Cold-War Joint FR-FRG-IT Tank

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http://www.youtube.com/user/BlacktailDefense#p/search/7/LlIrGysjiN0

The linked youtube video references and shows pictures of what is termed the "Europanzer" which was a mid 1950s-1960s project for a joint French-German-Italian tank. Having a quick search I've seen such a tank mentioned as a pre-AMX30 and Leopard I tank project but little actual detail. Does anyone have more information?

Thanks
 
It was the project that became the Leopard 1 and AMX 30. The idea being each country would build the same tank. The French baulked when their design didn't win and built the AMX-30 but both the Germans and Italians built the Leopard.
 
Abraham Gubler said:
It was the project that became the Leopard 1 and AMX 30. The idea being each country would build the same tank. The French baulked when their design didn't win and built the AMX-30 but both the Germans and Italians built the Leopard.

That's about all I've been able to find already, but there are two photos of what appears to be a joint prototype vehicle. I was looking to see whether there were any more details on this.

I was quite surprised that it wasn't present on Chars-Francais, as that's a very thorough reference of French armoured vehicles.
 
I'm not quite sure, but I think that's just the 1963 AMX-30 prototype without the cargo racks and other stuff welded on yet. Those tend to disguise the unusual shape of the turret that you can see here.

There are a couple of pictures of the early prototype here that are suggestive. The gun is very similar, without the muzzle brakes and fume extractors that would mark the later versions.
 
Wikipedia:

The Leopard project started in November 1956 in order to develop a modern tank, the Standard-Panzer, to replace the Bundeswehr's American-built M47 and M48 Patton tanks, which, though just delivered to West Germany's recently reconstituted army, were rapidly growing outdated. On 25 July 1957 the detailed specifications were released; the new design needed to weigh no more than thirty metric tons, have a power-to-weight ratio of thirty horsepower per ton, be able to withstand hits by 20 mm rapid-fire guns on every side as well as operate in a battlefield contaminated with chemical weapons or radioactive fallout, the then-standard baseline for combat with the Warsaw Pact. In addition the main armament had to consist of a 105 mm caliber weapon (the new British L7A3 105 mm gun was selected), carrying at least as many rounds as current US tank designs. Mobility was the priority while firepower came second; armour was seen as less essential, as it was believed no real protection against hollow charge weapons was possible anyway.


Leopard 1 prototype
France was very interested in the design as its own AMX 50 project had just failed. In June 1957, West Germany and the French Fourth Republic signed an agreement to develop a common tank, designated in German Europa-Panzer. Three German (Arbeitsgruppe A, B and C) and one French design team would be included in a competition, with each team producing two prototypes each. In September, 1958 Italy joined the development program. Several prototypes were entered for testing in 1960. Among the prototypes were Porsche's Model 734 from team A, sporting a cast turret and that of team B (Rheinmetall) whose cast turret was somewhat higher. Team C from Borgward, designing a very futuristic tank, failed to have a prototype ready in time.
Even before these first prototypes were finished, it had (in 1959) been decided that a second phase with improved designs would be started: Team A had to build 26 phase II Prototypes for testing, team B six. Only two tanks of the required six would actually be constructed by team B.


Leopard 1 Prototype II
The Porsche Prototype II was eventually selected as the winner of the contest in 1963; this did not come as a surprise: it had already been decided in 1961 to build a preseries of fifty vehicles based on this design; production of these was started that very year. This "0-series" was modified with a new cast turret and several hull changes to raise the rear deck to provide more room in the engine compartment, and move some of the radiators to the upper sides of the hull. Before mass production of the standard version started it was also decided to add an optical range-finding system for better long-range gunnery, which required the turret to be somewhat taller, and added "bumps" on either side of the turret to mount the optics for triangulation. In 1963 France and Germany had decided to each build their own tank; Germany continued with the Leopard, while France built the similar AMX-30.
 
TomS said:
I'm not quite sure, but I think that's just the 1963 AMX-30 prototype without the cargo racks and other stuff welded on yet. Those tend to disguise the unusual shape of the turret that you can see here.

Thanks, I'm pretty sure that the photos are of the AMX-30 prototype. It's just a bit odd to the see the vehicle in the clean configuration rather than with lots of stuff hanging off of it.
 
Would love to find out more about this Europanzer design! Especially pictures and drawings!!

Regards
Pioneer
 
For what look like Europanzer prototype. However when I found these pictures, they are labeled AMX-30 prototype.
 

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xiaofan said:
For what look like Europanzer prototype. However when I found these pictures, they are labeled AMX-30 prototype.

Thanks Xiaofan!!
Unfortunately I think your assumption regarding your photos that you have so kindly posted being that of the AMX-30 design prototypes is correct :( I thought of the AMX-30 when I found my picture that I posted :mad: So if this is the case, then the search for the Europanzer must continue. It was a prototype, so these pics must exist!!!!!!!!

Regards
Pioneer
 
Pioneer said:
So if this is the case, then the search for the Europanzer must continue. It was a prototype, so these pics must exist!!!!!!!!

I am afraid there was no prototype of 'Europanzer' as such, or rather there were at least two prototypes, as both France and Germany had each their own prototype (or a couple of prototypes in case of Germany).

This is what "AFV Weapons Profile 63" "AMX-30 Battle Tank" by R.M. Ogorkiewicz says on the matter:

The two armies [i.e. French and German] proceeded in 1958 to design and then to construct prototypes from which a single European tank was to have been chosen, although in the event France and Germany each adopted its own design.

The sentence fully summarises the history of what might be called a Europanzer.

Piotr
 
The Standard-Panzer Team C (Borgward) design, also referred to as Standardpanzer C:
ab93b4b759c348211be881e55a387253.jpg


http://csef.ru/en/oborona-i-bezopasnost/505/nemeczkie-korni-proekta-armata-sluhi-i-realnost-6281

Absence of serious experience in creation of tanks has not prevented engineers of company Borgward to offer more than the courageous project with weight of original and unusual ideas which and now can surprise experts and fans of military technology. It is remarkable that some features project Standardpanzer C is much more similar on Russian Т-14, than project Panzerkampfwagen mentioned by edition Die Welt 2000.

Project Standardpanzer C (internal designation of firm RR EP-1) offered use of unusual configuration of the tank. In a forward part it was offered to place at once four six-cylinder engines the general capacity to 1500 h.p. Thus transmission units settled down near to engines, along boards and in a forage. As it has been decided to leave driving wheels in a fodder part of the case, along boards passed two driveshafts. The part of reducers of transmission was offered to be placed in a forward part of the case, the others - in a forage.

Originality the running gear differed also. In its structure have included five dual basic skating rinks with a hydropneumatic suspension bracket on each board. According to some information, tank Standardpanzer C had the combined running gear. The developed rubber bandages of basic skating rinks, and also a control system of forward and back skating rinks did this car kolesno-caterpillar. In that case as a part of transmission there should be units for twisting moment transfer on skating rinks.

In an average part of the case the place for an uninhabited tower from 90-mm was provided by a gun. All operations on zarjazhaniju, to prompting and other service of the weapon should be carried out by automatics on crew commands. In particular, the automatic machine zarjazhanija with vertical placing of a unit of fire in cells of the ring conveyor was offered. Original configuration of fighting branch allowed to place almost all necessary units below a case roof. Over it the small cylinder (a roof of fighting branch) and a rectangular casing with the tool towered only.

Behind fighting branch engineers of company Borgward have arranged a capsule for placing of three tankmen. On their workplaces the full set of the advanced equipment for supervision over conditions, search of the purposes and management of arms was provided. Especially it is necessary to note the advantages connected with a similar arrangement of manned volume. For crew defeat at hit in a front projection the shell of the opponent should punch the front reservation, engines and fighting branch. Thus, tank Standardpanzer C (RR EP-1) could brag of the highest level of protection of crew at attack from forward corners.

In 1959 the customer has defined, what projects will continue the existence and will be embodied in metal. Orders for construction of skilled tanks have received Porsche companies (Standardpanzer A) and Rheinmetall (Standardpanzer B). Company Borgward project have counted too difficult for building and mass operation in armies. As consequence, project RR EP-1 and remained on a paper. In 1961 company Borgward has gone bankrupt that has led to cessation of work in all spheres, first of all in motor industry. The further destiny of the design documentation on project Standardpanzer C is unknown.
 

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Does anyone else have 'issues' with the 'video.s' on black tail defence or is it just me? It seems to be there just for the creation of rants and unreasonable criticism.
 

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