Massive earthquake in Japan...

mz said:
JAIF status estimate March 16 12:30. Don't know why they didn't cool the spent fuel rods normally, they don't have huge power anymore, it's standard operating procedure that's done at every nuke around the world. I imagine there must have been lots of time to anticipate that too! It's always a lot harder after a hydrogen explosion. There must have been some massive communications breakdowns.

It could have been a cultural thing, as that might have involved bringing in people from outside - increasing the chance of a public shaming of the company.

How does that sound to you Blackkite?
 
Stargazer2006 said:
I 've been told that the use of sea water for reactor cooling instead of clear water signifies that they will be useless afterwards. Is that true? And if so, why?

I'd guess with the elevated temperatures the salt in the sea water would have caused significant corrosion inside the reactor, rendering lots of mechanisms unsafe for regular use.
 
blackkite said:
Japanese government decided to use U.S Military fire pumps to extinguish #4 reactor building fire from this evening.
Using helicopter is not proper because radioactivity level is high.
Some part of primary containment vessel of #2 reactor seemed to be broke because it's inner pressure is same as atmosphere.(by internet news 20:32 16/3/2011)

Latest I've heard is that the National Police Agency has provided their Water Cannon Units to help tackle the #4 fire too.
 
Stargazer2006 said:
I 've been told that the use of sea water for reactor cooling instead of clear water signifies that they will be useless afterwards. Is that true? And if so, why?
Also all kinds of stuff there (salt, impurities) gets radioactive and some of that sticks to places, unlike hydrogen and oxygen and nitrogen or water that are gases or evaporating liquids.
 
I modified my previous post.Please watch.I'm not sure about the effect of molten salt. But there is a idea of molten salt coolant breeder reactor.
I think decay heat level now is 0.3 to 0.5% compered with operating condition. Very low. All fuels(radioactivity source) are keep in the reactors and keep cooling. Reactor pressure is very low.I will check the situation of reactor #5 and #6 tomorrow.

Radioactivity level(Japan time 12:00 16/3/2011)
Fukushima city(60km from No.1 Fukushima nuclear power station site):18 to 20μSv/h(400 times of normal level),Tokyo:0.361μSv/h
(Normal level:1000μSv/year.)
Normally there are no man in the control room because of high radioactivity level. Sometimes operators come to the control room to check reactor sea water level and reactor pressure,etc.
 
Thank you very much blackkite for your updates. And good luck for the brave firemen and operators!
 
Indeed thank you for the information Blackkite. Anything involving the word "nuclear" here causes panic in some and has political connections so the reporting has often been of varying quality.

I am glad the US Navy is in the area to provide support, even with our debt situation. Also I have great respect for those workers at the Fukushima plant who are putting their health on the line to ensure this crisis is resolved.
 
There are also fail-safe or otherwise-impossible-to-meltdown reactor designs like pebble-bed, CANDU. and LFTR that have safety advantages. In fact, the liquid fluoride thorium reactor only *starts* to work at a molten state!
 
True, but most environmentalists don't get past the " nuclear = evil" argument. I used to be one of them, but then I realized that you need nuclear power for a pragmatic environmentally friendly society change... If that ever happens. Oh well, one can be a utopist when he is young. Not so much when one becomes older.

Any news from those missing from those destroyed towns?
 
dannydale said:
There are also fail-safe or otherwise-impossible-to-meltdown reactor designs like pebble-bed, CANDU. and LFTR that have safety advantages. In fact, the liquid fluoride thorium reactor only *starts* to work at a molten state!

I think there are failure possibilities in all technical systems. It's just that they can be reduced more.

The LFTR idea to drain the *molten fuel* to a safe place is an interesting paradigm shift. You could have quite little cooling requirements if the configuration is dispersed so the neutrons don't hit fissile material, and the surface area is large. One could even have air cooling which means even large leaks wouldn't matter as long as you keep up some flow.
 
Hi! No.1 Fukushima nuclear power station #5 reactor water temperature reach 63 degree centigrade, #6 reactor water temperature reach 60 degree centigrade. TEPCO preparing to receive external electricity to recover cooling function. Also temporary cooling system is preparing now.
High pressure water truck already reached near No.1 Fukushima site preparing discharge water to #3 and #4 reactor spent fuel storage pool. (this morning 3/17 2011)
Today Japanese Self Defense Force's two CH-47(which has lead plate floor) dropped 7.5ton water 4 times to #3 reactor's spent fuel storage pool.NISA and TEPCO evaluating the effect of water bombing. High pressure water truck is not effective because reach is too short for #4 reactor spent fuel storage pool then discharged water to the #3 reactor spent fuel storage pool. CH-47 crews irradiation level was under 100mSv/h while radioactivity of mission area was 87.7mSv/h. The crew observed water in the spent fuel storage pool of #4 reactor.(TV news 19:20 17/3/2011)
Japanese self defense force's water truck #1(from 19:30) and #2(from 19:45) begin discharge water to the #3 reactor spent fuel storage pool.
Total 5 water truck discharged to #3 reactor about 1 hour. NISA and TEPCO evaluating the effect.(TV news 19:55 17/3/2011)
 

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TEPCO preparing to receive external electricity to recover cooling function.

This might be a huge relief - or are all the "build in" pumps damaged beyond any usefulness ?
 
Archibald said:
TEPCO preparing to receive external electricity to recover cooling function.

This might be a huge relief - or are all the "build in" pumps damaged beyond any usefulness ?

We'll just have to see. Still, restoring a high-voltage supply will be useful even if the pumps are useless.
 
Hi! Fukushima nuclear power station Boilimg water reactor(BWR) system.
You can see spent fuel storage pool in second picture.(right side of the reactor top.)
TEPCO said that electricity will recover near future they hope.(0:34 18/3/2011)
They will work all night to rcover electricity under cold, snowy, dark and high radioactive environment.
JSDF will do very dangerous water discharge from helicopter and water truck tomorrow.
TEPCO is still cooling three reactor vessels. (#1,#2 and #3)
 

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Electricity cable and temporary power transformer already reached No.1 Fukushima site.
TEPCO will tried to connect cable to the #2 reactor building this evening.
It will be hard job. #2 reactor building wall already opened.
JSDF's four CH-47 are waiting for order this morning. Also water trucks.(NHK TV news Japan Time 7:11 18/3/2011)

Sorry I made a mistake.Decay heat level now is 3 to 5% compered with operating condition.(not 0.3% to 0.5%)
Tonight Tokyo university professor said It's under 0.5%. Hummm I hope so.(NHK TV news)

Radioactivity level of No.1 Fukushima site are decreasing now. TEPCO is also trying to recover #5 and #6 reactor cooling function.
(RHR system(Residual heat removal system): Which cool Primary containment vessel suppression pool water by sea water heat exchanger.)
Water discharge(50 ton) to the #3 reactor spent fuel storage pool was performed same as yesterday.(Internet site 20:10 18/3/2011)
We are facing 6 reactors problem!!!!!(TMI is one reactor's accident)
TSUNAMI was too hard compared with our expectation. Please take note that it was the historic massive TSUNAMI.
There are no perfect safety in our world.
 
I bow my head in respect for the "Fukushima 50". Such devotion is seldom seen.
http://abcnews.go.com/International/fukushima-50-line-defense-japanese-nuclear-complex/story?id=13147746
 
close view on the reactors
[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leowqJBgh3Q[/flash]

NHK TV Japan: Inside Fukushima reactor
[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBzLIJsUMww[/flash]
 
NISA said that radioactivity level decrease from 3.611mSv/h(AM 8:00 3/18) to 3.181mSv/h(north side of No.1 Fukushima office building) by water discharge(60 ton) to #3 reactor performed from AM 0:30 to AM 1:00 3/19/2011.
TEPCO said that they will finish to connect electricity cable to #1 and #4 reactor till the end of 3/19.(From internet 9:37 19/3)

TEPCO announced that fuel heat generation of spent fuel storage pool are as follows.
#1 reactor building: 60,000Kcal/h
#2 reactor building: 400,000Kcal/h
#3 reactor building: 200,000Kcal/h
#4 reactor building: 2,000,000Kcal/h
#4 reactor building is very large. If #4 pool will dry,fuel will begin to melt,radioactivity discharge to environment will begin from the fuel.

Water discharge from water truck to #3 and #4 reactor building will begin this afternoon,after finish to connect cable to the reactor building.White steam appeared from #2,#3 and #4 reactor building.(12:30)(NHK news 10:00 19/3/2011)
 
Tokyo Fire Department plan 7 hour continuous sea water discharge to #3 reactor building from 13:30 19/3/2011.
Also Japanese Self Defence Force(JSDF) plan sea water discharge to #4 reactor building.
One of emergency diesel generator of #6 reactor recovered and recovered the function to charge water to the spent fuel storage pool in #5 and #6 reactor building. TEPCO is trying to connect electric cables to all reactor buildings now. (NHK news 13:00 19/3/2011)
 
Minister of defence Kitazawa said that #1,#2,#3 and #4 reactor's temperature is under 100 degree centigrade according to CH-47's sensor.
(Sankei Newspaper 16:00 3/19/2011)
Electric cables are already connected to #1 and #2 reactor building TEPCO said.(NHK news 21:05 19/3/2011)
 
blackkite said:
NISA said that radioactivity level decrease from 3.611mSv/h(AM 8:00 3/18) to 3.181mSv/h(north side of No.1 Fukushima office building) by water discharge(60 ton) to #3 reactor performed from AM 0:30 to AM 1:00 3/19/2011.
TEPCO said that they will finish to connect electricity cable to #1 and #4 reactor till the end of 3/19.(From internet 9:37 19/3)

TEPCO announced that fuel heat generation of spent fuel storage pool are as follows.
#1 reactor building: 60,000Kcal/h
#2 reactor building: 400,000Kcal/h
#3 reactor building: 200,000Kcal/h
#4 reactor building: 2,000,000Kcal/h
#4 reactor building is very large. If #4 pool will dry,fuel will begin to melt,radioactivity discharge to environment will begin from the fuel.

Water discharge from water truck to #3 and #4 reactor building will begin this afternoon,after finish to connect cable to the reactor building.White steam appeared from #2,#3 and #4 reactor building.(12:30)(NHK news 10:00 19/3/2011)

EDIT: whoops had a 60x error in my post, corrected my post accordingly, thanks for mentioning bipa...

60 000 kcal / h is 70 kilowatts. As water takes 2 MJ/kg to boil, that's equivalent to boiling 2 kg of water per minute at reactor #1. One could fill that number by pouring a ten liter hand bucket every five minutes.

Reactor #2: 14 kg per minute , #3: 7 kg per minute, #4: 70 kg per minute. That's a tiny power even at the largest, #4 reactor, roughly 2 MW. Cooling should not be super hard anymore.
 
Spent fuel storage pool capacity of #4 reactor building is 1425m3.
#4 reactor building wall and ceiling already destroyed by hydrogen explosion.
#4 reactor is under maintenance,reactor is empty. Fuels are in the pool.
I will make a table which describe all reactor's situation.Please wait for a moment.
Sea water discharge to #3 and #4 reactor building will perform today,too
 
There's this from JAIF of course...
 

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Hi! Situation of No.1 Fukushima nuclear power station AM9:00 20/3/2011.
The reactor building of #5 reactor and #6 reactor already have Small hole to prevent hydrogen explosion.
(Source:TEPCO,Internet, TV news,Newspaper,etc)

TEPSO said that #2 reactor power center recieved electricity at 15:46 20/3/2011.
Tokyo fire department will begin water discharge to #3 reactor building from this evening. (16:20 NHK news)
 

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TinWing said:
Here is an aggregator website where the links are frequently updated:

http://www.drudgereport.com/

As you can see, the situation depends on a number of factors, such as wind direction.

Drudge has had its successes, but has a political bias that may have to be accounted for (as much as, say, Huffington might represent an ideological counterweight). Leanings on the right-left-whatever axis are not in any way objectionable of course, but to me these aggregators do have problems independent of their respective perspectives. The headlines tend to be "yellow pressy" to say the least, as their primary function is to drive traffic - for varied reasons - and only (a distant) second to generate content. An opportune business model, but not a raging success in resourcing and enabling primary source reporting. If one can make sense of this media environment, good, but such expressionistic reporting may not be ideal for everyone (me?) who are trying to make personal sense of the events that will have at least somewhat unintended causal effects on our environment for months, if not years, to come.

In matters of such dire gravity as Fukushima 1, please also consider specialized websites who have staff trained in nuclear physics and engineering (or clear first-person lines of communications with such individuals). Official bodies such as the US NRC and the IAEA have their merits and are worth visiting, although they must exhibit almost inhuman prudence to maintain the maximum of credibility, impartiality and responsibility towards everyone. At times of crises this may sometimes appear frustratingly disconnected. One website which, for me at least, has stood out on technical merit is UCS's "All Things Nuclear" - link here. Their recent blog postings on spent fuel pool pneumatic transfer gate seals as a possible reason for decreasing water levels (the humble rubber tubes need to be constantly powered too, to maintain integrity), the deeper reasons behind the unsuccessful hydrogen venting efforts (witness the outer structure decimating explosions which cannot be explained away by the designed routing for such emergency actions), exact fuel amounts and their locations (it matters), and the extent to which the "Pacific plume" is radioactive over extended distances (not so much) have stood well above anything else I've managed to find on the subject. They also seem to list other resources too; I can't recommend those (yet) as I haven't visited them at this point, apart from the excellent JAIF charts which are already well known here.

If you like aggregate-like sites nonetheless, but are in a mood for a more comprehensive approach and prior-to-the-event scientific perspective then from my own experience I can recommend the New Scientist website. That includes proper investigative reporting on the earthquake and the tsunami too, as there continues to be much more to this than the pesky nuclear issues. This quake and its aftershocks have been recorded meticulously by Japanese sensor grids and the resulting data has a very good chance of improving understanding of these more rare large scale events; one just needs some patience as not all the answers will conform to the 24h social information cycle where the propagation of shocks is much different.

A special "Thank You" for blackkite, too, I'm reading the updates from Japanese language sources with great interest. I appreciate your efforts.
 
The japanese are slowly regaining the upper hand against that crippled nuclear powerplant. Congrats to them - the bravest of all !
 
H!! TEPCO said that #5 reactor was reached cold standby condition at 14:30 20/3/2011.Collant temperature is under 100 degree centigrade.
Also #6 will become cold standby condition near future. #5 reactor and #6 reactor are almost safe.
We must face only 4!!!! reactors now.
The height of this TSUNAMI fence in some village is 10m, people call this the giant wall in Japan, but no use. TSUNAMI height was twice of this giant wall.

Minister of defense Kitazawa said No.1 Fukushima's temperature measured by CH-47 sensor(PM 1:00 20/3/2011) are as follows.
#1 reactor : 58 degree centigrade, #2 reactor : 35 degree centigrade, #3 reactor 62 degree centigrade,
#4 reactor : 42 degree centigrade, #5 reactor : 24 degree centigrade, #6 reactor 25 degree centigrade
According to these data,Kitazawa said spent fuel storage pool of all reactor has water. (NHK TV news)
 

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Hi! The situating of No.1 Fukushima Nuclear Power Station at AM 11:00 21/3/2011.

使用済燃料貯蔵プール上:above the spent fuel storage pool
格納容器上:above the Primary containment vessel
3号炉:#3 reactor

Radioactivity level in Tokyo shows 4 peaks. There are 4 explosions in No.1 Fukushima nuclear power station.
They occurred in #1 reactor building,#3 reactor building,#2 reactor primary containment vessel and #4 reactor building.
I surprised that #4 reactor building seems to be low temperature. ???
TEPCO said that TSUNAMI height was 14m, while design height was 5m.

Source:Internet
 

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Hi! The situation of No.1 Fukushima Nuclear Power Station.(PM 22/3/2011)
Japanese Government use special pump to cool #4 reactor fuel storage pool.
Also use dozer tanks.
 

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The #1 reactor's temperature reached 400 degree centigrade, TEPCO increased sea water supply from 2m3/h to 18m3/h(AM 23/3/2011). #1 reactor temperature decreased 350 degree centigrade.
But inner pressure of #1 reactor primary containment vessel is increasing now. TEPCO plant to open #1 reactor primary containment vessel's safety valve.
(NHK news 7:00 24/3/2011)
 
TEPCO decreased water supply level, #1 reactor Primary containment inner pressure decreased.
#1 reactor vessel temperature decreased 243 degree centigrade.
(NHK news PM12:00 24/3/2011)
 
TEPCO said that they begun fresh water injection to the #1 reactor instead of sea water from PM 3:40 25/3/2011.
Also they plan to begin fresh water injection to the #2 and #3 reactor.(Source Internet 20:00 25/3/2011)
Yes we are already wondering sea water injection to the reactors.
The last picture show the radioactivity level of No.1 Fukushima site. Unit:μSv/h
正門:the main gate
事務本館北:the north side of the office building, 号機:#, 水素爆発:hydrogen explosion, 火災;fire, 白煙:white smoke, 放水:water discharge,
月:month, 日:day
We must keep cooling reactor fuel about 3 years!!
The decay heat will become 0.1% compared with operating condition after 1 month from reactor shut down.
 

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Hi! The situation of No.1 Fukushima Nuclear Power Station.
Very high radioactivity water discovered in #1,#2 and #3 reactor turbine building where cooling system pumps located.(about 500mSv/h,”2's level is more high) TPECO is transferring #1 reactor turbine building water to the steam condenser. TEPCO and NISA judged that high radioactivity came from the reactor. They are searching the route of high radioactivity from the reactor to the turbine building.
(PM 0:50 27/3/2011)
 

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