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Author Topic: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program  (Read 7038 times)

Offline riggerrob

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2018, 07:17:58 pm »
Those MGs on wing tips have great arcs of fire, but I suspect that rolling manuvers would make gunners airsick with all the changes in Gravity.

Offline sienar

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2018, 09:36:36 pm »
Those MGs on wing tips have great arcs of fire, but I suspect that rolling manuvers would make gunners airsick with all the changes in Gravity.

Not more so than normal. There were similar concerns with the P-82 and it was found that the pilot/co-pilot didn't experience any undue effects because of the off center seating arrangement.

Offline cluttonfred

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2018, 05:39:17 am »
The Luft46.com page on this design says this about the configuration, "In order to test this unconventional arrangement, the asymmetrical BV 141 had a second cockpit installed on the wingtip with the controls coupled to those in the main cockpit. This led to the discovery that this arrangement warranted no further development.:  Does anyone have any pics if and/or other information on that modified BV.141?

Source:  http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvp163.html
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Offline Jemiba

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2018, 10:10:28 am »
In the FRX Magazine N 68 there's an article written by U.W.Jack (member here, too) just about this theme, including a
reconstruction of that testbed.
« Last Edit: January 11, 2018, 11:08:32 am by Jemiba »
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Offline rinkol

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2018, 10:41:56 am »
 "In order to test this unconventional arrangement, the asymmetrical BV 141 had a second cockpit installed on the wingtip with the controls coupled to those in the main cockpit. This led to the discovery that this arrangement warranted no further development."

It would seem that the frontal area would be at least as much as for a conventional twin engine design, at least if the DB 613 was used as the engine. Powerplant non-availability would have been a fundamental issue in any case.

Offline sienar

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2018, 11:52:16 am »
The Luft46.com page on this design says this about the configuration, "In order to test this unconventional arrangement, the asymmetrical BV 141 had a second cockpit installed on the wingtip with the controls coupled to those in the main cockpit. This led to the discovery that this arrangement warranted no further development.:  Does anyone have any pics if and/or other information on that modified BV.141?

Source:  http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvp163.html

There are a few more pics I've seen in various books, but can't remember which ones off the top of my head.

Offline alfakilo

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2018, 01:26:24 pm »
Those MGs on wing tips have great arcs of fire, but I suspect that rolling manuvers would make gunners airsick with all the changes in Gravity.

Quite possibly, but, if nothing else, it would have complicated their aiming problem.

The Luft46.com page on this design says this about the configuration, "In order to test this unconventional arrangement, the asymmetrical BV 141 had a second cockpit installed on the wingtip with the controls coupled to those in the main cockpit. This led to the discovery that this arrangement warranted no further development.

This makes me wonder what the test objectives were...to test an "unconventional arrangement", the designers imagined an even more unconventional arrangement.

Offline cluttonfred

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2018, 07:55:41 am »
Thanks for posting the test bed image.  It's odd to me that B&V even proposed the wingtip fuselage pod when the BV.141 layout with the pod just outside the propeller arc had already proven quite workable.  Two slim, fighter-like pods in positions similar to the BV.141 with two crew in each one would have minimized the effect of the seating off the centerline but still given the gunners clear arcs of fire.  The position of the horizontal tail and the types of turrets could have been adjusted to leave no blind spots.
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Offline alfakilo

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2018, 09:56:14 am »
Here is a link to a good explanation of the aerodynamic advantages of the asymmetric design:

http://www.nurflugel.com/Nurflugel/n_o_d/weird_01.htm

Offline iverson

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #24 on: January 20, 2018, 02:10:16 pm »
The Luft46.com page on this design says this about the configuration, "In order to test this unconventional arrangement, the asymmetrical BV 141 had a second cockpit installed on the wingtip with the controls coupled to those in the main cockpit. This led to the discovery that this arrangement warranted no further development.:  Does anyone have any pics if and/or other information on that modified BV.141?

Source:  http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvp163.html

There are a few more pics I've seen in various books, but can't remember which ones off the top of my head.

I've always assumed that this image was a fake made up using a smaller copy of the BV141 fuselage. It's hard for me to see how the structure of the normal wingtip--as the image appears to show--could be adjusted to work with an extra nacelle. Any ideas on the provenance of the picture?

Offline hole in the ground

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #25 on: January 20, 2018, 02:40:22 pm »
You might find that this variant just had extremely restricted speed and manoeuvre limits to keep g-loading down.

Offline sienar

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Re: "Arbeitsflugzeug" Program
« Reply #26 on: January 20, 2018, 03:14:29 pm »
The Luft46.com page on this design says this about the configuration, "In order to test this unconventional arrangement, the asymmetrical BV 141 had a second cockpit installed on the wingtip with the controls coupled to those in the main cockpit. This led to the discovery that this arrangement warranted no further development.:  Does anyone have any pics if and/or other information on that modified BV.141?

Source:  http://www.luft46.com/bv/bvp163.html

There are a few more pics I've seen in various books, but can't remember which ones off the top of my head.

I've always assumed that this image was a fake made up using a smaller copy of the BV141 fuselage. It's hard for me to see how the structure of the normal wingtip--as the image appears to show--could be adjusted to work with an extra nacelle. Any ideas on the provenance of the picture?

Found the source pic, so it is definitely fake.