it and a lot of very nice stuff was immersed and severely damaged or destroyed. They were three blocks from the beach in Galveston and to greatly reduce the chance of being flooded again, they are in the process of moving far inland to Ellington AFB.
At the Lone Star Flight Museum in Galveston, Texas, there was a B-58 Escape Capsule on display along with the B-58 that used to be on display at Carswell AFB. Galveston suffered severe damage from hurricane Ike a few years ago and although the museum was not destroyed, it had 8' of salt water inside it and a lot of very nice stuff was immersed and severely damaged or destroyed. They were three blocks from the beach in Galveston and to greatly reduce the chance of being flooded again, they are in the process of moving far inland to Ellington AFB.
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Thanks Hesham.
Another place I've seen escape system models is the New England Air Museum ( http://www.neam.org/index.php ) at the Bradley Airport in Windsor Locks, Connecticut. I believe the models were from Republic and were in a display in the fighter aircraft building.
Another place I've seen escape system models is the New England Air Museum ( http://www.neam.org/index.php ) at the Bradley Airport in Windsor Locks, Connecticut. I believe the models were from Republic and were in a display in the fighter aircraft building.
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Video of the B-58 Ejection System in supersonic testing. A great deal of close detail of the capsules can be seen. Possibly the first ever instance of supersonic "Bears". Note the mission markings applied to the test aircraft.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KLnqorLgDM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-KLnqorLgDM
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Yes, these were two escape concepts from Boeing from the mid 90's.
But in these concepts Boeing just focused on a cockpit with an ejector seat and rescue capsule, not the fighter itself.
Link: Secret Projects Forum » Secret Projects » Postwar Aircraft Projects » Interesting escape concepts
But in these concepts Boeing just focused on a cockpit with an ejector seat and rescue capsule, not the fighter itself.
Link: Secret Projects Forum » Secret Projects » Postwar Aircraft Projects » Interesting escape concepts
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Again,here is the escaping pilots from Rockwell B-1,page 52;
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=iNQDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Popular+Mechanics+Jan+1972&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sAsSVOm6Cs2wPM3JgLAO&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=iNQDAAAAMBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=Popular+Mechanics+Jan+1972&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sAsSVOm6Cs2wPM3JgLAO&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false
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Re: Interesting escape concepts - early British designs- Malcolm.
The 'Malcolm Hood' fitted to Spitfires and early Mustangs amongst other types is better known, but Malcolm and Lobelle also produced four types of ejection seat in the late 40's, two manual, two automatic, broadly equivalent to the Martin Baker Mk1 & Mk2.
The late Graham Carter produced an excellent book 'ML Aviation Ltd - A Secret World', still in print from Keyham Books, which gives most of the history associated with Malcolm Ejection seats, and the competition between ML and Martin Baker.
The Malcolm Mk1, and possibly the Mk 2, were flown in the five Hawker prototype jets P.1040 - P.1081, which spawned the Sea Hawk and eventually the Hunter. One survives in P.1052 VX272 at Cobham Hall Yeovilton, see photos from my visit. They are also believed to have flown in some Westland prototypes (Wyvern?)
Does anyone out there have drawings traceable to ML, or contemporary photos not already published, of the Malcolm seats?
The 'Malcolm Hood' fitted to Spitfires and early Mustangs amongst other types is better known, but Malcolm and Lobelle also produced four types of ejection seat in the late 40's, two manual, two automatic, broadly equivalent to the Martin Baker Mk1 & Mk2.
The late Graham Carter produced an excellent book 'ML Aviation Ltd - A Secret World', still in print from Keyham Books, which gives most of the history associated with Malcolm Ejection seats, and the competition between ML and Martin Baker.
The Malcolm Mk1, and possibly the Mk 2, were flown in the five Hawker prototype jets P.1040 - P.1081, which spawned the Sea Hawk and eventually the Hunter. One survives in P.1052 VX272 at Cobham Hall Yeovilton, see photos from my visit. They are also believed to have flown in some Westland prototypes (Wyvern?)
Does anyone out there have drawings traceable to ML, or contemporary photos not already published, of the Malcolm seats?
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One odd thing about the Natter ejection system is that harness is the "Salvatore" pattern only worn by Italian and German paratroopers and only during WW2. Late in WW2 the Luftwaffe tried to replace their paratroopers' harnesses with more conventional "Irvin" style harnesses that held the pilots' spines vertical. Most WW2 aircrew (all combatants) wore Irvin style parachute harnesses.
As for Do335 pilots loosing their arms .... Limb flail and limb loss are recurring problems with all types of ejection seats. Just supersonic wind is enough to rip off an arm! Then the G-forces of a tumbling airplane spinning out of control, finally the jolt as the seat launches up the rails can all tear limbs off.
ML Aviation introduced a face-curtain early on with two red rope handles to pull the curtain down over the pilots' face and initiate the ejection sequence. The USNavy continued to use face-curtains for many decades.
Meanwhile the USAF preferred activation handles down beside the Polly's knees. Some USAF seats incorporate side curtains to tuck the pilot's arms in during ejection.
Finally, CF-104 pilots wore "ejection spurs " to pull their feet back against the front edge of the seat pan and prevent them from being sliced of by the instrument panel.
Most modern ejection seat handles are down between the pilot's knees, tucking arms inboard to further reduce the risk of limb flail.
The AEROCAB projects started towards the end of the Viet Nam War, when the USAF, USN and USMC were losing significant numbers of aircrew over Hanoi. If captured they were tortured and became (very expensive) diplomatic trading chips. All the AEROCAB proposals were designed to fly then 50 miles east where they could parachute into the South China Sea beside USN warships.
Circa 1990, the USN drop-tested a square, Jalbert type parachute (similar to what modern skydivers wear) for an ejection seat, but that project died for political reasons.
As for Do335 pilots loosing their arms .... Limb flail and limb loss are recurring problems with all types of ejection seats. Just supersonic wind is enough to rip off an arm! Then the G-forces of a tumbling airplane spinning out of control, finally the jolt as the seat launches up the rails can all tear limbs off.
ML Aviation introduced a face-curtain early on with two red rope handles to pull the curtain down over the pilots' face and initiate the ejection sequence. The USNavy continued to use face-curtains for many decades.
Meanwhile the USAF preferred activation handles down beside the Polly's knees. Some USAF seats incorporate side curtains to tuck the pilot's arms in during ejection.
Finally, CF-104 pilots wore "ejection spurs " to pull their feet back against the front edge of the seat pan and prevent them from being sliced of by the instrument panel.
Most modern ejection seat handles are down between the pilot's knees, tucking arms inboard to further reduce the risk of limb flail.
The AEROCAB projects started towards the end of the Viet Nam War, when the USAF, USN and USMC were losing significant numbers of aircrew over Hanoi. If captured they were tortured and became (very expensive) diplomatic trading chips. All the AEROCAB proposals were designed to fly then 50 miles east where they could parachute into the South China Sea beside USN warships.
Circa 1990, the USN drop-tested a square, Jalbert type parachute (similar to what modern skydivers wear) for an ejection seat, but that project died for political reasons.
ML and Martin Baker were both encouraged by the Air Ministry to provide a face blind firing handle. The two benefits were protection of the face, and improved spinal posture to cope with the initial gun acceleration. ML had preferred the seat pan side handle approach. Martin Baker continued with the face screen right up to the Mark 7 (F4K Phantom rocket assisted seat). The switch to seat pan only firing handles arose from increased need to eject at low altitude.
In 'controlled' ejections due to say an aircraft malfunction at altitude preventing safe landing, the pilot has time to strap up tight, slow the aircraft, jettison the canopy, and then go. In high speed, low altitude ejections from say a missile or bird strike, there no time to prepare. Having only one seat pan handle cuts down decision making (which handle to pull), places the firing handle close to the pilot's hands on stick and throttle, and avoids situations where under high positive g the face screen handle could often not be reached. Poor posture was compensated by gas cartridge or seat movement powered harness and leg retraction. The first modern M-B seat with these capabilities was the original Mk8 for TSR-2 way back in the early sixties. It also featured powered head and arm restraint, a remarkably innovative seat in keeping with TSR-2's low altitude capabilities.
Early limb injuries were generally caused by a combination of air blast and aerodynamic instability of the seat (spinning) once it leaves the aircraft rails. Lots of work was done on this at RAE Farnborough, and you'll notice that on today's MB seats the initial drogue parachute, fired just as the seat is clear of the aircraft, is held on a three point latch system that keeps the seat facing into the airflow until it is ready for separation, when the two lower shackles release.
Way back when there were three UK seat suppliers, the Folland (SAAB) seat used in the Gnat had no such problems due to the twin gun system, whose extended tubes stayed with the seat and provided much improved stability. In the M-B design the middle gun section stays with the aircraft.
In 'controlled' ejections due to say an aircraft malfunction at altitude preventing safe landing, the pilot has time to strap up tight, slow the aircraft, jettison the canopy, and then go. In high speed, low altitude ejections from say a missile or bird strike, there no time to prepare. Having only one seat pan handle cuts down decision making (which handle to pull), places the firing handle close to the pilot's hands on stick and throttle, and avoids situations where under high positive g the face screen handle could often not be reached. Poor posture was compensated by gas cartridge or seat movement powered harness and leg retraction. The first modern M-B seat with these capabilities was the original Mk8 for TSR-2 way back in the early sixties. It also featured powered head and arm restraint, a remarkably innovative seat in keeping with TSR-2's low altitude capabilities.
Early limb injuries were generally caused by a combination of air blast and aerodynamic instability of the seat (spinning) once it leaves the aircraft rails. Lots of work was done on this at RAE Farnborough, and you'll notice that on today's MB seats the initial drogue parachute, fired just as the seat is clear of the aircraft, is held on a three point latch system that keeps the seat facing into the airflow until it is ready for separation, when the two lower shackles release.
Way back when there were three UK seat suppliers, the Folland (SAAB) seat used in the Gnat had no such problems due to the twin gun system, whose extended tubes stayed with the seat and provided much improved stability. In the M-B design the middle gun section stays with the aircraft.
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Re: Interesting escape concepts. Folland Gnat parachutes
Thanks for all the additional details.
I did not know that SAAB had a hand in designing ejection seats for Folland Gnat. My experience is limited to repacking parachutes for Folland Gnats .... pretty sophisticated with drogue, Nautilus drogue releases, automatic activation device, etc. In keeping with British practice, those parachutes had nylon canopies and harnesses, but cotton containers. By 1993, cotton containers had faded to "ugly," far to ugly to compete with other Warbirds at Oshkosh, so I helped Manley Butler "remanufacture" a few with nylon containers for Folland Gnats.
The early 1990s were an exciting period with all those communist-surplus Warbirds flooding the American market. The most interesting parachutes I repacked were SAAB Drakens (National Test Pilot School in Mojave). They combined a sophisticated, horse-shoe shaped container that wrapped over the top
of the mortar, but a rather crude pilot chute and no staging device around the skirt of the large canopy????
Does anyone know where to buy that book about M.L.Aviation?
Thanks for all the additional details.
I did not know that SAAB had a hand in designing ejection seats for Folland Gnat. My experience is limited to repacking parachutes for Folland Gnats .... pretty sophisticated with drogue, Nautilus drogue releases, automatic activation device, etc. In keeping with British practice, those parachutes had nylon canopies and harnesses, but cotton containers. By 1993, cotton containers had faded to "ugly," far to ugly to compete with other Warbirds at Oshkosh, so I helped Manley Butler "remanufacture" a few with nylon containers for Folland Gnats.
The early 1990s were an exciting period with all those communist-surplus Warbirds flooding the American market. The most interesting parachutes I repacked were SAAB Drakens (National Test Pilot School in Mojave). They combined a sophisticated, horse-shoe shaped container that wrapped over the top
of the mortar, but a rather crude pilot chute and no staging device around the skirt of the large canopy????
Does anyone know where to buy that book about M.L.Aviation?
My experience with Folland and M-B seats dates back to the late 70's at Farnborough. We had a number of available Folland seats used for arm restraint trials. I think the M-B seats we used for stability trials with GQ drogue chutes were Mk9 or 10, they were certainly the later rocket assisted models. Happy days on the high speed rocket sled range at Pendine.
Graham Carter's book:
ML Aviation Ltd - A Secret World
Keyham Books
Startley
Chippenham
SN15 5HG
http://www.keyhambooks.freeserve.co.uk/index.htm
Beware inflated price second hand copies - until recently it was still in print - the web address has changed to that above, but the book is still advertised at just £15 plus postage.
All it lacks for us modellers is a dimensioned drawing of any of the four marks of ML seat - ANYONE?
Regards
Peter
Graham Carter's book:
ML Aviation Ltd - A Secret World
Keyham Books
Startley
Chippenham
SN15 5HG
http://www.keyhambooks.freeserve.co.uk/index.htm
Beware inflated price second hand copies - until recently it was still in print - the web address has changed to that above, but the book is still advertised at just £15 plus postage.
All it lacks for us modellers is a dimensioned drawing of any of the four marks of ML seat - ANYONE?
Regards
Peter
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W
Wingknut
Guest
Miles M.52 escape pod mock-up: http://aviadejavu.ru/Site/Crafts/Craft21905.htm
Model of the Martin-Baker 'swing arm' ejector: http://wedgex.tumblr.com/post/56181884553/xplanes-the-martin-baker-swing-arm-concept
Model of the Martin-Baker 'swing arm' ejector: http://wedgex.tumblr.com/post/56181884553/xplanes-the-martin-baker-swing-arm-concept
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Re the Victor there was at one time a proposal for the entire nose to form a detachable escape capsule/pod:
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I remember reading about this at the time...
"https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1980/1980%20-%202138.html?search=boeing%20head%20down%20ejection
Boeing has been awarded a $308,000 contract from the US Air Force to develop a reclined ejection seat for advanced combat aircraft. The
reclined seat development follows advanced fighter studies which highlight the advantages of a low-profile cockpit. Such cockpits reduce an aircraft's frontal area, weight, drag and cost. The pilot would be seated in a semi-prone position, reclining at an angle of 65°. Besides making possible a low-profile cockpit, the reclining position—by putting the pilot's heart higher relative to his brain—increases the pilot's g tolerance and subsequently his effectiveness in combat.
One key to the low-profile cockpit is the development of a crew escape system for the reclined seat. The conventional method of seat ejection— using seat guide rails and an explosive charge and/or rocket-pack—would not provide adequate aircraft clearance for a reclined seat.
The Boeing concept is a two-step ejection sequence. A catapult will rotate the seat out of the cockpit, pivoting about the pilot's headrest.
The seat will then be propelled away from the aircraft by a rocket motor with an automatic thrust vector control. This is one of three ejection-seat
contracts on which Boeing is currently working. The other two involve the development of an advanced seat for high-airspeed ejections and the
development of computer analysis techniques to predict the stability ofejection seats throughout their trajectory.
The high-speed ejection work is concentrating on reducing wind blast, prevention of limb flailing and lowering the physical loads on the seat
occupant. Boeing will complete the high-speed ejection system work in late 1981 and will finish the reclined seat programme in late 1982."
cheers,
Robin.
"https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1980/1980%20-%202138.html?search=boeing%20head%20down%20ejection
Boeing has been awarded a $308,000 contract from the US Air Force to develop a reclined ejection seat for advanced combat aircraft. The
reclined seat development follows advanced fighter studies which highlight the advantages of a low-profile cockpit. Such cockpits reduce an aircraft's frontal area, weight, drag and cost. The pilot would be seated in a semi-prone position, reclining at an angle of 65°. Besides making possible a low-profile cockpit, the reclining position—by putting the pilot's heart higher relative to his brain—increases the pilot's g tolerance and subsequently his effectiveness in combat.
One key to the low-profile cockpit is the development of a crew escape system for the reclined seat. The conventional method of seat ejection— using seat guide rails and an explosive charge and/or rocket-pack—would not provide adequate aircraft clearance for a reclined seat.
The Boeing concept is a two-step ejection sequence. A catapult will rotate the seat out of the cockpit, pivoting about the pilot's headrest.
The seat will then be propelled away from the aircraft by a rocket motor with an automatic thrust vector control. This is one of three ejection-seat
contracts on which Boeing is currently working. The other two involve the development of an advanced seat for high-airspeed ejections and the
development of computer analysis techniques to predict the stability ofejection seats throughout their trajectory.
The high-speed ejection work is concentrating on reducing wind blast, prevention of limb flailing and lowering the physical loads on the seat
occupant. Boeing will complete the high-speed ejection system work in late 1981 and will finish the reclined seat programme in late 1982."
cheers,
Robin.
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Greetings All -
To go along with Tailspin Turtle's post #95:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Aviation-Article-Douglas-Aircraft-Emergency-Escape-Bailout-Cockpit-for-Navy-/331833891762?hash=item4d42d75bb2:g:~iYAAOxyj4hTIglB
The F4D Skyray capsule looks like it may have been sled tested.
Enjoy the Day! Mark
To go along with Tailspin Turtle's post #95:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Aviation-Article-Douglas-Aircraft-Emergency-Escape-Bailout-Cockpit-for-Navy-/331833891762?hash=item4d42d75bb2:g:~iYAAOxyj4hTIglB
The F4D Skyray capsule looks like it may have been sled tested.
Enjoy the Day! Mark
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