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Author Topic: US NAVY ATA (Advanced Tactical Aircraft) program: A-12 Avenger II & its rivals  (Read 158404 times)

Offline flateric

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When one was talking about FW USAF Plant No.4 with a phrases like 'far north end' I had an impression we're talking about something a size of Darth Wader's Death Star or imperial battlecruiser - before I googled it...

I wonder why they just didn't pass/lease/sell mockup to USAF Museum.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2007, 12:26:22 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline elmayerle

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Well, it's not quite that big, though the main assembly area is a mile long.  The "dump" as at the extreme north end of the facility, up against the edge of Lake Worth.  I suppose that if someone made them a decent offer, they'd likely be willing to give it over, but the offer has to be made.  I suspect asking either the USAF Museum or the Museum of Naval Aviation would be worth trying.  I suspect they'd be willing to give it over if the recipient would just handle the shipping.

Offline BAROBA

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Thanks Matej :)
The only part I needed is not on the image...
The exact shape of the inlet is a mystery, I can get it almost right, but never good.
Thanks for posting anyways :)

The A-12 mock-up just stands there and rots away? :s
Or is it protected against the weather?


Offline Sundog

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You might want to check out the book, The $5 Billion Misunderstanding. because it has a pic of a "clear" model of the A-12 and you can sort of see the path and width of the intakes in top view. You know where the engine face is as well, and from the pics available you can see where the intakes are and put together a good enough model of it. BTW, pay close attention to the intake pic at the A-12 site where you see the plexiglass over it, as right behind that you can see the intake vanes/baffles that help hide the intake face.

The only thing I was wondering about the inlet is whether or not the lower lip "droops" for high alpha flight or to increase capture area at low speeds. Or if that piece is just a separate piece that wasn't blended well on the mockup.

I had started modeling the A-12 for FS9, but then went over to modeling the GD Model 100 single seat flying wing that supposedly flew. Although, I actually have seen drawings of another design called the GD Model 100. That other being a highly swept delta wing with all three apex's rounded, side by side seating, twin side by side engines, with a dorsal inlet behind the cockpit and twin canted tails (like on the F-35) with nozzles like on the YF-23. It looks to be an F-111 class aircraft in terms of size, but that's just based on what I've been able to put together based on different articles. I was working on a model of it for FS9 as well, but really haven't had the time to work on them.

Offline Matej

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I had started modeling the A-12 for FS9, but then went over to modeling the GD Model 100 single seat flying wing that supposedly flew. Although, I actually have seen drawings of another design called the GD Model 100. That other being a highly swept delta wing with all three apex's rounded, side by side seating, twin side by side engines, with a dorsal inlet behind the cockpit and twin canted tails (like on the F-35) with nozzles like on the YF-23. It looks to be an F-111 class aircraft in terms of size, but that's just based on what I've been able to put together based on different articles. I was working on a model of it for FS9 as well, but really haven't had the time to work on them.


Bizarre aviation expert.

Offline RobertWL

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The A-12 mockup WAS at one time kept in a hanger Lockheed was letting a museum group use until they built a permanent facility. The mockup, along with a B-36 and a few other aircraft they had stored were suppose to go into their museum, which never happened. Lockheed took the hanger back a few years ago for the JSF program, and the Air Force took the B-36 and I'm not exactly sure what happened to the other aircraft.

I wish I'd gotten more pictures of the scale model they also built, It was pretty detailed as well. The museum usually brought that out at the local airshows. Too bad I don't live there locally, otherwise I might be able to find out something. :(

Offline flateric

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As of 08/06/2007 - "This aricraft <B-36> has been moved to the Pima Aerospace Museum, Tucson Arizona, but is not yet on display.
More info on Southwest Aerospace Museum rise and death http://aeroweb.brooklyn.cuny.edu/museums/tx/sam.htm

Here goes some shots og full-scale mockup and official GD desktop model that can give an idea of A-12 intake shapes (missing radar blockers seen at fully restored mockup at habu2 site). Note that their crosssections are definitely changing along the trakt with outer walls being vertical in a front view - l__\ _ /__l. Nose lower part reminds boat nose, so inner walls are V-shaped. Along the intake trakt, both walls become incrinated, forming /-\-shape.

Also goes my teenage attempt to draw A-12 in AutoCAD using KokuFan cutaways and all the sources available as references.
And, don't forget to share your attempts to draw it;)

Desktop model pics courtesy by Ian Maddock.


« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 01:36:00 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

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this is ghost view of intakes from Stevenson
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline Sundog

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I'll have to make ACAD drawings I was doing into Jpegs to show how I was doing.

Matej, the plane you show above was the precursor to the flying wing version of the model 100 I have seen. Wasn't "pigeon" part of the code name of the plane you're showing? (It's in my books in the basement, I'm not running down to look it up now ;)

The version with the rounded Apexes I'm talking about is a Delta Wing, not a flying wing and much larger.

Although I believe you did have at your website the top view of the wing variant I was going to model. The only pic available is a top view of it in Viet Nam era camouflage (Sneaky Pete) and the faceted canopy. There's also an artists rendering of that variant shown with a wing way too thin to be of any use. The artist should have at least looked up the diameter of the engines likely to be used in it and made the wing thick enough to house them. The artist also made the mistake of showing the exhaust on top and bottom of the wing. Since the model shows it on top, it wouldn't be on the bottom.

In fact, along those lines, the main difference between the USN A-12 and the USAF A-12 was that the USAF variant would have had the exhaust on the top surface of the wing, not the bottom.
« Last Edit: September 06, 2007, 04:54:11 pm by Sundog »

Offline Sundog

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OK,
Here are my drawings which are my copyright. The first is my rendition of Sneaky Pete. In some articles I have seen this design referenced as the GD Model 100.

The second pic is a larger F-111 sized aircraft that I have also heard referenced as the GD Model 100. It's only the top view because I haven't finished the other views yet.

The last is just a pic of the A-12 I was working on. I stopped, because I think you really do need good cross section drawings to get the "flat area" on the lower leading edge of the wing where the intakes are correct.

All of these are AutoCAD pics.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2007, 10:44:02 am by flateric »

Offline flateric

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Cold Pigeon it was
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline quellish

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I'm very sceptic about possibility to get them because many things were and stay classified of Flying Dorito. News that museum stuff ever had them is a breakthrough for me - you should have been using this rare chance if you still have his contacts.

Much of the A-12 program found its way into other things. The radar used on the Global Hawk, for example, has it's roots in the A-12's SAR. A lot of the interesting and expensive things created during the A-12 program later flew on other aircraft in Nevada and elsewhere.

Offline flateric

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These are official A-12 renderings, that obviously were made using 1/12 highly detailed factory model pictures as a basis.
Now it's quite rare stuff to find anywhere. Enjoy!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2007, 12:56:27 pm by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline flateric

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Some new stuff that I've received recently.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2007, 03:17:46 am by flateric »
"There are many disbelievers in
stealth, more than a few of them truly technically ignorant and proud of it." Sherm Mullin, Skunk Works

Offline archipeppe

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Great flateric!

I've always wondering about the look of A12's cockpit...