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Author Topic: Avions Marcel Dassault (MD) designations  (Read 36694 times)

Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #15 on: February 18, 2007, 03:03:10 pm »
Quote from: Archibald
The Jericho missiles were designed by Dassault, that's a proven fact  ;).
That is only true for the Jericho-1 of the 60s.
By the time the Jericho-2 was was developped, France had long-since betrayed Israel and allied with its Arab customers.  And in the meantime Israel had developed the Shavit satellite launchers.

In fact, there was so much suspicion lingering from those times that the 2nd generation Yericho were developed and implemented in a separate base.

(The sale of an A-bomb factory to Saddam in the 1970s by prime minister Jacques Chirac did not help)



And as for the Résistance codename of Marcel's brother the general, it was "charre d'assaut", which was a double entendre in French. (meaning both "tank" and "giant hoax")

And all this does not make me feel any younger...

Offline Archibald

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #16 on: February 19, 2007, 03:51:02 am »
Hmmm no politics here.  >:(
Others countries armed dictators, so why reproaching that to France only ?

No A-bomb factory in Iraq, just civilian nuclear reactors (the Osirak nuclear plant, named at the time O-chirac , that's true ;D ).

Dassault helped built the Jericho-1, the Jericho-2 and shavit were improved variants by Israel alone (where's the problem ? )

About the betrayal... never heard about realpolitik ? De Gaulle has understood, 6 years before the Yom Kippur war that western world economies (including France)  heavily depended from oil.  Where's oil located ? in Arab countries, not Israel. Like it or not, this was Realpolitik... and De Gaulle was good at this game (this not mean that i like De Gaulle nor real politik, this is very cynical...)

Let's go back to the Dassault designation numbers...




Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Archibald

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2007, 03:52:20 am »
And, sorry for that, but "charre" means nothing in french (certainly not big hoax ???).
(do you mean charade ? )
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline Jemiba

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #18 on: February 19, 2007, 05:26:41 am »
Well, selling nuclear reactors isn't a threat to the piece in a region only, if
the buyer already has enough such equipment ... but then he probably
won't buy such technology at all ...   ;D
Selling equipment for the chemical industry can mean boosting the agriculture
by producing more and better fertilizers and pesticides, but it also can mean
poisoning revolting minorities (the german industry is very experienced in this
field ..)
And supporting the enemy of once owns enemy can bring victory, but may
produce the new enemy for the time after ... the Taliban were at least partially
former Mudjahedin, the admired and supported foes of the soviet army in
Afghanistan and Bin Laden was agent and trustee of .. sorry, I forgot for
which country ... 
Political decisions are mostly based on economics and seldom aimed at times
longer than, say 3 to 5 years.
What comes then, is out of the legislative period !

But sorry, we are completely off topic again ! We were speaking about
Dassault designation numbers, weren't we ?   
;)
It takes a long time, before all mistakes are made ...

Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #19 on: February 19, 2007, 06:38:42 am »
Quote
And, sorry for that, but "charre" means nothing in french (certainly not big hoax ???).
Ah, maybe you are too young to have known it, my friend. Good for you.  ::)

"Charre" used to mean the same thing as "bobard", "pipo", bidon, etc, as my trusty old Larousse remembers:


Charre fell in disuse some time in the 60s. Probably at about the time the pieds-noirs returned, when lots of colloquialisms changed. The younger ones might still be familiar with one form of it: "charrier", as in faut pas charrier grand-mère:D
(for the non-Froggies, charrier means ribbing or pulling the leg).

Soooo, general Bloch had a definite panache in choosing his nom de guerre.
(actually, both brothers had panache in many things. Quite tall figures)

And now, back to our regularly scheduled MD-number research about SMB4...


Offline Archibald

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #20 on: February 20, 2007, 01:57:44 am »
- Charre- old french (from the 60's. Older than me, didn't know about the word.  ::)

The Vautour was also proposed in robot variants.
Conservatoire de l'Air et de l'Espace d'Aquitaine
http://www.caea.info/en/plan.php

Profanity: weaker mind trying to speak forcefully

Political correctness: just bury your head in the sand for the sake of appeasement and "peace for our time"
- https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serge_Dassault#Affaires_

Offline MIRAGE 4000

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2007, 01:44:23 pm »
I find the information in the book published by the GIFAS  in 1982 (where Y could find  the Nord Aviation M4 and many another "what if" french planes)

Offline hesham

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #22 on: September 27, 2010, 04:34:36 am »
Hi,

MD-660 was two-stage solid-propellent surface-to-surface
            bombardment missile,it had been developed by the
            Marcel Dassault under contract from the Israeli
            government,the beginning was in 1968.

The Jericho surface-to-surface weapon was given the
designation MD-620.

Offline dan_inbox

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Re: Dassault MD numbers for the SMB2 & SMB4 ?
« Reply #23 on: September 27, 2010, 06:35:26 pm »
MD-660 was two-stage solid-propellent surface-to-surface bombardment missile,it had been developed by the Marcel Dassault under contract from the Israeli government,the beginning was in 1968.

The Jericho surface-to-surface weapon was given the designation MD-620.
MD-620 was the basis for Jericho-1, and MD-660 for Jericho-2 and Shavit.

Offline Skyblazer

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Known BLOCH and DASSAULT model numbers
« Reply #24 on: April 19, 2011, 06:11:38 am »
Known DASSAULT model numbers:

Avions Marcel Dassault / Dassault Aviation

MD.80  ABC (single engined trainer)
MD.303  ten-passenger military multi-purpose light transport based on the Bloch MB.30 design, first flown 10 February 1947 (1 built)
MD.311  Flamant III bombing, navigation and photography training aircraft, former MB.301 (39 built)
MD.312  Flamant II six-seat transport/liaison aircraft (1950) (142 built)
MD.312B  experimental version with heavier loaded weight (1 built)
MD.315  Flamant I 10-seat colonial communication/utility aircraft, former MB.303 (137 built)
MD.315B  Flamant
MD.316(X)  Flamant, one MD 315 aircraft fitted with two 820-hp (611-kW) SNECMA 14X Super Mars radial piston engines
MD.316T  Flamant, one prototype fitted with a single-finned tail, and two 800-hp (597-kW) Wright R-1300-CB7A1 Cyclone radial piston engine   
MD.320  Hirondelle 14-seat all-metal low-wing monoplane utility transport aircraft with swept vertical tail (1968) (1 built)
MD.410  Spirale prototype military transport (1 built)
MD.415  Communauté prototype light transport (1 built)   
MD.417  (MD.430 with 2 x Bastan turboprops)
MD.420  enlarged MD.320 derivative with Astazou turbines   
MD.430  twin engined COIN   
MD.450  Ouragan, first French-designed jet fighter-bomber (3 built)
MD.450  Ouragan
MD.450A  Ouragan, first production version (50 built)
MD.450B  Ouragan, main production version with Hispano-Suiza-built Nene 104B engine, revised two-section nose landing gear doors
MD.450R  Ouragan   reconnaissance variant (1 built)
MD.450-30L  Ouragan, pre-production prototype fitted with a SNECMA Atar 101b engine, air intakes on the sides (1 built)
MD.451  Aladin / Harmattan two-seat night fighter derivative of the Ouragan
MD.452  Mystère I advanced derivative of Ouragan powered by the Rolls-Royce Tay 250 centrifugal-flow turbojet (3 built)
MD.452  Mystère IIA prototypes powered by the Tay and armed with four Hispano 20 mm cannon (2 built)
MD.452  Mystère IIB prototypes which traded the four 20 millimeter cannon for two 30 millimeter DEFA revolver-type cannon (4 built)
MD.452  Mystère IIC pre-production machines (11 built) and production version (150 built)
MD.452M  Mystère II, no details      
MD.452W  Mystère II, no details      
MD.453  Mystère IIIN night fighter version, also known as the Mystère de Nuit (1 built)
MD.454  Mystère IV fighter-bomber prototype powered by a Rolls-Royce Tay 250 engine (1 built)
MD.454  Mystère IVA production version, first transonic aircraft to enter service in French Air Force (421 built)
MD.454  Mystère IVB upgraded variant with Rolls-Royce Avon or SNECMA Atar 101, afterburning engine and radar ranging gunsight (6 built)
MD.454  Mystère IVN two-seat all-weather interceptor version (1 built)
MD.455  Spirale III proposed high-wing transport version of MD.410 (not built)
MD.460  pre-project of Super Mystère (or Mystère I?)   
MD.460 TT  Super Mystère      
MD.472  
MD.473  
MD.474  
MD.475  
MD.500  transport design, 4 x Nene jet engines (1948-49)
MD.550  Mirage I (initially called the Mystere Delta)
MD.560  delta wing fighter design, 1 x ATAR 101 G engine (1953)
MD.600  transport design, 4 x G&R 14R engines (1948-49)
MD.610  Cavalier      
MD.620(1)  Cavalier STOL variant (1959-60)
MD.620(2)  Jericho surface-to-surface missile (was the basis for Jericho-1) (1965)
MD.620(3)  STOL fighter bomber   
MD.630  Cavalier STOL variant (1959-60)
MD.650(1)  transport design, 4 x G&R 14R engines (1948-49)
MD.650(2)  delta fighter design, 1 x Avon or SNECMA Vulcain jet engine (1952)
MD-660  two-stage solid-propellant surface-to-surface bombardment missile,
             developed under contract from the Israeli government (basis for Jericho-2 and Shavit) (1968)
MD.742  fighter project
MD.743  Mach 3 project   
MD.744  Mach 3 project   
MD.745  Mach 3 project   
MD.746  Mach 3 project   
MD.747  Mach 3 project   
MD.748  Mach 3 project   
MD.749  Mach 3 project   
MD.750  Mach 3 project   
MD.751  Mach 3 project   
MD.800  twin-engine naval VG design, for NATO navies (1964)
MD.900  transport design, 3/2 x ATAR jet engines (1951)
MD.921  twin-engine VG design, competitor of the SEPECAT Jaguar (1964)
MD.922  twin-engine VG design, competitor of the SEPECAT Jaguar (1964)
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 05:05:08 pm by Stargazer2006 »

Offline Retrofit

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Re: Bloch (MB) and Dassault (MD) designations
« Reply #25 on: April 19, 2011, 07:57:51 am »
Dassault designation for jet engine:
MD-30R (licenced version of the A. Siddeley "Viper") installed on the MD-550 Mirage I
« Last Edit: April 19, 2011, 08:03:04 am by Retrofit »

Offline Jos Heyman

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Re: Bloch (MB) and Dassault (MD) designations
« Reply #26 on: April 19, 2011, 03:15:11 pm »
I have the following additions:

SEA-2: two seat reconnaissance and fighter aircraft that did not fly
SEA-3: Three seat reconnaissance aircraft which did not fly.
MB.30: Twin engined communications aircraft for eight passengers.   
MB.93: Civilian registrations included F-AMBO.
MB.163: Development of MB.162. Not built.
MB.171: Development of the MB.170.
MB.172: Development of the MB.170.
MB.173: Development of the MB.170.
MB.203: Version of MB.200. Prototype only.
MB.480: Reconnaissance seaplane which flew for the first time in June 1939. Two were built.
MB.500: Three seat training aircraft of which one was built and flew for the first time in June 1938.
MB.700: Fighter aircraft of which one was built and flew on 19 April 1940.
MB.800: Three seat light training aircraft. One was built. It later developed into the SNCASO S.O.80 and S.O.90.
MB.900: Became S.O.90 under which designation it was built.
MB.1010: Fighter project from 1939. Not built. Also known as S.O.10.
MB.1011: Development of the MB.1010 which was not built. Also known as S.O.11.
MB.1020: Proposed commercial transport for 20 passengers. Not built although by June 1040 a fuselage was completed. Also known as S.O.20
MB.1030: Also known as S.O.30 under which designation it was built.
MB.1040: Two seat version of the MB.1010. Not built. Also known as S.O.40.
MD.303 Flamant: Based on the Bloch M.B.30 design, the M.D.303 was a military multi-purpose transport. It flew for the first time on 10 February 1947. Only one was built.


Offline Skyblazer

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Re: Avions Marcel Dassault (MD) designations
« Reply #27 on: April 19, 2011, 05:19:35 pm »
Thanks a lot Jos! I've added your information to the lists.

After giving it some thought, I decided to further split this thread into two separate topics, one dedicated to Bloch and the other to Dassault. This should lead to a much more satisfying understanding of these companies' designations.

Offline hesham

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Offline hesham

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Re: Avions Marcel Dassault (MD) designations
« Reply #29 on: March 05, 2013, 01:50:24 pm »
Hi,


anther unknown aircraft project from George Messier site; the MD-912;


http://www.acam.asso.fr/histo/premiers_equipements7.php