Sukhoi Su-57 Deployment to Syria

kaiserd

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Media reports of some kind of “testing” deployment to Syria:

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/22/new-russian-stealth-fighter-spotted-in-syria

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/world/922376/Russia-su-57-war-planes-Vladimir-Putin-Syria/amp

https://www.google.ie/amp/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/feb/22/russia-tests-new-su-57-stealth-fighter-over-war-we/
 
;)
 

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  • RuAF T50 - Su-57 at Hmeimim AB - 20180223.jpg
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http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/18693/did-russia-just-send-some-of-its-su-57-stealth-fighters-to-syria

https://twitter.com/WaelAlHussaini/status/966456661308248065
-> he posted video that Su-57 lands on Syria
 
Seems like the Russians deployed the Su-50 in reaction to the a$$ whipping they received on the ground at the hands of the American led forces a couple of weeks ago.

"...U.S. forces killed scores of Russian mercenaries in Syria last week in what may be the deadliest clash between citizens of the former foes since the Cold War, according to one U.S. official and three Russians familiar with the matter.

More than 200 contract soldiers, mostly Russians fighting on behalf of Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad, died in a failed attack on a base held by U.S. and mainly Kurdish forces in the oil-rich Deir Ezzor region, two of the Russians said. The U.S. official put the death toll in the fighting at about 100, with 200 to 300 injured, but was unable to say how many were Russians."
 
VH said:
Seems like the Russians deployed the Su-50 in reaction to the a$$ whipping they received on the ground at the hands of the American led forces a couple of weeks ago.

"...U.S. forces killed scores of Russian mercenaries in Syria last week in what may be the deadliest clash between citizens of the former foes since the Cold War, according to one U.S. official and three Russians familiar with the matter.

More than 200 contract soldiers, mostly Russians fighting on behalf of Syrian leader Bashar al-Assad, died in a failed attack on a base held by U.S. and mainly Kurdish forces in the oil-rich Deir Ezzor region, two of the Russians said. The U.S. official put the death toll in the fighting at about 100, with 200 to 300 injured, but was unable to say how many were Russians."

I don't see how that would help. If they had any tactical utility at all it might be in providing airborne warning and control to help with deconfliction.

It is likely for prestige and military sales reasons - although they might be also trying to test their radars up against the F-22s which are operating in the area - trying to catch a peak at their effectiveness.
 
It seems very reasonable to me that they'd be testing the sensors, sensor fusion systems, etc; where else can Russia fly its aircraft amongst F-16s, F-15s, F/A-18s, F-22s, E-3s, B-1Bs, etc (as well as a myriad of ground vehicles moving about, assuming the PAK-FA has things like GMTI radar modes) over allied-owned airspace, and without crossing oceans, or without starting WW3?
 
Your points about testing sensors and showcasing the Su-57 for the world seem valid. However the timing for this deployment to Syria is the question. Why now?
 
Re: JPost 2/25/18-Does anyone have a better source and/or details?
Best Regards,
Artie Bob
 
VH said:
Your points about testing sensors and showcasing the Su-57 for the world seem valid. However the timing for this deployment to Syria is the question. Why now?

The answer is fairly basic, why not? It may be so simple as they were not ready to do deploy. The deployment action makes perfect sense in that it is really an extension of the testing program where the S-57 can actually test against real adversaries. Moreover, the best adversaries in the world without starting WWIII.
 
"The answer is fairly basic, why not? It may be so simple as they were not ready to do deploy. The deployment action makes perfect sense in that it is really an extension of the testing program where the S-57 can actually test against real adversaries. Moreover, the best adversaries in the world without starting WWIII."

Would you deploy your advanced aircraft like the Su-57 to a war zone like Syria where it could encounter its direct rival, the F-22, if it were not ready? If this is a Russian test program it seems fraught with danger, with potential exposure to embarrassment for all the world to see. An engine fire like the Russians experienced before would be devastating. Russia is under pressure to turn the Su-57 into a commercial success and win orders. It smells like desperation on the part of the Russians to remain relevant in the hi-technology arena. Its very risky. Russia wants to be a player.
 
VH said:
"The answer is fairly basic, why not? It may be so simple as they were not ready to do deploy. The deployment action makes perfect sense in that it is really an extension of the testing program where the S-57 can actually test against real adversaries. Moreover, the best adversaries in the world without starting WWIII."

Would you deploy your advanced aircraft like the Su-57 to a war zone like Syria where it could encounter its direct rival, the F-22, if it were not ready? If this is a Russian test program it seems fraught with danger, with potential exposure to embarrassment for all the world to see. An engine fire like the Russians experienced before would be devastating. Russia is under pressure to turn the Su-57 into a commercial success and win orders. It smells like desperation on the part of the Russians to remain relevant in the hi-technology arena. Its very risky. Russia wants to be a player.

It's a little bit of chest pounding by the Ruskies. "Hey look we deployed SU-57s and your F-35 in development for 20 years is still nowhere to be found." And they are trying to keep India as a customer. And frankly speaking, why isn't the F-35 deployed after all these years? The USAF alone has (I think) 200 which is more than they have of the dash 22.

The odds of a Su-57 being in the air at the same time and same vicinity of a F-22 is nearly 0%. Doubtful that it's to paint a F-22 with SU-57 radar. First of all how would they know there is a F-22 in the air and where it's at?
 
It does indeed make sense that they would want it there to get info on F-16s, F-18s, etc. How stealthy is Su-57 against adversaries? How does it perform in real world conditions, maintenance, etc.

Russians must feel confident enough in platform and engines to use it there, and who knows maybe get near an F-22 (and why wouldn't that possibly happen? A lowly Su-25 Frogfoot got near enough to read the name tag of the F-22 pilot)

Would the Su-57 be using any ordinance, missiles, bombs? Have not seen a test of that yet. There are no real pictures even of its bay.

On the flip side, wouldn't a Super Hornet or F-22 love to "paint" an Su-57 with radar if they could find it?
 
I don't think it's that risky. Why would an engine fire be anymore devastating than any other developmental hiccup with emerging combat aircraft? If a failure is bound to happen why would it be worse in Syria than Siberia?
 
_Del_ said:
I don't think it's that risky. Why would an engine fire be anymore devastating than any other developmental hiccup with emerging combat aircraft? If a failure is bound to happen why would it be worse in Syria than Siberia?
The risk mind you would be that if they eject over the wrong parts of Syria, the pilots could get killed. Obviously these planes will be escorted and Russia would have a lot of air cover for the pilots, but again; if it's over the wrong area, the Russian rescue force could be too slow.

Testing in the middle of nowhere during a Russian winter also obviously has its own risks, but at least rescue choppers aren't at likely to get shot down.
 
Dragon029 said:
_Del_ said:
I don't think it's that risky. Why would an engine fire be anymore devastating than any other developmental hiccup with emerging combat aircraft? If a failure is bound to happen why would it be worse in Syria than Siberia?
The risk mind you would be that if they eject over the wrong parts of Syria, the pilots could get killed. Obviously these planes will be escorted and Russia would have a lot of air cover for the pilots, but again; if it's over the wrong area, the Russian rescue force could be too slow.

Testing in the middle of nowhere during a Russian winter also obviously has its own risks, but at least rescue choppers aren't at likely to get shot down.

Well, yes. Flying in combat zones isn't exactly life insurance as the saying goes. I just don't see the "devastating" risk to the program due to engine fires, etc as was being asserted earlier in the thread.
 
I suppose one way that it could potentially be "devastating" is if Khmeimim Air Base is shelled and both jets are destroyed while parked (unlikely, but jets have been damaged there in that way previously) - losing what I would presume to be the best 2 of 10 flying airframes could potentially set them back something like a year, but I'm not sure I'd consider that devastating.
 
Looks to me this deployment is more like a long range flight test and purely demonstration. I think it's followed the Soviet practice like Su-25's and early test of Ka-50's.

we'll see if it's got any chance to drop some KAB-500-S.
 
SpudmanWP said:
Another mass RC-plane sized drone attack?
The clickbait would write itself - "Advanced 5th generation fighters defeated by remote control toys".

Fortunately for Russia it seems the groups attempting to deploy these systems are either lacking in resources, knowledge, or both; I've got a relatively cheap consumer autopilot (that's a few years old) sitting about a metre from me that would likely have made it within a few tens of metres (or less) of its target (even with the comms and GPS jamming the Russians supposedly used) if it'd been placed into one of their drones.
 
I also assume we'll see at least two widely spaced hardened aircraft shelters appear pretty quickly in satellite photos...
 
kcran567 said:
It does indeed make sense that they would want it there to get info on F-16s, F-18s, etc. How stealthy is Su-57 against adversaries? How does it perform in real world conditions, maintenance, etc.

Russians must feel confident enough in platform and engines to use it there, and who knows maybe get near an F-22 (and why wouldn't that possibly happen? A lowly Su-25 Frogfoot got near enough to read the name tag of the F-22 pilot)

Would the Su-57 be using any ordinance, missiles, bombs? Have not seen a test of that yet. There are no real pictures even of its bay.

On the flip side, wouldn't a Super Hornet or F-22 love to "paint" an Su-57 with radar if they could find it?

I suspect that the deployment is more political than practical. There is always pressure to get an expensive new airplane into the field for photos. Given the economic situation in Russia, the high costs and poor export potential of the air frame, the need to protect the reputations of those responsible for developing it, and the desire to show that Russia is still a first-rate power, deploying the Su-57 was probably inevitable. Come to think of it, these probably aren't all that different from the reasons for deploying the F-22.
 
I don't think it really compares; sending 2 airframes to perform a few sorties (which included combat testing, but which may or may not have included any weapons releases) over 2 days is far less demanding from a maintenance, logistics and security standpoint than having rotating several-month-long deployments for years and performing over a thousand sorties, dropping over 1500 weapons, etc.

I'm not saying that there was no political / sales intent behind the Su-57's deployment, but unless the PAK-FA did something particularly impressive during its trials, I don't think (eg) Indian Air Force brass will be particularly impressed by the deployment; instead it might just be something for (eg) Indian civilian officials to use as general supporting material to push for procuring the Su-57.
 
Avimimus said:
I also assume we'll see at least two widely spaced hardened aircraft shelters appear pretty quickly in satellite photos...

Hardened?
By plastic and air..thats it.
 
At least one Israeli source indicates there were two deliveries several days apart of Su-57s to Syria for a total of 4 aircraft. Can anyone confirm or comment?

Artie Bob
 
GJ33 said:
Avimimus said:
I also assume we'll see at least two widely spaced hardened aircraft shelters appear pretty quickly in satellite photos...

Hardened?
By plastic and air..thats it.

I guess I assume wrong.

It is what I'd do though...
 
Artie Bob said:
At least one Israeli source indicates there were two deliveries several days apart of Su-57s to Syria for a total of 4 aircraft. Can anyone confirm or comment?

Artie Bob
there were two
 
nice, my post got censored, just because I said some unnerving truths about Vlad Putin... "Il n'est de pire sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre" as we say in French :mad: :mad:
 
Avimimus said:
GJ33 said:
Avimimus said:
I also assume we'll see at least two widely spaced hardened aircraft shelters appear pretty quickly in satellite photos...

Hardened?
By plastic and air..thats it.

I guess I assume wrong.

Apart from going very deep underground, is anything in the way of aircraft pen/shelter truly hardened and able to withstand anything chucked at it?

It is what I'd do though...
 
Archibald said:
nice, my post got censored, just because I said some unnerving truths about Vlad Putin... "Il n'est de pire sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre" as we say in French :mad: :mad:

Archibald - just because I'm tired of politics spreading over the forum I've deleted not only your post but three other posted as reply.
There are plenty of other places to discuss it.
We have factoid and we can discuss it not going into problems of global policy making in Syria.
Most of forum members have enough IQ to understand all pro at contra of various systems deployment in this conflict, depending on his own political views (and keep it for his own or other forums as was said before).
 
flateric said:
Archibald said:
nice, my post got censored, just because I said some unnerving truths about Vlad Putin... "Il n'est de pire sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre" as we say in French :mad: :mad:

Archibald - just because I'm tired of politics spreading over the forum I've deleted not only your post but three other posted as reply.
There are plenty of other places to discuss it.
We have factoid and we can discuss it not going into problems of global policy making in Syria.
Most of forum members have enough IQ to understand all pro at contra of various systems deployment in this conflict, depending on his own political views (and keep it for his own or other forums as was said before).

As we say in America "What flateric said." And now back to our regularly scheduled Su-57 thread... please.
 

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