Iraq's Full Final and Complete Disclosure

Mercurius Cantabrigiensis

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What happened to Iraq’s notorious Full Final and Complete Disclosure to the UN regarding its missile and WMD programmes? If my memory is correct, it was a massive document of some 12,000 words, and the initial excuse for not releasing it was that some of the data might be useful to other proliferators.

Has a suitably redacted version ever been released?
 
Mercurius Cantabrigiensis said:
What happened to Iraq’s notorious Full Final and Complete Disclosure to the UN regarding its missile and WMD programmes? If my memory is correct, it was a massive document of some 12,000 words, and the initial excuse for not releasing it was that some of the data might be useful to other proliferators.

Has a suitably redacted version ever been released?

This is probably what you are looking for:
http://cryptome.org/0001/iraq-ffcd.htm

The "12,000 pages" quote is misleading, most of that is supplementary material. The equivalent of receipts. Iraq submitted FFCDs yearly to the UN, and there were separate FFCDs for biological weapons, ballistic missiles, etc. This was part of the requirements of security council resolution 687.
 
That document covers only the chemical-warfare programme. My interest is in the missile programmes. For example, almost nothing has appeared in print about a SAM programme called 'Saddam's Arrow'.
 
Mercurius Cantabrigiensis said:
That document covers only the chemical-warfare programme. My interest is in the missile programmes. For example, almost nothing has appeared in print about a SAM programme called 'Saddam's Arrow'.

That would not be covered by the scope of the UN resolutions. Ballistic missiles with a range of greater than 150 km would have been.
 
I was only using Saddam's Arrow as an example of a programme on which little was known other than its name. It was allegedly a MANPADS, and details must be lurking in various UNMOVIC files - another repository of data on Iraqi missile programmes that seems not to be publicly accessible. Only the 150+ km range programmes were covered in UNMOVIC's final compendium report.
 
Dear all,
I just asked to the UN archives the access to the Iraq missile FFCD, the last one provided in 1996. They replied that I have to wait

30 years if the document is considered "confidential"
60 years if considered "strictly confidential"

but... starting from 2008 !!! So the 1996 missile FFCD will be more than 50 years old if released in 2038 (if the considered it only confidential).

More information can be found here:

http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=ST/SGB/2009/12.

Section 6, in particular, outlines the conditions for early access to these records.
So, if you are not a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) or the World Health Organization (WHO), you have to wait a loooong time.

Cheers

Temistocle
 
Temistocle said:
Dear all,
I just asked to the UN archives the access to the Iraq missile FFCD, the last one provided in 1996. They replied that I have to wait

30 years if the document is considered "confidential"
60 years if considered "strictly confidential"

but... starting from 2008 !!! So the 1996 missile FFCD will be more than 50 years old if released in 2038 (if the considered it only confidential).

More information can be found here:

http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=ST/SGB/2009/12.

Section 6, in particular, outlines the conditions for early access to these records.
So, if you are not a member of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) or the World Health Organization (WHO), you have to wait a loooong time.

Cheers

Temistocle

I just read the U.N. paper you linked. Those rules they used seem WAY out of proportion for any "damage" the documents may cause.

I'm thinking about emailing this organization to see what it takes to bend the rules a little because 30 to 60 year release dates for "Confidential" info is just ******* extreme. :mad:
 
Long release dates for this kind of material might also be related to safety of the sources. People mentioned as sources might very easily lose their heads in Iraq or even worse their relatives might suffer.
 
I know the situation in Iraq is difficult, but a report like the missile FFCD could be "sanitized", erasing the names of the sources. The NSA, CIA and other USA government agency online websites are full of redacted documents, sometimes more recent that the FFCDs.
I read very quickly the 1996 chemical FFCD linked before (368 pages), and:

1) the FFCD seems to be "leaked", so it is not redacted;
2) they are talking about programs running in the '70 and '80, ended at the beginning of '90, so more than 25 years old.
3) I did not find Iraqi sources or names, apart for some "big bosses" already know form other documents/news
4) I am not a chemist, but it seems that nothing there is useful (or already known) to create a chemical bomb
4) there are the names of a lot of companies dealing with chemical compounds

So, maybe, they want to "protect" the industries?? But it is only my guess. ;D
In Italy we say" a pensar male si fa peccato, ma ci si azzecca".
 
Hi,
just another "piece" of bureaucracy...
I asked to the DTIC librarians a JPRS translation of a book edited in Russia many years ago (I know it exist because it is mentioned in an historical article).
Keep in mind that the book:

1) is a personal account of soviet radar, available on the Russian market since 1982;
2) can be find in original language online (http://hist.rloc.ru/): I can use Google translate, but an official translation would be absolutely better;
3) was printed in 1982, 35 years ago, so nothing secret inside it.

And this is the answer from DTIC:

"DTIC does have this document in its collection. Unfortunately, it is only available to U.S. Federal Government Employees."

MAYBE I can understand why they do not give access to this file for people outside the USA like me (i.e. the payed a translator in the eighties withe the US taxes, and they do not want other countries to take advantage of US money), but why limit the access only to "U.S. Federal Government Employees" and not to all US citizens?
I do not need an answer, it is only an outburst ... :-X
 
Temistocle said:
Hi,
just another "piece" of bureaucracy...
I asked to the DTIC librarians a JPRS translation of a book edited in Russia many years ago (I know it exist because it is mentioned in an historical article).
Keep in mind that the book:

1) is a personal account of soviet radar, available on the Russian market since 1982;
2) can be find in original language online (http://hist.rloc.ru/): I can use Google translate, but an official translation would be absolutely better;
3) was printed in 1982, 35 years ago, so nothing secret inside it.

And this is the answer from DTIC:

"DTIC does have this document in its collection. Unfortunately, it is only available to U.S. Federal Government Employees."

MAYBE I can understand why they do not give access to this file for people outside the USA like me (i.e. the payed a translator in the eighties withe the US taxes, and they do not want other countries to take advantage of US money), but why limit the access only to "U.S. Federal Government Employees" and not to all US citizens?
I do not need an answer, it is only an outburst ... :-X

Sorry about that. Have you explained the situation to them, that it is fully available in its original language? They may just be lazy, and don't want to take the time to scan it into PDF form? How can an openly published BOOK be FOUO? You should give them another chance and explain to them the situation.
 
John21 said:
Temistocle said:
Hi,
just another "piece" of bureaucracy...
I asked to the DTIC librarians a JPRS translation of a book edited in Russia many years ago (I know it exist because it is mentioned in an historical article).
Keep in mind that the book:

1) is a personal account of soviet radar, available on the Russian market since 1982;
2) can be find in original language online (http://hist.rloc.ru/): I can use Google translate, but an official translation would be absolutely better;
3) was printed in 1982, 35 years ago, so nothing secret inside it.

And this is the answer from DTIC:

"DTIC does have this document in its collection. Unfortunately, it is only available to U.S. Federal Government Employees."

MAYBE I can understand why they do not give access to this file for people outside the USA like me (i.e. the payed a translator in the eighties withe the US taxes, and they do not want other countries to take advantage of US money), but why limit the access only to "U.S. Federal Government Employees" and not to all US citizens?
I do not need an answer, it is only an outburst ... :-X

Sorry about that. Have you explained the situation to them, that it is fully available in its original language? They may just be lazy, and don't want to take the time to scan it into PDF form? How can an openly published BOOK be FOUO? You should give them another chance and explain to them the situation.

Couple of points.

1) The original document would still be under copyright, so the translation is presumably unauthorized. That is a legal issue that can be dodged somewhat by only making it available to US government personnel.

2) Translations can be FOUO, especially if they are annotated in any way.
 
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