Stratolaunch

ADVANCEDBOY said:

Does anyone know when is the first flight due? They promised to take it airborne by the end of the summer. The summer is over. The bird is still taxiing.
P.S. I hope it doesn`t break in half. For such long fuselages to be joined only by a single skinny wing , I am concerned. Especially when dealing with torsional forces. The rear wing and the rudder are very far away from the central wing and if rudders or ailerons are used to compensate air flows on one side , it will exert huge loads on the central wing where it is joined to each of the fuselages. Just a wild guess.

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Don't you think they took that into account in designing the wing spar?

They probably have some load alleviating FBW loop that keep the center section and payload stable. I mean that if torsional load you have, they are probably deported on the outboard wing sections and fuselage, what is helped by the dis-joined stabilizer design.

http://aviationweek.com/future-aerospace/pictures-stratolaunch-pga-rocket-engine-revealed

.

The engine-to-airplane ratio on that thing makes me wonder if it had enough thrust to taxi let alone takeoff. I assume this was an alternative to carrying a shuttle on the back of a 747 for landing tests although an artists concept should have a plausible amount of engine power.

Paul Allen has passed away at the age of 65, from cancer. R.I.P.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/15/microsoft-co-founder-paul-allen-dies-of-cancer-at-age-65.html
CNBC - Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen dies of cancer at age 65

Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen has died from complications of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, Vulcan Inc. said Monday on behalf of his family.

Allen passed away Monday afternoon in Seattle at 65 years old, Vulcan said. His sister, Jody, said he was “a remarkable individual on every level.”

“While most knew Paul Allen as a technologist and philanthropist, for us he was a much-loved brother and uncle, and an exceptional friend. Paul’s family and friends were blessed to experience his wit, warmth, his generosity and deep concern,” she said in a statement. “For all the demands on his schedule, there was always time for family and friends. At this time of loss and grief for us – and so many others – we are profoundly grateful for the care and concern he demonstrated every day.”

Allen, longtime CEO of Microsoft, also ranked among the world’s wealthiest individuals. As of Monday afternoon, he ranked 21st on Forbes’ list of billionaires with an estimated net worth of $20.3 billion.

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I wonder what that will mean for Stratolaunch. ???

sferrin said:

I wonder what that will mean for Stratolaunch. ???

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Vulcan, in its statement about Allen’s death, said that plans had been developed for continuing his various ventures after his passing, but did not disclose details.

“Paul thoughtfully addressed how the many institutions he founded and supported would continue after he was no longer able to lead them. This isn’t the time to deal in those specifics as we focus on Paul’s family,” said Bill Hilf, chief executive of Vulcan, in the statement. “There are no changes imminent for Vulcan, the teams, the research institutes or museums.”

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https://spacenews.com/stratolaunch-founder-paul-allen-dies/

Boxman said:

Paul Allen has passed away at the age of 65, from cancer. R.I.P.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/15/microsoft-co-founder-paul-allen-dies-of-cancer-at-age-65.html
CNBC - Microsoft co-founder Paul Allen dies of cancer at age 65

Microsoft Co-Founder Paul Allen has died from complications of non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma, Vulcan Inc. said Monday on behalf of his family.

Allen passed away Monday afternoon in Seattle at 65 years old, Vulcan said. His sister, Jody, said he was “a remarkable individual on every level.”

“While most knew Paul Allen as a technologist and philanthropist, for us he was a much-loved brother and uncle, and an exceptional friend. Paul’s family and friends were blessed to experience his wit, warmth, his generosity and deep concern,” she said in a statement. “For all the demands on his schedule, there was always time for family and friends. At this time of loss and grief for us – and so many others – we are profoundly grateful for the care and concern he demonstrated every day.”

Allen, longtime CEO of Microsoft, also ranked among the world’s wealthiest individuals. As of Monday afternoon, he ranked 21st on Forbes’ list of billionaires with an estimated net worth of $20.3 billion.

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Rest In Peace.

Dang. Cancer, once again. Screw you, stupid illness.

Know the feeling.

Stratolaunch airplane nears first flight

The latest taxi test of the giant aircraft being developed by Stratolaunch for its air-launch system is a sign the plane’s first flight may take place soon.

The company announced Jan. 9 that its airplane, the largest in the world by wingspan, performed its fastest taxi test to date at the Mojave Air and Space Port in California, reaching a top speed of 219 kilometers per hour. That test also featured a “rotation authority maneuver” that briefly lifted the plane’s nose gear off the ground.

This was the latest in a series of taxi tests, where the airplane goes down the runway under its own power but does not take off. That test program started in late 2017, with subsequent tests at increasing speeds.

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2019 is looking to be a hell of an exciting year for spaceflight.

sferrin said:

2019 is looking to be a hell of an exciting year for spaceflight.

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Which immediately makes me think, "OK, what fresh hell is going to pop up and ruin this?"

Casting a side-eye Putin/China way...

Orionblamblam said:

sferrin said:

2019 is looking to be a hell of an exciting year for spaceflight.

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Which immediately makes me think, "OK, what fresh hell is going to pop up and ruin this?"

Casting a side-eye Putin/China way...

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Well there's always the circus in Washington ever ready to rain on parades.

High-Speed Taxi

Stratolaunch
Published on Jan 10, 2019

Watch the Stratolaunch aircraft reach a top speed of 136 mph during the test.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xsee1sZv6SA

When the Stratolaunch makes its first flight, the United States once again will once more strengthen the honor of building and flying a plane with the biggest wingspan of any heavier-any-flying machine built. To save money, Scaled Composites had to use two 747 fuselages when building the first Stratolaunch. And the Stratolaunch will surely fly higher than the Hughes H-4 Spruce Goose on its first flight.

Stratolauncher will attempt first flight on Monday, weather permitting, which doesn’t promising to be sunny. You should go up to Mojave for this major milestone!

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https://twitter.com/NicolaPecile/status/1083927757510209536

Now that the Stratolaunch is close to a first flight, I have a simple question.
Does the aircraft have (metal) B747 fuselages joined together or were the twin fuselages purposely built by Scaled from composite materials?

Uh, have you seen any of the images in this thread? The Stratolaunch fuselages look nothing like the Boeing 747.

Here are the remains of one of the 747 donors:

Dear Hobbes
Thank you for your reaction and especially for the photo of the remains of the former UAL B747.
Reason for my question was that an aviation magazine (which I will not name) still mentions that the Stratolauch aircraft consists of two joined B747s.
I hope the photo you supplied will convince to magazine to change its view.
I think most members of our forum experienced cases where incorrect info is not corrected and as a result is repeated over and over again. Hence.......
Thank you again!

The Stratolaunch aircraft contains parts of the 747s, mainly their engines and landing gear. Maybe the cockpit glazing. The fuselages have been scratchbuilt by Stratolaunch.

Stratolaunch bought a couple of surplus 747s and raided them for parts - from whole engines downwards. They said that it saved them a small fortune over buying all the bits and pieces separately.

Any journalist who claims there is more of the 747s in there than that is just plain wrong.

This article has some nice comparison drawings that show how Stratolaunch compares the 747 and other aircraft like the A380, An-225 Mirya, and the Spruce Goose. It's a little hard to read because they've overlaid a bunch of different aircraft, but the individual Stratolaunch fuselages are clearly much smaller than the 747.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel-truths/stratolaunch-space-launch-largest-plane-ever-built-/?icid=registration_eng_nba158433_unpersonalised

There is some mention that the Stratolaunch flight deck is brought across more or less intact from a 747, which seems plausible considering the square-edged whole carved out of that donor 747 where the cockpit once was.

TomS said:

This article has some nice comparison drawings that show how Stratolaunch compares the 747 and other aircraft like the A380, An-225 Mirya, and the Spruce Goose. It's a little hard to read because they've overlaid a bunch of different aircraft, but the individual Stratolaunch fuselages are clearly much smaller than the 747.

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At least one of those overlays is screwed up, and shows the Stratolaunch fuselages being much shorter than a 747. In reality they're a bit longer. 238 ft vs 232 for a 747-400.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratolaunch_Systems#/media/File:Stratolaunch_comparison.svg

sferrin said:

TomS said:

This article has some nice comparison drawings that show how Stratolaunch compares the 747 and other aircraft like the A380, An-225 Mirya, and the Spruce Goose. It's a little hard to read because they've overlaid a bunch of different aircraft, but the individual Stratolaunch fuselages are clearly much smaller than the 747.

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At least one of those overlays is screwed up, and shows the Stratolaunch fuselages being much shorter than a 747. In reality they're a bit longer. 238 ft vs 232 for a 747-400.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stratolaunch_Systems#/media/File:Stratolaunch_comparison.svg

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Yeah, except they're comparing it to the 747-800 Intercontinental, which is 250 feet long, not 232.

Edit: https://www.boeing.com/commercial/747/

Okay, look at that graphic and tell me if you think they show the Stratolaunch plane only 5% shorter than the 747.

sferrin said:

Okay, look at that graphic and tell me if you think they show the Stratolaunch plane only 5% shorter than the 747.

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Ah, I see what's wrong. The measurement bars are correct, but the outline for the Stratolauncher is about 5% too small, so it looks closer to 10% shorter than the 747. Still, it only really shows in the side view. A 5% difference in the overhead view still shows the Stratolauncher fuselages being much slimmer.

After Allen's death, it was inevitable. I fear it's just a beginning of bad news for a project...
https://spacenews.com/stratolaunch-abandons-launch-vehicle-program/

flateric said:

After Allen's death, it was inevitable. I fear it's just a beginning of bad news for a project...
https://spacenews.com/stratolaunch-abandons-launch-vehicle-program/

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Oh s**t

Something tells me that's not what Allen had in mind for Stratolaunch in his contingency planning.

flateric said:

After Allen's death, it was inevitable. I fear it's just a beginning of bad news for a project...
https://spacenews.com/stratolaunch-abandons-launch-vehicle-program/

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That's what happens if Innovator died and the managers take over.
In interview some years ago Elon Musk issue similar concern for his business, if something happen to him.

For Stratolaunch, i guess that managers use the only build Carrier with Pegasus XL for year or two
then file for bankruptcy and sell carrier aircraft or scrap it for money...

Michel Van said:

flateric said:

After Allen's death, it was inevitable. I fear it's just a beginning of bad news for a project...
https://spacenews.com/stratolaunch-abandons-launch-vehicle-program/

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That's what happens if Innovator died and the managers take over.
In interview some years ago Elon Musk issue similar concern for his business, if something happen to him.

For Stratolaunch, i guess that managers use the only build Carrier with Pegasus XL for year or two
then file for bankruptcy and sell carrier aircraft or scrap it for money...

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There was never a commercial market for the thing, not even Allen could have created that. It always was a solution looking for a problem.

Pegasus XL is an expensive way to launch small payloads. "Support a demonstration launch of the Northrop Grumman Pegasus XL" just about sums up the Stratolaunch market right now.

Most likely, the best thing they can do with all those 747 subsystems after that will be to refurbish a couple more 747s with them. Shame really, but there it is.

Destined to spend the rest of history next to the Spruce Goose most likely.

Quick analyze of satellite market today

- cubesats
- web constellations
- GEO comsats

Stratolaunch was good for... none of the three.

- way too huge and expensive to launch cubesats, if compared to Rocketlab Electron
- web constellations ? maybe, but... Virgin build their air-launched rocket from a plain old 747.
- GEO comsats: air launch limited the rocket to 200 tons, too small for GEO with 7 mt Comsats
Stratolaunch's rocket could launch 7 mt satellites, but to LEO. Bad luck: 7 mt comsats goes to GEO. You need 21 mt to LEO for the job...

- As for the spaceplane shown, with or without Roc, with a SSME derivative it would need a propellant mass fraction of 0.92 or more, in short, a Venture Star like SSTO. Not sure Paul allen company could have build that.

So I'm not really surprised... that thing never got a "true" rocket and a market along it. The entire effort seemed half-hearted from the start.

But how silly it is, to use that enormous bird to launch tiny Pegasus rockets, that are also extremely expensive, and with few payloads !!!

I'm tempted to say - give Roc a huge cargo pod and use it to beat the crap out of the An-225 ! That's the only way to salvage something useful out of that fiasco...

Really. It could work.

The An-225 fuselage is, well, a fuselage derived from the An-124. Hence there are probably internal limits to payloads volume and dimensions.
By a contrast a cargo pod clung between Roc fuselages could be specially shaped to beat the An-225 cargo hold limitations. I mean, it could be build with a larger diameter, or longer, to swallow payloads the An-225 can't handle.
The Roc probably has more engine power, better aerodynamics and a lighter structure than the An-225.

that's the way I imagine it. A big, cylindrical pod with rounded ends and a a "clean" interior, no obstacle for oversized payloads.
Clamshell doors at both ends, and a wide ramp to load and unload very large payloads.

Ah, I knew I had seen this before.
Bring this one back, but using Roc as basis !

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairchild_XC-120_Packplane

https://www.google.com/search?q=XC-120+packplane&client=firefox-b-ab&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic1JOTjPrfAhVDzRoKHa_rA6MQ_AUIDigB&biw=1024&bih=745

Considering the Roc payload and the large space between the two fuselages, one could certainly hangs one hell of a pod there...

Archibald said:

I'm tempted to say - give Roc a huge cargo pod and use it to beat the crap out of the An-225 ! That's the only way to salvage something useful out of that fiasco...

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Unfortunately, its wingspan is too large to operate from most airports. They would have to be cropped short before a cargo flight could go anywhere. One reason the Airbus A380 has it tips turned up.
And even the AN-225 Mriya struggles to find a market.

Whether or not air launch has a viable business case now rests with Virgin Orbit.

The Pegasus launch system is a strange case where the initial cost estimate was a small fraction of what was eventually charged. The explanation for the cost rise was always a bit nebulous and centered on payload integration. Virgin Orbit is pegging its sales to keeping costs low so this will remove that issue.

Can't help thinking that the parallel to draw is that Pegasus started out as a cheap idea that got expensive in real life, while Virgin Orbit started out as a cheap idea that will soon get expensive in real life.

Just another case of underestimating the structural penalties of carrying a loaded rocket horizontally.

I don't mind admitting I have no expertise in pre-judging the efforts of the engineers and managers at Virgin Orbit. That said, the more competition the better.

Archibald said:

So I'm not really surprised... that thing never got a "true" rocket and a market along it. The entire effort seemed half-hearted from the start.

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This was never a commercial venture. It was always a billionaire's pet project. From 2012:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/2198/1