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Author Topic: RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets  (Read 11567 times)

Offline zen

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« on: May 17, 2011, 01:25:03 pm »
We rather need a decent definition of what the RB.106 was, we have a few bits of information and even a rumoured name as the "Thames", which I find a little suspect for a fighter engine, but it does fit RR's naming conventions.

Supposedly a 'drop in' replacement for the Avon. RR seems to see it as a powerplant for single engined fighters, and one thats superior in the supersonic regime. Seems also to put out more power at low speeds compared to the Avon, but its efficiency falls back to similar levels in the transonic regime, perhaps a feature of diameter?

Reheat seems rather closer to the later reheated Spey, does this reflect their development of the reheat unit?

RR also seems to have toyed with the idea of a scaled down variant for twin engined fighters, we know of at least two aircraft designs that incorporated this.

A scaled up version is aimed at the F155T fighters, by increasing diameter.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2015, 09:41:28 pm by PaulMM (Overscan) »

Offline JFC Fuller

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 01:34:33 pm »
Zen,

You beat me to it. This is probably the most interesting of the never-were post-war British engines. The scaled up RB.106 for the F.155T was RB.122 and there is an RB.128 designation floating around as well. Apparently there is a sketch of the RB.128 somewhere in the national archives.

Offline zen

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 01:47:50 pm »
The 'normal' figure I have from BSP.1 is 15,000lb and the reheated figure seems a little more fluid though over 21,000lb.

Scaled up version must be able to match the Gyron at least (RB.122), the scaled down version has two figures (unknown RB No.), possibly reflecting either the understanding of what they could get out of it or different sizes (diameters) of engine. Those being 7,000lb (for the Bristol design) and 10,000lb (for the EE design) both the mach2 soaking effort (I forget the ER number). The latter is said to have a reheated thrust of 12,100lb, possibly so low because of a small chamber diameter or due to the efficiency of the turobjet in burning up the oxigen and leaving so little left for reheating.

But does this relate to nearby RR numbers? Such as the very small RB.123?

We do know it superseeds the scaled up Avon.
We also know its a two spool engine, and it uses a lot of titanium.
Rumour has it the Orenda Iriquois had a lot of its influence on it.

Offline JFC Fuller

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2011, 02:30:42 am »
Quote
R.B. 106. No official mention has yet been made of any engine with this designation, but references to such a unit have appeared several times in various publications. All such reports referred to it as a high-thrust turbojet and it is described as having a two-spool layout. An American report states that westinghouse are anxious to manufacture it under licence.

From: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1956/1956%20-%201246.html?search=RB.106

CF-105 and RB.106: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1956/1956%20-%201246.html?search=RB.106

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2011, 03:01:18 am »
National Archives

AVIA 65/12 Sponsorship of RB 106: financial policy 1953
AVIA 53/457 Westinghouse Corporation/Rolls Royce Ltd agreement for technical collaboration in axial engine field 1953-1958
AVIA 54/1333 Rolls Royce turbine engines: general data 1949-1955
AVIA 65/592 Rolls Royce Avon engines: development policy    1955-1961
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Offline JFC Fuller

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2011, 03:33:53 am »
Derbyshire record office: D5290/2/5  1960s

Contents:
Miscellaneous file containing drawings of RZ.2, RZ.3, RZ.12 and RZ.14 rocket engines, plus drawings of RB.128 jet engine and other aeronautical projects, 1960s

Also, Professor G L Wilde worked on the RB.128 supersonic engine: http://archive.pepublishing.com/content/0k715gp17xm85717/

Flight Global estimated that expenditure on the RB.106 totaled 100,000- a paltry sum given that 4.75 million had been spent on the Orion turboprop at cancellation.

Source: http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1967/1967%20-%201672.html
« Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 05:23:29 am by sealordlawrence »

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2014, 12:59:38 am »
Anyone have specs for RB.106? I have RB.122 and RB.128 specs but not RB.106.
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Offline Hot Breath

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2014, 08:57:23 pm »
Rolls Royce designed a successor to the Avon turbojet, the RB106.  It was intended to be approximately the same size but have a higher thrust.  The only thrust I've found mentioned for it was 21,750 lbs.  Was this wet or dry?

Bristol designed an engined named the "Zeus" which was intended to be a competitor to the RB106 but I have been unable to find any specifications for it.  Does anybody know what it's size/performance was intended to be?  Did it ever make it off the drawing board (or even that far)?

Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2014, 02:18:19 am »
Added to existing topic.
« Last Edit: December 17, 2014, 02:21:11 am by PaulMM (Overscan) »
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Offline Hot Breath

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2014, 07:03:24 pm »
Quote
Bristol Zeus Reported
THE following is a rough translation, from the Italian, of a recent paragraph in Alata:

"People in industrial circles are speaking of a new Bristol turbojet with the name Zeus. This engine is to have an expected rating of 9,000kg(19,200lb) thrust."
[http://www.flightglobal.com/FlightPDFArchive/1955/1955%20-%201647.PDF]

Quote
BE.30Bristol Siddeley Zeus two-spool turbojet.Intended for Avro 726 interceptorRated at 8000 / 10000lb (35.6 / 44.5KN).
[http://www.skomer.u-net.com/projects/turbines.htm]


Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2014, 11:10:16 pm »
Rolls Royce designed a successor to the Avon turbojet, the RB106.  It was intended to be approximately the same size but have a higher thrust.  The only thrust I've found mentioned for it was 21,750 lbs.  Was this wet or dry?

Bristol designed an engined named the "Zeus" which was intended to be a competitor to the RB106 but I have been unable to find any specifications for it.  Does anybody know what it's size/performance was intended to be?  Did it ever make it off the drawing board (or even that far)?


RB.106 thrust level was 15,000lb dry and with afterburner, 20,750lb
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Offline PaulMM (Overscan)

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RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2015, 09:14:29 pm »
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/rd/9f558749-716b-465a-864d-f846111b69a1

Pencil technical drawing of the RB.128 jet engine

Derbyshire Record Office
New Street
Matlock
England
DE4 3FE
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Offline JFC Fuller

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Re: RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 03:28:17 pm »
Bristol BE.30 was proposed in late 1953 and utilised contra-rotting spools, proposed for a developed version of the AW.169. Bristol competitor to the RB.106?

I have to say, with Bristol, Rolls Royce, Armstrong Siddeley and DeHavilland all working on supersonic jet engines in this period (and at least three of them getting government funding, DeHavilland, RR and ASM) the sense of waste through duplication is remarkable.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 03:34:11 pm by JFC Fuller »

Offline Harrier

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Re: RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2018, 04:02:15 pm »
Or the incentive of competition driving them on? Rationalisation seemed to slow things down. Aubrey Jones was against the over concentration of the industry and state direction/control. Odd how right wing Sandys and Amery pursued it.
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Offline Harrier

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Re: RB.106, RB.122 and RB.128 and Zeus turbojets
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2018, 08:24:33 am »
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/1427535/Aubrey-Jones.html

Jones supported a different form of rationalisation, with firms having a more diverse base as with Hawker Siddeley taking over Brush. He recognised it was not competetive against the US. Fewer projects were needed but still from private firms who competed.

Sandys and Amery still believed the UK could take on the US, with European collaboration if needed. Concorde, VC10, Trident resulted.

Jones' section outlining his views is the most modern sounding part of the Plowden report.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2018, 08:55:52 am by Harrier »
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