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Author Topic: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939  (Read 67913 times)

Offline raravia

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Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« on: March 29, 2006, 12:26:30 am »
Well

Let´s break this topic with a two very interesting projects from profesor Junkers, both of them flying wings. The first one i found it in a websitre dedicated to junkers aircraft is the Junkers 1000 a colossus wich should be transport a lot of people, the design is from 1919, a very advanced aircraft for this time.

The second is another flying wing project of 1930, had six engines, i suppose it could transport a respectable amount of passengers. I would like to find more info about those old giants.

Saludos

Online Antonio

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2006, 02:05:07 pm »
Saludos Raravia!

You have info about this and a lot more giant aircraft from all times at "Giants of the Sky" by Bill Gunston. Ed PSL. ISBN 1-85260-258-9.

Prof. Hugo Junkers worked on a series of giant passenger aircraft

By late 1919, the JG-1 which was a civil version of its R.I bomber (a very advanced monoplane bomber from mid-1917. see The German Giants by GH Haddow and PM Grosz. Ed Putnam. ISBN. 0 85177 812 7) was cancelled by the Allied Control Comission when construction of the prototype has been initiated.
JG-1 had 4 Junkers L2a engines at 230 hp each latter changed to Liberty at 400 hp. Span was 125 ft (41 m aprox)

The R-Flugboot (giant flying boat) first drawings dated June 1918. It was intended to be powered by 12 engines about 1000 hp each. Span was 262 feet (86 m). Loaded weight: 48 tonnes.

In 1921 replaced the R-Flugboot with the Junkerissime. An all wing aircraft with twin booms it has to be powered by 4 Diessel engines at 700 hp each. Wingspan was 206 feet (68 m) and maximum passenger capacity was 60.

By 1925, Junkers completed its dream design, the J1000. Canard, twin hull and all wing configuration. Capacity: 100 passenger. Span: 262 feet. No information available about the engines. People boarded up stairs from the trailing edge.

A bigger desgign was proposed (I would love to see drawings about this monster): Wing cord between 19-20 meters, double decker layout. Span: 425-450 feet (140-148 m). Capacity: 100 to 1000 passenger

I have found nothing about this 1930 design attached to your post. But design data and weight (100 ton) could be applicable to the design I have described in the paragraph above, what do you think?



Antonio



Offline lark

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #2 on: March 31, 2006, 08:35:21 am »
For the record...

Planned engines for the Junkers J-1000 Ente project:
4 Diesel engines of 3000PS
Span:70 metres.

Source: Nurflügel - Waffen-Arsenal Special band 18 Hans-Peter Dabrowski

The 1930's Junkers flying wing was proposed by Hans -Justus Meier and planned
for TransAtlantic flights.
100 ton take-off weight.100 passengers.Ten Diesel engines of 1000P.S.

Source : Nurflügel - Die Geschichte der Horten - Flugzeuge 1933-1960
            Reimar Horten . Peter Selinger
            Weishaupt Verlag . Graz  Austria

Regards,

Paul.
 

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Offline raravia

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #4 on: April 03, 2006, 12:00:03 pm »

Muchas gracias Antonio

Fabián

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2006, 11:03:34 am »
My dears,

they were a really projects such as Junkers Ju-77,see also:
http://www.mda.org.uk/aircraft/10449.htm
it was the second greatest aircraft site after this site in my
opinion.

Offline lark

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2006, 10:10:40 am »
Dear hesham,

The Junkers Ju-77 is in fact the EF-77 project.(Entwicklungs Flugzeug)
 a further development of the Ju-52/3m.

In fact , all you ever wanted to know about Junkers is on:
http://www.junkers.de.vu/

Enjoy!

Offline slmvbs

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2006, 02:22:59 pm »
this Junkers project dates from the early 1930's and icludes a design to house a float plane.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2012, 02:15:55 am by Stargazer2006 »

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2007, 09:44:03 am »
Thanks dear Chuck,

that site have names of unknown projects (only names);
http://luftwaffe35.ifrance.com/html/junkers.htm

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2007, 08:19:04 am »
Hi,

by the way, the site which I was mentioned it yesterday had
a many companies projects and not only for Junkers.

Offline Wurger

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Junkers Seaplane proposal (J 40 ?)
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2008, 10:55:16 am »
Hello guys,

the picture above ( "Hugo Junkers Pionier der Luftfahrt", Wolfgang Wagner, B&G ) only comes as a teaser, since my doubt isn`t exactly about this particular project, but probably an off-shot.

in August 1934 the RLM set a requirement for a reconnaissance seaplane with 5 to 6 seats. They were presented to Dornier, Hamburger Flugzeugbau and Junkers. The dornier project became the Do24, the Ha/Blohm&Voss application the Bv138 and the Junkers one turned to be a "DOPPELFLUGBOOT" proposal ( text taken from "Wasserflugzeuge-Flugboote...", by Hans-Juergen Becker, B&G verlag). Bruno Lange`s "Typenhandbuch der Luftfahrttechnik" only refers to it as a "ZWILLINGS-FLUGBOOT". Apparently it was to be a seaplane with twin fuselages, much in the line of the above portrayed.
Is anyone here enlighted in this "seabird"?
« Last Edit: November 09, 2015, 11:58:17 pm by Jemiba »

Offline lark

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Re: Junkers Seaplane proposal
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2008, 11:55:43 am »
According to Fred Gütschow in de 'Die Deutschen Flugboote' Motorbuch - Stuttgart 1978
it should be a -1928- design for a ' freitragender Schulterdecker mit doppeltem Bootsrumpf'
(shoulderwing design with double hull)

No type number known.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Junkers Seaplane proposal
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2008, 01:06:04 pm »
Hi Lark,

nice to have you here. The picture relates to that particular project, but I am searching for a 6 year older design, also with double fuselage, a contender to the "Flying Clog".

Offline lark

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Re: Junkers Seaplane proposal
« Reply #13 on: July 08, 2008, 08:27:31 am »
Würger , in the book you mention "Wasserflugzeuge etc.." there a 1936
Hillman project for a double fuselage military flying boat project powered by four
engines (two in tanden).

Hillmann was the former chiefdesigner by Schütte-Lanz.Maybe he worked in
coöperation for Junkers at that time...

Offline Wurger

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Re: Junkers Seaplane proposal
« Reply #14 on: July 08, 2008, 10:44:54 am »
Hi Lark,

thanks for your concern. Unfortunatelly I only have a few copies from that book. Can you please transcript the text involved? I believe there is no sketch of this "bird", is it? All the best.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Junkers Seaplane proposal
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2008, 02:30:27 am »
Lark,

In "Wasserflugzeuge..." I can only find reference to a 1925 Hillmann project for a "Atlantikflugboot", with twin hulls, yet with 6 engines.

Offline airman

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Re: Junkers Seaplane proposal
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2008, 05:52:31 am »
    Are you speaking about "Die deutsche Luftfahrt Band 21: Wasserflugzeuge- Flugboot, Amphibien, Schwimmerflugzeuge"  ? ::)
from
http://www.tracyhancock.com/WoP_books/WoP_book.html
writers , bloggers , content-curators ,  music composer and passionate of militaria and uchronia

Offline lark

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Re: Junkers Seaplane proposal
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2008, 09:10:01 am »
Yes, this is the one ,written by Hans-Jürgen Becker.
The Hillmann project is on page 32.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Junkers Seaplane proposal
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2008, 12:01:47 pm »
Hello Lark,

sorry to ask again, but can you post/transcribe the image/text pertaining to the Hillmann project?

Offline lark

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Re: Junkers Seaplane proposal
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2008, 12:44:21 pm »
Please , take a quick look in your P.M's Würger..

Offline borovik

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2010, 09:05:58 am »
Preliminary drafts Junkers Record-EF and fighter Ju EF 018 (similar in layout)
Ju EF 115.0 - two-sitter Schnellbomber / high-speed bomber, 2 x Jumo 211J engine,
Heinz J. Nowarra "Die Deutsche luft-rustung 1933-1945" Vol.3 pp133-142

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2010, 01:01:27 pm »
The Junkers EFo-18, referred to as "pre war jet record aircraft" was one in a
series of configurations for a single seat jet fighter from around 1938/39, designed
for wind tunnel testing. The development of the jet engine had led to demands
to investigate, how to use them in the best way. Those designs were not projects,
just tests to determine the best shape and position of wings, fuselage, engine
attachements and so on.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Justo Miranda

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2010, 01:43:47 pm »
Junkers SR known as "Junkers EF.010"
From
-German Jet Genesis by David Masters , Jane's 1982
-Die Deutsche Luftrüstung ,Band 3, by Heinz J. Nowarra
-Unicraft Models

Offline Triton

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« Last Edit: August 07, 2010, 01:30:43 pm by Triton »

Offline raravia

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #24 on: November 16, 2010, 06:15:49 pm »

Awesome!!!

Thanks Triton

Offline Nik

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2010, 10:40:17 am »
Astonishing !!

FWIW, I remember reading about those rather underpowered contemporary flying boats that had to taxi far out to sea before their fuel loads burned off sufficiently for them to even reach surface effect...

Offline Alcides

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2012, 03:20:28 pm »
hesham as a Junkers fan I'm very happy with your find.

 What the source of all this information? I can't find it on the site and sadly  I can't read german.
Because I can see a lot of wonderful pictures. Could be great to have them on a bigger resolution.



Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2012, 03:27:04 pm »
hesham as a Junkers fan I'm very happy with your find.

 What the source of all this information? I can't find it on the site and sadly  I can't read german.
Because I can see a lot of wonderful pictures. Could be great to have them on a bigger resolution.


Hi Alcides,


in the early section of the google translation,you will find under Preliminary six or seven
articles,click on each of them and you will see those projects by English language.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #28 on: December 31, 2012, 02:00:46 am »
The original site is this one: http://www.ju-f13.de/
By clicking the different subitems, you can chose the themes, or simply click on the first point
under "Inhaltsverzeichnis" (contents), scroll down and click on the link on the right-hand-side
of "weiter" (next, at the book symbol) to get to the next point.
What I've read so far, the author Angelika Hofmann really did a good job. BTW, she participated, too,
in this site about Hugo Junkers :http://www.junkers.de/
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2013, 06:16:42 am »
Topics merged.

Offline Cy-27

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #30 on: February 24, 2013, 06:09:05 am »
I have just finished an East German book (source details below) on Hugo Junkers career.
 
The text has references to Junkers Project numbers which I had never come across before (probably familar to Junkers aficionados !).
 
For completeness, here are Gunter Schmitt's cross-references of project types:
 
Junkers Project 1 - Junkers J3 - first light metal aircraft
Junkers Project 2 - Junkers J5 - small light , low-wing cantilever monoplane in three planned versions designed but never built
Junkers Project 3 - Junkers J6 - high-wing cantilever monoplane from August 1917. At the wars end the protoype was half-completed at Dessau
Junkers Project 4 - Junkers R1 - four engine giant monoplane heavy bomber project in two versions, both low-wing.
Junkers Project 5 - Junkers R2 - twin engine giant monoplane heavy bomber project.
Junkers Project 6 - Junkers R3 - four engine giant flying boat project.
Junkers Project 7 - Junkers J12 - four seat passenger aeroplane project.
Junkers Project 8 - Junkers J14 - ten seat passenger commercial project.
Junkers Project 9 - Junkers R4 - three engine giant monoplane 1920 project.
Junkers Project 10 - Junkers JG1 - four engine project for a mid-wing monoplane, a 1920 Schulterdecker.
Junkers Project 11 - Junkers Junkerissime - large land and marine aircraft project with four engines for 60-64 passengers from 1921.
Junkers Project 12 - Junkers J1000 - the design named Riesenente (Giant Duck!), 1924 flying wing project.
Junkers Project 13 - Junkers Ju.X - transport seaplane project derived from the Junkerissime in 1928.
Junkers Project 14 - Junkers Ju.Y - 100 ton transport project.
 
Sources:
Hugo Junkers and his Aircraft (Gunter Schmitt) Transpress (GDR) 1988 ISBN 3344003038

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #31 on: February 24, 2013, 07:34:54 am »
Excellent Cy-27,thank you.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #32 on: February 24, 2013, 11:32:11 am »
Hi Cy-27,
 
can you please continue the transcription of Junkers aircraft projects as far as the book goes? Does it builds also on post-Hugo Junkers?
Cheers

Offline Cy-27

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #33 on: February 24, 2013, 11:44:14 pm »
The book covers Junkers designs up to the death of Hugo Junkers in February 1935. Subsequent aircraft designs by the firm are not covered.
 
I will post projects mentioned that are not covered elsewhere on the forum as and when I get free time.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2013, 02:47:06 am »
Thanks.

Offline Cy-27

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #35 on: February 28, 2013, 01:25:11 am »
More on Junkers Project numbers ...
 
Junkers Project 7 - Junkers J12 - four seat passenger aeroplane project.
 
This was a Junkers project to develop th J10 into a four seat (1 pilot, 3 passengers) light passenger aircraft. Parts from the J10 were to be utilised but the actual fuselage was higher and wider. Design work was completed in January 1919. Work was halted when difficulties arose with mating the cabin to the fuselage. All data below is estimated.
 
Engine: Mercedes D IIIau (118 kW / 160 hp) engine
Wing Span: 12.25 m
Length: 8.25 m
Height: 3.00 m
Wing Area: 25.00 sq m
Maximum Speed: 170 km/h
Ceiling: 6,000 m
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Junkers Project 8 - Junkers J14 - ten seat passenger commercial project.
 
This strutted monoplane had a crew of two and eight passengers in four rows of two. The final plans for the machine were dated 10 July 1919 and showed a twin tail with two wing mounted engines.
 
Engine: 2 x  Daimler D IIIa (118 kW / 160 hp) or 2 x BMW IIIa (136 kW / 185 hp) engines
Wing Span: 24.30 m
Length: 12.9 m
Height: 3.50 m
Fuselage Width: 3.8 m
 
 
Source:

Hugo Junkers and his Aircraft (Gunter Schmitt) Transpress (GDR) 1988 ISBN 3344003038

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #36 on: February 28, 2013, 04:54:40 am »
Very nice my dear Cy-27.

Offline Cy-27

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #37 on: February 28, 2013, 11:18:23 am »
More on the Junkers Project numbers

Junkers Project 9 - Junkers R4 - three engine giant monoplane 1920 project.
 
The draft plan for this design was 22 April 1920. Distinctive central teardrop shaped fuselage with a nose engine and two more embedded in the wings. Flight deck for two, with accomodation fo 24 passengers in six rows of four with a central aisle. All details below are estimated.
 
Engines: 3 x  Unknown engines
Wing Span: 38.0 m
Length: 24.0 m
Height: 5.50 m
Wing Area: 240 sq m
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Junkers Project 10 - Junkers JG1 - four engine project for a mid-wing monoplane, a 1920 Schulterdecker.
A trial construction started in 1920. Even with two of the four engine unavailable, it was believed that the JG1 could still fly at a height of 1,000 m at 110 km/h. Those parts finished by 1921 were destroyed due to the terms of the Treaty of Versailles restricting certain constuctions. Hovever, two sections of fuselage and one wing section (see image below) were hidden in the Junkers teaching exhibition, only to be destroyed in 1945.
 
Engines: 4 x  Unknown (191 kW / 260 hp) engines
Wing Span: 36.0 m
Wing Area:  sq m
Empty Weight: 9,000 kg
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Junkers Project 11 - Junkers Junkerissime - large land and marine aircraft project with four engines for 60-64 passengers from 1921.
 
see http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,5965.msg48584.html
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Junkers Project 12 - Junkers J1000 - the design named Riesenente (Giant Duck!)
 
A 1924 flying wing project / cavity wing canard design.
 
see http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,177.msg1006.html#msg1006
and
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,6893.msg150772.html#msg150772
 
Sources:
Hugo Junkers and his Aircraft (Gunter Schmitt) Transpress (GDR) 1988 ISBN 3344003038
 
 

Offline Cy-27

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #38 on: February 28, 2013, 03:30:08 pm »
The last of the Junkers project number 1 to 14...

Junkers Project 13 - Junkers "Ju.X" - a transport seaplane project derived from the Junkerissime in 1928.
 
A future development of the Junkerissime flying boat design from 1921. No records exist for an official designation in the Junkers Dessau archive so Schmitt allocated "Ju.X" to this type.

Work on this large passenger flying boat started in 1928. Two fuselage hulls with a new box tail unit which joined the two hulls. It had raised pairs of airscrews above the wing in tandem. The cockpit was on the port hull only which gave the design an asymmetrical appearance head-on. No technical details.
 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Junkers Project 14 - Junkers "Ju.Y" - 100 ton transport project.
 
As with the Ju.X, no company records exist for the designation of this project in the Junker Dessau archive so Schmitt allocated "Ju.Y" to this type. The outline design plan carried the reference "F.B.5243" and "Nurflugel-Flugzeug".

It was a 1930 design for a giant transport flying wing. It was to have ten diesel engines integrated into the thick middle wing area. It was to have an intermediate transmission and extension shaft to drive the ten pusher propellers located in the trailing wing.

There were possible two versions of this design, one with a tail and short rear fuselage and one without. It had a swept back outer wing. All details below estimates only.
 
Engines: 10 x Unknown Diesel (753kW / 1,000 hp)
Crew: 20
Passengers: 100
Maximum Take-off Weight: 100 tons
Freight Payload: 5 tons
 
Sources:
Hugo Junkers and his Aircraft (Gunter Schmitt) Transpress (GDR) 1988 ISBN 3344003038

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #39 on: February 28, 2013, 03:50:34 pm »
Oh,that's fantastic,thank you my dear Cy-27.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #40 on: February 28, 2013, 10:08:35 pm »
Junkers Project 14 - Junkers "Ju.Y" - 100 ton transport project.
 
As with the Ju.X, no company records exist for the designation of this project in the Junker Dessau archive so Schmitt allocated "Ju.Y" to this type. The outline design plan carried the reference "F.B.5243" and "Nurflugel-Flugzeug".

It was a 1930 design for a giant transport flying wing. It was to have ten diesel engines integrated into the thick middle wing area. It was to have an intermediate transmission and extension shaft to drive the ten pusher propellers located in the trailing wing.

Thanks for all those information, Cy-27!
Here-under a drawing of the project Y from the book "Nurflügel" by R. Horten and P. Selinger (H. Weishaupt Verlag-1985).
 
« Last Edit: February 28, 2013, 10:10:18 pm by Retrofit »

Offline Cy-27

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2013, 03:35:05 am »
Junkers Junkerissime layout from the 1998 book Junkers Grossflugzeuge...
 
Source:
 Junkers Grossflugzeuge (H.J.Nowarra) Motorbuch Verlag (1998) ISBN 3613012243
« Last Edit: March 02, 2013, 03:40:25 am by Cy-27 »

Offline Cy-27

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #42 on: March 02, 2013, 03:39:38 am »
Junkers J.1000 model from the 1998 book Junkers Grossflugzeuge...

 
Source:
Junkers Grossflugzeuge (H.J.Nowarra) Motorbuch Verlag (1998) ISBN 3613012243

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #43 on: March 02, 2013, 05:06:57 am »
Thank you my dear Cy-27,


do you have a drawing to J.28 two seat fighter project ?.

Offline Cy-27

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #44 on: March 02, 2013, 06:02:41 am »
Hesham - No J28 I'm afraid, but I did find a JG.1 drawing on a disk drive secured back in 2003 ! Sorry, source unknown, looks like a scan from a book.

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #45 on: March 02, 2013, 08:10:05 am »
Thank you My dear Cy-27.

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #46 on: March 21, 2013, 09:56:15 am »
Hi,


the Junkers Gleitflieger projects.


http://alternathistory.org.ua/pervoe-letayushchee-krylo

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #47 on: March 21, 2013, 10:53:44 am »
"Gleitflieger" principally means glider, in this case not quite correct, as to versions
are actually fitted with engines. 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #48 on: March 21, 2013, 02:53:11 pm »
"Gleitflieger" principally means glider, in this case not quite correct, as to versions
are actually fitted with engines.


 I don't know my dear Jemiab,but in the translation,they said;


   Fig.5.Four versions of the proposed Junkers «Gleitflieger»-a.So they had to look after the renovation.
        On all versions (not mentioned in the patent) is missing tail.

Figure 5 a.Above shows the actual «Gleitflieger» as described in the patent - without propulsion and c chassis.

Figure 5 b.In this embodiment, «Gleitflieger» with the power plant with two screws and pulling c chassis.For reconstruction has benefited from the description of the patent, made ​​by hand Junkers, sketches of a patent application and a similar model for wind tunnel tests.

Figure 5 c.Another option «Gleitflieger»-but with the power plant, in this case with a pusher propeller.

Figure 5 d.Like this must look option «Gleitflieger»-and the chassis, c two pulling and two pushing screws
« Last Edit: March 21, 2013, 02:56:44 pm by hesham »

Online Jemiba

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #49 on: March 21, 2013, 10:22:31 pm »
Yes, I know those drawings, they are shown in an Luftfahrt International issue, the translations on the alternatehistory-site
usually are very close to the original text. Don't have access to that mag in the moment, but will look it up this evening.
Principally, the origin of the "Gleitflieger" was a patent drawing, the motorized versions are reconstruction using them and
handmade sketches and notes from Hugo Junkers, so probably no "projects", but "ideas".
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #50 on: March 22, 2013, 05:26:36 am »
OK my dear Jemiba.

Online Retrofit

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #51 on: March 22, 2013, 07:50:24 am »
Indeed, from Luftfahrt Internationnal n°18, concerning the potential applications of Junkers Patent n°253.788 filled on February 1st, 1910.
So no projects, just ideas :)

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #52 on: March 22, 2013, 09:25:07 am »
Thank you my dear Retrofit for your explanation.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #53 on: April 02, 2013, 09:15:04 am »
Today "Der deutsche Luftverkehr - Die Pionierjahre 1919 - 1925" (German Airtrafic - The Pioneering Years 1919 - 25)
from the series "Die deutsche Luftfahrt" has fallen into my hands. Shown are a single and a twin engined version of the
Junkers G 23, which actually evolved as a tri engined aircraft. Probably those two versions were just theoretical calculations
by Ernst Zindel (chief designer for Junkers), to show, why in the end three engines were chosen.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #54 on: April 02, 2013, 09:26:40 am »
Excellent my dear Jemiba,


but is there any drawing to J.17 and J.18 Projects ?.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2013, 09:48:02 am »
AFAIK, the J 17 was a project for an improved K 16, but is isn't mentioned and so, of course,
no drawings. And the J 18, wasn't it an aircraft for the German Navy ? So it's not very probable
to find it in a book about civil aircraft. isn't it ?  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #56 on: April 02, 2013, 10:01:00 am »
Yes,sorry for that my dear Jemiba.

Offline Arjen

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #57 on: April 02, 2013, 10:14:17 am »
From: 'Hugo Junkers Pionier der Luftfahrt - seine Flugzeuge' by Wolfgang Wagner, Bernard & Graefe, 1996.

J 17: redesigned K 16 for which a monocoque fuselage was considered to save weight.
J 18: two-seat aircraft with combined rudder/elevator; five cylinder radial engine. Some windtunnel work was done for this design, Junkers hoped to sell it to the German Navy, construction was to take six weeks.

No drawings. Neither aircraft was built because of the aircraft construction ban imposed on Germany by the allies after World War One.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #58 on: April 02, 2013, 02:57:01 pm »
Thank you my dear Arjen.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #59 on: May 16, 2013, 09:00:26 am »
OK my dear Jemiba.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #60 on: June 25, 2013, 03:20:33 am »
Not actually an aircraft project, but one for additional equipment, that I recently in a small brochure with the title „Kolloquium zum Leben und Werk von Hugo
Junkers – Erste praktische Experimente zur Anwendung der Raketentechnik in den Dessauer Junkers-Flugzeugwerken“  (Colloquium about Hugo Junkers –
First practical experiments fort he use of rocket technology in the Junkers aircraft plant, Dessau“. During 1929 Junkers started with experiments to use solid
fueled (powder) rockets as a means of supporting an overladden aircraft during take-off.  Rockets made by the J.P.Eisfeld company were used for those tests,
each haven a length of 0,40 m and a diameter of 6 cm, developing a thrust of 75 kp each for about 1.5 seconds. Fitted in pairs to the underside of the wing
centersection of a Ju 34, starting with two and later 6 rockets, the results were regarded as very promising and especially useful for float planes and flying
boats. Although it wasn’t actually the first use of rockets for man carrying aircraft, it probably was the first time with a real scientific approach.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #61 on: November 29, 2013, 04:31:19 am »
Yes my dear Jemiba,


but I thought it's early design.

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #62 on: November 29, 2013, 06:51:30 am »
Amazing info my dear Richard.

Online Jemiba

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #63 on: November 29, 2013, 10:46:46 am »
The pre-project looks especially interesting due to its strange wing shape. THanks for reminding
me to wagners book, will have a look into it again.
About the aft fuselage covered with corrugated aluminium panels: AFAIK, it was originally planned
to build all aircraft this way, but the shortage of raw materials led to most aircrat being completed
with fabric covering only.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline c460

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2014, 10:55:07 am »
The Junkerissime, not posted yet. The description is from the Spanish magazine Aérea, Apr. 1924.
(The image is a better copy found on the web.)

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2014, 08:10:33 am »
Thank you my dear Retrofit.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2014, 12:28:12 pm »
Interesting is especially the page posted by hesham, as the author explains, that the "Junkers Gleitflieger"
(we had them here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,177.msg181459.html#msg181459 )
weren't actually designed as lying wings ! They are "Large volume wings" with the fuselage given an airfoil
shape and holding cockpit, engines and payload.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #67 on: March 14, 2014, 06:57:09 am »
Hi,


From Luftfahrt 3/1979,here is an early design to Junkers G 38 aircraft,this project
had a high-wing and only a twin engined for propulsion.


Also a glider project based on G 38.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 05:04:24 am by hesham »

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #68 on: March 14, 2014, 11:14:40 am »
The glider shown was intended as a manned flying model. Interesting, that a
Junkers F 13 was used to carry a test arrangement for the G 38 tail plane, which
was carried above the wing.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #69 on: March 14, 2014, 02:37:17 pm »
The glider shown was intended as a manned flying model. Interesting, that a
Junkers F 13 was used to carry a test arrangement for the G 38 tail plane, which
was carried above the wing.


That's right my dear Jemiba,and here is the pictures for it.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #70 on: March 17, 2014, 02:56:03 pm »
Hi Chuck,


although I have many books about Junkers,but no one of them contains airship
projects,may be someone can help.

Offline Kdmoo

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #71 on: March 18, 2014, 05:46:23 pm »
Here is the W33 experimental twin in flight and a better resolution photo of the one previously posted by hesham.  Note the wood grain on the props.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2014, 05:49:29 pm by Kdmoo »

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #72 on: March 19, 2014, 05:10:41 am »
That's nice Kdmoo,


I forgot to speak about it,thanks.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #73 on: March 19, 2014, 08:46:58 am »
Hi,


here is a high altitude aircraft projected by Junkers during 1930s,from Luftfahrt 11/1979,
I can send the whole article if someone wants.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #74 on: March 19, 2014, 09:37:13 am »
Very interesting find, hesham !
Really would like to read that article ! Is there any mention, that this design is based on
the Ju 52 ? At least the model quite clearly is based o it, I think.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #75 on: March 19, 2014, 09:46:39 am »
OK my dear Jemiba,


but I divide the every pages into two parts to can read it,except the page 3,no
words in it.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #76 on: March 19, 2014, 09:59:37 am »
Many thanks, the drawings are probably based on patent draings, the model shown in
the article is said to have been built from parts of a Ford Trimotor and a Ju 52 kit to give
an idea about the general layout. So, the actual shape may have been different.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #77 on: March 19, 2014, 02:41:10 pm »
Thank you my dear Jemiba.

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #78 on: April 01, 2014, 09:19:30 am »
Thank you my dears Toura and Jemiba,


and that design never appear in Luft46 site.

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #79 on: May 04, 2014, 09:21:24 am »
Hi,


amazing project from Luftfahrt International 1/1982,it was a three engined
twin boom blended wing transport aircraft project,had many features,one
of them is easy to check and fix the two engines of the wing also can cut
its twin boom to get a small size in storage,of course the fuselage was not
blended completely with the wing but a part of it.




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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #80 on: May 04, 2014, 10:22:49 am »
Interesting find ! The nose/cockpit section looks similar to the Junkers G 24. Are there explanations
for the additional fins/rudders on the forward engine cowlings ?
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #81 on: May 04, 2014, 02:27:53 pm »
Thank you my dear Jemiba,


and may be the article explains more.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #82 on: May 05, 2014, 04:34:28 am »
Those additional rudders are mentioned, but their reason seems not to be clear. It is said, that
they might replace the ailerons, but this design actually is fitted with ailerons. And for extreme
manoeuverbility, as such rudders were tested on some fighter, the design seems not very appropriate.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #83 on: May 05, 2014, 05:03:16 am »
My dear Jemiba,


I think the addition rudders are for flight without tail booms,as they are
unnecessary,the aircraft can flying as a tailless aircraft.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #84 on: May 05, 2014, 06:26:54 am »
Careful, there's quite probably no way to fly such an aircraft without a tail, that isn't designed that way,
maybe not even today, stretching the capabilities of electronic flight control systems to its limits.
And there's no mention in the text, that it was a tailless design.
An addition, I found after second reading: Ailerons could only be found in the reconstruction of the drawings,
but not in the original ones ! That actually could explain the second pair of rudders.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2014, 06:30:07 am by Jemiba »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #85 on: May 05, 2014, 06:32:32 am »
OK my dear Jemiba.

Offline iverson

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #86 on: May 10, 2014, 12:32:34 pm »
An addition, I found after second reading: Ailerons could only be found in the reconstruction of the drawings,
but not in the original ones ! That actually could explain the second pair of rudders.
If so, I wonder why a set of fins and rudders would be preferred to ailerons, which were already the established norm.

The nearness to the propellor might suggest something to do with controlling the interaction of propeller, wing, and tail. The normal fins and rudders look a bit small to my untutored eye. In take-off attitude, it looks like they would be largely blanked by the large, thick -section wing. So perhaps the forward fins and rudders were supposed to increase control at high angles of attack?

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #87 on: May 10, 2014, 02:20:51 pm »
I think your opinion is right Iverson.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #88 on: May 11, 2014, 02:24:23 am »
...In take-off attitude, it looks like they would be largely blanked by the large, thick -section wing. ...

Principally correct, I think, but the bigger problem may have been the elevator, I think. As long, as the tail
doesn't provide control force, direction may still be corrected via the tail wheel. And when the tail plane
lifts off the tail, the rear rudder gains control, too. The forward rudders maybe should be used to allow
some degree of lateral shift without wing drop, probably especially useful during landing approach.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #89 on: May 23, 2014, 05:55:22 am »
The Junkers Ju-52 drawings,family and developments;


http://www.germanaircraftwwii.com/blog/category/glidertransport/page-3/

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #90 on: June 16, 2014, 06:26:45 am »
From Jet & Prop 5/1998,


here is a strange rudder mounted over a Junkers aircraft,I used the Google translate,
but it's not good,what was this (the right one Model) ?.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #91 on: June 16, 2014, 06:55:40 am »
The aircraft on the left is a Swedish ambulance aircraft.
The aircraft on the right appears to have D-226 for registration.
 
Found this about D-226:
Quote
Junkers, D-226, first flight 19.02.1923; Aero-Express Hungary, H-MACD, July 1923; Junkers, D-226; 1928 returned to Junkers; test bed for skies in Königsberg (Deruluft); tail tests for G-38; registration canceled in 1932
Source http://public-transport.net/VIP/airline/oelag/data_en.htm
 
It seems a Junkers F.13 D-226 was used to test Junkers G.38 rudders.
 

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #92 on: June 16, 2014, 07:07:10 am »
Thank you again my dear Arjen.

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #93 on: June 30, 2014, 06:19:02 am »
From Jet & Prop 2/2004, a surprise,


here is an article talks about some Junkers aircraft and projects,and there is many unknown
projects in it,that is including; EF-29,EF-34,EF-37,EF-48 & EF-49.


Also the EF-17 was the basis for K 39,and the J.14,J.17,J.18,J.22 & J.25 are different from,
we knew before,I hope my dear Jemiba,can translate in brief,to those new projects.


And one drawing to EF-30.

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #94 on: June 30, 2014, 06:21:50 am »
And;

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #95 on: June 30, 2014, 10:20:20 am »
 Translation of "EF-30 data:

“General arrangement drawing of the EF 30, a planned modification of older 3-engined
Typ G 24 into single engine freighters. The prototype later was designated Junkers W41,
Whereas those aircraft modified by the Lufthansa on its own were simply labeled “F 24””
 
Of that article, written by Günter Frost, German aviation journalist, I’ll give a summary :
- The EF-series probably started with EF 1, but no evidence before 1925 is known and the date of its
Introduction isn’t know, too. Between 1919 and 1923 the J-numbers were used and several
of them remained unbuilt. The latter may have gotten an EF- instead of a J-designation, if this system
would already have been used then, so a possible starting point may have been between February
1923 and July 1924.-


The mentioned EF-designations, that aren't already mentioned in the "Junkers EF designations" thread
are added and can be found here http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14756.msg225555.html#msg225555
 
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #96 on: June 30, 2014, 10:27:12 am »
Thank you my dear Jemiba,and please can you translate the J series in the article.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #97 on: July 01, 2014, 11:43:15 am »
...  please can you translate the J series in the article.

I've tried to collect the J-designations from that article and other sources:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,22376.0.html
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #98 on: July 01, 2014, 04:35:20 pm »
Thank you my dear Jemiba,


and here is the EF0-021 project,it was double-deck transocean civil transport
aircraft;


http://www.junkers.de.vu/

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #99 on: July 05, 2014, 06:19:17 am »
From Jet & Prop 5/2004,


and this article sent by my dear Borovik before;
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,14756.msg151346.html#msg151346


although I know some Heinkel projects in 900s series,but it's first time to see this Heinkel
P.997,and it seems to be a transport/bomber aircraft project,do you know more about it ?.

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #100 on: July 05, 2014, 06:53:20 am »
OK my dear Jemiba,


but about the Heinkel P.997,can I make a hint about it in Heinkel topic ?.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #101 on: July 05, 2014, 08:00:16 am »
Of course, but then please reduce it to a cut out of the small part about the
He P.997, or Boulton-Paul Sidestrand or Fokker T.IV, which are mentioned just as a
side note, without any further comment. Otherwise may lead to a lot of confusion,
as the article itself is solely about Junkers projects. Or you just cite from it, mentioning
the source.
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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #102 on: July 16, 2014, 09:34:56 pm »
Found in Wolfgang Wagners "Geschichte der deutschen Luftfahrzeugtechnik - Von der J1 bis zur F 13", a drawing
of the J 12, which was a derivative of the J 10 into a small passenger aircraft with a semi-closed cabin.
Drawn in 1919, it already reminds on the later F 13.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #103 on: July 17, 2014, 05:01:56 pm »
Neat!  ;)

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #104 on: July 17, 2014, 09:31:06 pm »
Neat!  ;)

Rather draughty, I think. And perhaps somewhat strange, as during the same time, converted military
aircraft already got enclosed cabins for the pax, freeing them from the need to wear leather helmets,
flight goggles and so on. In that layout, the F 13 certainly wouldn't have secured the same commercial
success, I think.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #105 on: July 18, 2014, 06:46:05 am »
Hi,


here is the Junkers J40 and flying boat Nr.15 ;


http://www.geocities.ws/hjunkers/ju_j40_a1.htm
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 07:17:24 am by hesham »

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #106 on: July 18, 2014, 06:54:56 am »
Am I wrong or does the second drawing show a differnt type, called
"Fernflugboot 15" (long range flying boat 15) ?
It has a single hull with qite large auxiliary foats, whereas the J 40
is a twin hull design.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #107 on: July 18, 2014, 07:15:45 am »
Yes my dear Jemiba,


I will correct it.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #108 on: October 10, 2014, 08:16:10 am »
What was this Junkers aircraft ?,from Gallica,l'Aeronautique 1923.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #109 on: October 10, 2014, 08:22:38 am »
As the word "hydroglisseur" implies, this was strictly a watercraft. That was a very fashionable type of vehicle in the years immediately after the first world war.

Offline richard

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #110 on: October 10, 2014, 09:00:46 am »
Looks like this was using the hull of this "project" :


 

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #111 on: October 10, 2014, 09:08:48 am »
Thank you my dears Skyblazer and Richard,


and for my dear Richard,I saw this mock-up before,but where ?.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #112 on: October 27, 2014, 08:32:39 am »
Here is the W33 experimental twin in flight and a better resolution photo of the one previously posted by hesham.  Note the wood grain on the props.


Also from l'Aeronautique 1934.

Offline Wurger

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #113 on: October 27, 2014, 01:56:45 pm »
The middle photo is most interesting, with the remote transmission to the propellers. This might have flown.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #114 on: October 27, 2014, 02:16:20 pm »
The middle photo is most interesting, with the remote transmission to the propellers. This might have flown.


Yes , it flew :

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #115 on: October 27, 2014, 02:50:01 pm »
Very interesting. Do we know which plane is?

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #116 on: October 28, 2014, 02:38:15 am »
This was an experimental modification of a Ju W.33 .
This was unsuccessful .


Here , another picture showing the device :






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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #117 on: October 28, 2014, 04:14:37 am »
I recall that the essential problem with remote shafting was excessive vibration. All projects had to deal with this, and (almost) all were doomed to be either paper projects or scrapmetal.

Offline blackkite

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #118 on: October 28, 2014, 04:31:57 am »
Hi! Modified Junkers A50 long range aircraft which succeeded surprising 80hr 11404km Tokyo-Berlin flight by one Japanese pilot in 1930.
She had a additional fuel tank in covered front seat space.
Sponsor of this flight was Hochi news paper Co.Ltd.(報知新聞社)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_A50
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 05:21:55 am by blackkite »

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #119 on: November 05, 2014, 04:24:44 am »
From l'Aeronautique 1940,


here is a strange patent for Junkers.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #120 on: November 05, 2014, 04:55:19 am »
Uh... reminds me of something...  ::)


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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #121 on: November 05, 2014, 06:34:51 am »
The aircraft somehow looks like a Ju 86, so maybe those bubbles were proposed
for a pressurised high-altitude version ? The plan view gives the impression (at least
to me), that there are only bubble windows, but the detail drawing seem to show a
framed windscreen and for aircraft with conventional cockpit glazing, there seem not
to have been much need for such allround visibility.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #122 on: November 05, 2014, 11:14:38 am »
Hey Guys
 
Does anyone have information on the Ju.89 and Ju.90?
 
Cheers
Gerhard

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #123 on: November 05, 2014, 01:24:42 pm »

Does anyone have information on the Ju.89 and Ju.90?

Junkers Ju 89

When Lieutenant General Walter Wever completed the development of specifications for the heavy "Uralbomber", he met with rather powerful opposition from the planning department staff, which questioned the need for such an aircraft. Despite the doubts, the Technical Department of the Air Ministry issued an order for  "Uralbomber" designs from Dornier and Junkers in the summer of 1935 and in early autumn three prototypes were ordered, designated the Do 19 and Ju 89, respectively.

Designer Ernst Tsindel heavily rested on experience gained in creating the Ju 86 to create the Ju 89. The design used duralumin, as well as chromium-molybdenum steel for the ordnance compartments. The fuselage was monocoque with a square section, reinforced frames and stringers, and an elliptical top fairing. The wing consisted of five sections. The center section was built in one piece with the fuselage and had five spars. The inner section had five main and two auxiliary spars, while the outer had four main and three auxiliary ones. Flaps were similar to those of the tandem wing Junkers and consisted of two sections. The main landing gear units were retracted hydraulically within the rear of the nacelles.

The power plant consisted of four Junkers Jumo-211A or four Daimler-Benz DB-600A engines, all 12-cylinder, liquid-cooled types. Provision was made for a crew of nine people: two pilots, a radio operator, a bombardier, a flight engineer and five gunners. Defensive armament consisted of one gun in the forward fuselage, the same gun in the rear installation and guns in the upper and lower hydraulically-controlled twin turrets. In the bomb bay, the vertical hanger could accomodate sixteen 100-kg or thirty-two 50-kg bombs.

The first two prototypes, designated Ju 89 V1 and V2 were already in very advanced stages of construction when Lieutenant General Wever was killed in a plane crash on June 3, 1936. The premature death of the chief proponent of heavy bombers led to the nomination of Albert Kesselring, who opposed the construction of strategic aviation at this stage of development of the Luftwaffe, which he believed came at the expense of tactical aircraft. This was the main reason for discontinuing work on Ju 89 and its competitors Do 19 after Wever's death.

However, the Technical Department protested, in the person of bomber aircraft Inspector General Kurt Pflugbeil, who believed that the decision was shortsighted and pushed the case directly to Hermann Goering, expecting support from him. The insistence of the Technical Department allowed for work to continue on the prototypes but Goering knew that Hitler would ask him how many bombers there were, not how big they were... and instead of two four-engined bombers, three twin-engine bombers could be built instead. At that time the whole bomber program was revised and Tsindel had doubts about the possibility of continuing the "Uralbomber" program under the revised requirements and new specifications issued in November 1936  for the so-called Bomber "A" (just a few weeks before the first flight Ju 89 V1). As a result, the chief designer made a request to complete the incomplete Ju 89 V3 as a commercial transport aircraft instead. After five months the "Uralbomber" program was finally discontinued.

Ju.89 V1 (D-AFIT) flew in December 1936. It was equipped with four 1075hp Jumo 211A engines rated at 2300 rpm, with Junkers-Hamilton airscrews. The tests revealed some directional instability, which led to a redesigned tail. Simultaneously, additional air intakes  were installed under the outboard engines. Ju.89 V2 (D-ALAT) started tests in early 1937. Its main difference was the use of four 960hp DB-600A engines rated at 2350 rpm with VDM airscrews. By this time work had begun on alteration the third Ju 89 V3 as the transport Ju 90. The V3 had been designed with double Mauser turrets, and they had already been installed on the aircraft when the RLM issued permission to use the wings, engines, landing gear and tail for the Ju 90 V1 instead.

Flight tests of Ju 89 V1 and V2 continued until the official termination of the program on April 29, 1937. Both served as test vehicles for the development of commercial aircraft. In the summer of 1938 two records were set for lifting a 5000-kg load at 9318m altitude and 10000-kg at 7246m, officially by the  Ju 90 V1, but probably by the V2 instead, as the V1 actually crashed four months earlier, on Feb. 6, during a flutter test in which a rear auxiliary 400hp engine had been installed drives the vibrator. The loss of control over it led to uncontrolled oscillatory mode and crash. Later prototypes were converted into transports and as such used during landings of Norway as part of KG.zbV105.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #124 on: November 10, 2014, 03:40:42 am »
The book "Die grossen Dessauer: Junkers Ju 89, Ju 90, Ju 290, Ju 390.
Die Geschichte einer Flugzeugfamilie" by Karl Kössler could be an interesting
source for you, I think. Unfortunately I cannot put my hand on it in the moment,
but could send you a number of scans at the beginning od December, if that
isn't too late for you.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline Wurger

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #125 on: November 11, 2014, 08:09:33 am »
December? It works well for me :D !

Offline memaerobilia

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #126 on: November 11, 2014, 11:14:50 am »
The Junkers A50 modified long range aircraft, as reported above, was quite a bizarre and extreme modification, it would seem. the extreme increases reported are shocking.
Junkers OWN performace specifications (*from Original Junker A50 catalogue and brochure) were for an aircraft that cruised at a mere 140km(only 87mph)
the Range: 600km or 372 miles
and the claim above would appear to be for 11,404 km, range. upgraded from 600 km in normal configuration.,
and from 5 hours endurance range to 80!? does not seem possible, without multiple episodes of in-flight re-fueling. Was this the case?
« Last Edit: November 11, 2014, 11:21:37 am by memaerobilia »
Joe G.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #127 on: November 12, 2014, 02:23:50 am »
Differentiation may sometimes be a bit dificult here. I would regard the Ju 52 clearly as an interwar
type, as it actually was in wide use before the start of the war. On the other hand, the Ju 88, although
flown before the outbreak of war, I would rather count as appropriate for the "Junkers Projects and
Prototypes of WW I" thread.

« Last Edit: November 12, 2014, 03:32:32 am by Jemiba »
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #128 on: November 16, 2014, 03:30:22 am »
Interesting pictures here :


Philasearch.com: Briefmarken, Ganzsachen und Ansichtskarten


Particularly this one :




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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #129 on: November 16, 2014, 04:22:55 am »
Interesting site indeed, thanks for pointing us to it !

That flying wing resembles very much this one http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,177.msg1006.html#msg1006,
but it is described as "gedankenmäßiger Vorgang 1909", nowadays we would say, concept or idea
1909, whereas the J 1000 is stated to be from around 1919 !
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #130 on: March 13, 2015, 10:52:29 am »
"From Flugzeug 4/1993,


here is a Junkers EF.122 two Models."

I've moved this post to the thread about the Ju 287, including the pre-projcets.
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8886.msg244530.html#msg244530 )
Wasn't really a project of the 1919 - 1939 era either ...  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline bigvlada

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #131 on: May 02, 2015, 11:28:15 pm »
I was browsing some old pictures of pre-WW2 Belgrade and found this gem. This is Junkers G.38 in front of the old airport building. Modern Nikola Tesla airport is situated some 20km westward. 

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #132 on: October 28, 2016, 04:28:10 am »
The Junkerissime, not posted yet. The description is from the Spanish magazine Aérea, Apr. 1924.
(The image is a better copy found on the web.)

The Junkerissime;

http://www.avia-it.com/act/biblioteca/periodici/PDF%20Riviste/Ala%20d'Italia/L'ALA%20D'ITALIA%201922%20011.pdf

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #133 on: October 29, 2016, 06:39:37 am »
« Last Edit: October 30, 2016, 07:27:47 am by Jemiba »

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #134 on: October 30, 2016, 07:51:33 am »
The first one to my opinion isn't a Junkers type at all, but (as written in that article !) a LFG design,
fitted with a Junkers engine. Could well be the metal version of the LFG V20 mentioned here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LFG_V_20
Again, asking a native Italian speaker for help isn't embarrassing or defamatory, there may be clues
to that hydroplane (which to my opinion is just using a Junkers engine), too.  ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline hesham

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #135 on: October 30, 2016, 08:31:47 am »
What was this Junkers aircraft ?,from Gallica,l'Aeronautique 1923.

But it mentioned also by French L'Aeronautique in 1923,please see this again.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #136 on: October 30, 2016, 08:34:17 am »
May be right, haven't checked.
But for the first type it's quite evident, I think. And that was the trigger for asking
for a bit more research BEFORE posting.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #137 on: October 31, 2016, 01:26:08 am »
It is worth noting that the French word used is hydroglisseur, not hydravion.  That means the contraption is not meant to fly, but to glide on the water.
I think the closest word in English would be airboat.  Hydravion of course is seaplane or flying boat.

That explains why the thing has no horizontal tail surfaces.

Further, the text says explicitly that this airboat was used to test the engine, with a view to developing a real flying boat (hydravion).
« Last Edit: October 31, 2016, 01:29:26 am by dan_inbox »

Offline Arjen

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #138 on: October 31, 2016, 02:10:27 am »
That explains why the thing has no horizontal tail surfaces.
It seems to have no wings either.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #139 on: October 31, 2016, 04:55:51 am »
Many thanks my dears.

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #141 on: November 13, 2016, 04:24:31 pm »
Hi Ju-49.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junkers_Ju_49
"The engine was the Junkers L88a, which combined two six-cylinder inline L8 motors into an upright V-12 and had a two-stage supercharger plus intercooler to sustain power at high altitudes.

The supercharged engine was not cleared for use at the time of the first flight on October 19 and the Ju 49 used instead the unsupercharged L88 version. Externally this installation was characterised by a tall, inline vertical stack of exhausts, unlike the single sloping pipe of the L88a. By summer 1932, the supercharged engine was flight-ready and installed, and the research program proper began. This was uneventful, with no serious engine or cabin problems."

https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints-depot/ww2planes/junkers/junkers-ju-49.png
What is the bottom pipe?

Junkers L88 engine.
http://hugojunkers.pytalhost.com/ju_l88_a1.htm
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 05:53:04 pm by blackkite »

Offline Michel Van

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #142 on: November 13, 2016, 09:59:46 pm »
Hi Ju-49.
https://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints-depot/ww2planes/junkers/junkers-ju-49.png
What is the bottom pipe?

it must be part of the Supercharger
early picture of Ju-49 not feature this pipe, later the Engine was supercharged and picture from that time feature the pipe


picture taken 1 October 1931
I love Strange Technology

Offline blackkite

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #143 on: November 14, 2016, 04:27:44 am »
Ummm.......Thansk a lot. :D
http://www.airwar.ru/enc/xplane/ju49.html
"In the year 1928 Professor Hugo Junkers received an order from the Deutschen Versuchsanstalt für Luftfahrt "(DVL) on the development of experimental high-altitude surveillance aircraft. Design and construction work lasted for three years and only in the autumn of 1931 year aircraft receiving the designation Ju 49 was ready. It was a cantilever monoplane with low wing clad corrugated iron and the ailerons "double wing", which was first applied in the year 1925 the company had 4 holders. The powerplant consisted of one aircraft Junkers L88a engine with power of 800 HP for the applicability of the chetyrehlopastnyj propeller with a diameter of 5.60 meters. Such a big screw diameter made significantly lengthen landing gear.
October 2, 1931 year aircraft Ju 49 (serial number 3701, registration D-2688) made its first flight. The following year, the aircraft has undergone several improvements, and only two years later, in September 1933 year DVL took flight. This year the aircraft was able to climb up to a height of 9300 meters, and in 1935 (with the new registration number D-UBAZ obtained in the year 1934)-height of 12500 meters. A single instance of the Ju 49 was lost in an accident in the year 1936."
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 01:34:01 am by blackkite »

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #144 on: December 19, 2016, 07:41:22 am »
From the site which discover by my dear Jemiba;

http://www.draco-server.de/ADL/doc/Junkers_EF-Nummern.pdf

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #145 on: March 19, 2017, 05:48:59 am »
The Junkerissime, not posted yet. The description is from the Spanish magazine Aérea, Apr. 1924.
(The image is a better copy found on the web.)

Hi,

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k97675232.r=document%20aeronautique?rk=21459;2

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #146 on: May 24, 2017, 06:06:35 am »

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Offline Boxman

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #148 on: November 05, 2018, 07:00:54 pm »
Here is British Pathe newsreel featuring a Deutsche Luft Hansa (DLH) Junkers Ju 90 (JU 90 V3, reg. D-AURE, c/n 4915, "Bayern") performing a flight demonstration. As one of the Ju 90 prototypes, D-AURE retained the wing of the Ju 89 with a swept leading edge (unlike the predominantly straight wing used by the Ju 90 V5, and later variants) .

YouTube - British Pathé: "Flying Hotel - Germany" (1938)


Offline gabrielorosco

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Junkers Giant Twin Boom Aircraft
« Reply #149 on: January 25, 2019, 08:58:34 pm »
I've found some images of this design. Does anybody has more info and images? Thanks!

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #150 on: January 26, 2019, 02:00:50 am »
Here, too, mentioning the source would be great, both as easing further research, as well as
it should be natural to give credit to the original source.  ;)

Interesting scheme, nevertheless, with a span of 110 m, it would have been just slightly less, than
Stratolaunch ! Interesting, too, the combination of two big props in the nose of the booms with four
smaller ones at the trailing edges.
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline gabrielorosco

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #151 on: January 27, 2019, 03:28:15 pm »
Unfortunately, I don't have the source. I found those images here in SPF...nothing more. Thanks!

Offline Orionblamblam

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #152 on: January 27, 2019, 05:15:09 pm »
Here, too, mentioning the source would be great, both as easing further research, as well as
it should be natural to give credit to the original source.  ;)

Behold the wonders I give unto you:

https://archive.org/details/la02b9eronautiqu03pari/page/n2

Includes a PDF scan hundreds of pages in length, just the thing to fill that "I wonder what the world of aeronautics was like just after WWI" urge.





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And so the endless circle of life comes to an end, meaningless and grim. Why did they live, and why did they die? No reason. Two hundred million years of evolution snuffed out, for in the end Nature is horrific and teaches us nothing

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #153 on: January 28, 2019, 03:44:59 am »

Offline gabrielorosco

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #154 on: February 09, 2019, 08:34:01 pm »
Junkers Project 14 - Junkers "Ju.Y" - 100 ton transport project.
 
As with the Ju.X, no company records exist for the designation of this project in the Junker Dessau archive so Schmitt allocated "Ju.Y" to this type. The outline design plan carried the reference "F.B.5243" and "Nurflugel-Flugzeug".

It was a 1930 design for a giant transport flying wing. It was to have ten diesel engines integrated into the thick middle wing area. It was to have an intermediate transmission and extension shaft to drive the ten pusher propellers located in the trailing wing.

Does anybody has any more info on this giant junkers flying wing? Such as especifications, and more images

thanks
 
Thanks for all those information, Cy-27!
Here-under a drawing of the project Y from the book "Nurflügel" by R. Horten and P. Selinger (H. Weishaupt Verlag-1985).

Offline gabrielorosco

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Junkers Giant Flying wing airliner
« Reply #155 on: February 10, 2019, 08:05:08 pm »
Hi to all!

I would like to know if we can do more information about this 10 engine Junkers design, such as drawings and technical specs. I was able to find only this picture here in the forum. Thanks!

Online Jemiba

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #156 on: February 10, 2019, 09:23:08 pm »
In Rudolf Storck "Flying Wings" (Bernard & Graefe publishing) it's mentioned as Projekt Nr. FB 5243
from 1930, no more data, but perhaps that's an additional clue/keyword for further research.   ;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline gabrielorosco

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Re: Junkers Projects and Prototypes 1919 - 1939
« Reply #157 on: February 11, 2019, 08:28:03 am »
In Rudolf Storck "Flying Wings" (Bernard & Graefe publishing) it's mentioned as Projekt Nr. FB 5243
from 1930, no more data, but perhaps that's an additional clue/keyword for further research.   ;)

Thank you, my dear friend. I'll use this new information
Cheers