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Author Topic: Little-Known French Projects and Prototypes  (Read 100515 times)

Offline cluttonfred

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #180 on: June 03, 2015, 09:55:34 pm »
A fighter Pou du Ciel?  Now that I'd like to see!
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Offline avion ancien

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #181 on: June 04, 2015, 01:57:54 am »
Are we talking about the Kellner-Béchereau E-60? I know of no Béchereau design that employed the Formule Mignet and I think it unlikely that he would do so. In terms of size, one might say that the Pou de Ciel could have 'inspired' the E-60 - but that does seem to stretch a point. Furthermore, the E-60 was a fighter trainer, rather than a fighter, and didn't fly until some five years after the date mentioned in the TU extract posted by Hesham.

It's certainly fair to say that after forming his company with Georges Kellner, Louis Béchereau designed and Kellner-Béchereau produced some rather unorthodox aeroplanes, such as the E-5 (q.v. http://www.the-blueprints.com/fr/blueprints/modernplanes/modern-jk/18389/view/kellner-bechereau_e-5/), and in a company document currently being offered for sale (q.v. http://www.priceminister.com/offer/buy/449283153/dossier-confidentiel-avions-kellner-bechereau-type-e-c-4-e1-de-kellner-bechereau.html) apparently there's mention of a type EC4 or C4E or CE4 (to none of which can I find any other reference). So whilst I know one should never say never, I remain rather sceptical about there having been - even if only on paper - a Béchereau Formule Mignet Chasseur.   

Offline hesham

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #182 on: June 04, 2015, 04:42:13 am »
My dear Avion,


here is a more info about E.4 from TU magazine issue 138.

Offline avion ancien

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #183 on: June 04, 2015, 05:11:58 am »
Thank you, Hesham. The E.4 is relatively well known and it may be to this, in addition to the E.1, that the document for sale refers. But the document apparently refers to the second type, with which it deals, as the EC4/C4E/CE4. However this may be something of a 'red herring'. But I'm not prepared to fork out 99 € to find out!

Offline hesham

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #184 on: June 04, 2015, 05:17:55 am »
OK my dear Avion,


and here is a small Info about EC.4 from A-Z magazine.

Offline avion ancien

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #185 on: June 04, 2015, 05:36:24 am »
Thank you, again, Hesham. However to get back to the point - having spent some time on this enjoyable tangent - there's still no evidence that Louis Béchereau did come up with a fighter aeroplane design that was inspired by the Pou de Ciel, which I would deduce to mean that it employed the Formule Mignet, beyond the oblique reference in TU.

Offline hesham

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #186 on: June 05, 2015, 01:51:44 pm »
Hi,


a French designer called Boutiron created a seaplane project in 1920s,does anyone
hear about it ?.

Offline cluttonfred

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #187 on: June 06, 2015, 05:30:31 am »
Mignet connections aside, the spit-wing approach of the KB E-5 is intriguing. If anyone can point me to any contemporary articles, flight test reports or other info, I'd be very grateful.
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Offline hesham

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #188 on: June 06, 2015, 05:51:21 am »
My dear Cluttonfred,


here is all I have about E-5 & ED-5.

Offline hesham

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #189 on: June 09, 2015, 05:28:21 am »
Hi,


the Guillemin JG.11 was derivative of JG.10 as a tourist aircraft,powered by one
120 hp Renault 4 Pdi engine.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 05:12:38 am by hesham »

Offline cluttonfred

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #190 on: June 09, 2015, 09:54:37 pm »
That's Guillemin with two Ls, Hesham.
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Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #191 on: June 10, 2015, 04:32:56 am »
That's Guillemin with two Ls, Hesham

Exactly, and it makes quite a difference on the pronunciation, too, as the double "L" in such words is pronounced like the English "Y" ("baille" for instance is pronounced like "by" / "abeille" like "ah-bay" / "douillet" like "doo-yeah").

Offline hesham

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #192 on: June 10, 2015, 06:03:49 am »
Fixed.

Offline hesham

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #193 on: June 20, 2015, 08:41:00 am »
Hi,


the French little known projects before WW1,the Alvaerz et de Conde,three aircraft;


1. Seaplane or flyingboat, model only.

2. An odd high-wing flyingboat with streamlined hull and pointed nose, fabricated from 2 layers of cedrat, a kind of lemon-wood, with fabric in between; the pilot was enclosed along with the engine which drove 2 pusher propellers set on the trailing edge. 4 windows provided him with a view, and small winglets provided stability on the water. The low-aspect-ratio wing was in 3 panels with large ailerons, and was supported on the struts based on special floats; it was entirely of metal construction without welding. The machine was tested around August 1913 at Bellevue on the Seine; the results are not known.  (Span: 12 m; chord: 2.2 m; wing area: 26.5 sqm, Eiffel No 8 airfoil; length: 8.4 m; winglet span: 5.7 m; 60 hp watercooled engine).   

3. Existed in proposal only: an all-steel 3-seater armored amphibian combat aircraft for the Navy. It featured an auxiliary 8 hp motor to power the radio, and to start the main engine.

http://flyingmachines.ru/Site2/Crafts/Craft29166.htm
« Last Edit: June 20, 2015, 08:43:19 am by hesham »

Offline hesham

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Re: Little-known French projects and prototypes
« Reply #194 on: August 15, 2015, 11:02:28 am »
From AFM 01 magazine,


who can ID this strange French aircraft as I think,there is two different pictures to it,maybe they are
the same but after modifications ?!.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2015, 11:04:08 am by hesham »